...

Now that is a ship that can carry TIE fighters on the game table with no problem.

Okay, so the point of your measurements were to figure out the size of the ship as a miniature as well as its in-universe size. I won't check your math (I'll trust it's good). The only caveat that I'll have is that the Rebels program doesn't seem to give a rat's rear end about proportionality. It's also ~2x the size currently mentioned as canon on the Wookiee, and ~3x that in the legends. But, who knows, it's all in flux and seemingly based on their desire to see it haul four TIE fighters into a combat situation, regardless of its earlier supposed size.

I'm not trying to rain on your work or the rightness of your findings. I suppose I'm just a little depressed about how little the owners of the intellectual property seem to care about doing their homework in order to establish continuity.

That said, maybe oneway and Captain Lackwit (an unlikely alliance) are on to something - maybe we're witnessing different models of in-universe craft based on a single style. That would definitely explain a lot of discrepancies. Maybe the Gozanti from TPM is the Gozanti-supermini and the Empire model is their Tahoe.

took me a minute - those are car references - I don't think it's impossible, but what are the precedents for that kind of reasoning? I can't think of another ship for which that was done for... with the exception of big triangles of different sizes that is.

Which The Empire just loves doing. Then there's the TIE series.

Hell all the Empire does is reshape their sh*t. "Make its wings pointier. Add wings in general. Give it another pair of domes. Make it longer. Make it squatty."

That's like all they ever do.

Okay, I give up, never mind what the miniature will look like next to the ones that exist,

I'll just wait until they update the canon tab of the article page with something that makes sense.

Accidentally? - No

"Accidentally"? -Yes. Especially if you also "accidentally" spill gasoline on the model and "accidentally" light the room on fire.

OK.

Is it bad sportsmanship to make your opponent read the text on his Predator upgrade card out word-for-word, then grab it off him before he finishes, read it for yourself, then tear it up into little pieces and eat them?

edit: hmmm, apparently "sn ay tee ch" is a word deserving of censorship. Who knew?

I'm going to be honest, the asterisks had me mystified for a second there.

Well there is a specific meaning to sn atch and its not a Guy Ritchie film.

Kind of like the Snapper lawn mower. That one kills me.

I'm going to be honest, the asterisks had me mystified for a second there.

You're not the only one. Has political correctness really gone that mad?

Well there is a specific meaning to sn atch and its not a Guy Ritchie film.

True, but it's certainly not the standard dictionary definition of the word...

Well if you ****** my phantom and ****, then ****** a ************* range ruler and a ******* EPT and stuck it right ******* in your ****** *********** ***, that wouldn't be very nice would it.

*suffers a critical hit*

Opponent: "What does the damage card say mate?"

Me: "It says scream an obscenity, flip the table over and storm off down the street..."

Haha, that's pretty accurate.

I'm not trying to rain on your work or the rightness of your findings. I suppose I'm just a little depressed about how little the owners of the intellectual property seem to care about doing their homework in order to establish continuity.

Well, my problem with the "canon" lengths in this particular case is that they seem to be indicative of a general trend in some of the EU references of just pulling some number out of thin air, slapping it down, and -- BAM! -- it's canon. Until the Rebels show previews, any view of the Gozanti cruiser was something far off in the background -- without anybody standing next to it, or any reference that would really help to clearly set an upper or lower end for how big that thing should be.

Here, Rebels finally puts it with something ... and, eyeballing it, does NOT look crazy like what would happen if they took, say, a YT-1300 and multiplied it three times just so they could squeeze a bunch of starfighters under it. If anything, the old "canon" length was patently bogus because ... just look at the size of the bridge! At 42m, that whole cockpit area would have been a tank-slit, and it would have been ONE pilot up at the front, stooped over, without room to stand up. It'd be a challenge to even fit the purported crew (as described in Age of Rebellion) on board at that size.

I've got a bit of a conundrum, since my earlier estimate putting it at 70m is patently wrong as shown by Gabe69Velasquez's references. If I were to go at 1:270 scale, I'd have a model about 18" long ... or, that is, much longer than the FFG CR90, or even the Collectors' Fleet Blockade Runner. (I really don't like shifting scales, so I was hoping I could just stick with 1:270, but having something BIGGER than a CR90 is going to be mighty suspicious -- especially if you look up the prices in Age of Rebellion for what it takes to pick up a Gozanti vs. the Corellian Corvette.) For my last game, I just used a cardstock cut-out as a stand-in for the Gozanti, while I try to figure out a new plan.

On the other hand, hey, if this thing needs to be 123m long to fit the Rebels references, the Gozanti just might be a contender for "Imperial answer to the CR90" after all, if FFG makes it in a comparable scale.

Anyway, I have trouble buying that the Rebels Gozanti is a "different type of Gozanti" where they just took the same exact shape and ballooned it out to 2x or 3x the size, and ALL THE FEATURES (slit-viewport on front included) end up scaling exactly the same way. I'd find it more plausible if, say, the "little" Gozanti had a big wide-open cockpit area more appropriate to a one-seater, and it's just in the big one that it becomes comparatively a slit. Maybe you want another Gozanti-shaped ship (for some reason), but certain functional parts have no reason to get bigger, because your CREW is not being magically enlarged in size along with it. (It's just that you are likely to have them increased in *number*.)

Standard disclaimers apply: I'm speculating about fiction. Also, I acknowledge that just about everything in Rebels TV has cartoony proportions (TIE fighters have stumpy wings and look more like the old Kenner toys proportion-wise), so taking literal measurements has its limits -- but I still think Gabe69Velasquez's attempt is the best so far for using visual evidence compared to established measurements (size of a TIE fighter) in order to try to figure out a likely model size, so thanks at least for going to that effort!

I do nott see the Boobies:...

Neither do I; me's disappoint.

I was referencing this, because it looks just like it:

Go watch yourselves some Space Dandy, boys. It's an excellent show.

...

Now that is a ship that can carry TIE fighters on the game table with no problem.

Okay, so the point of your measurements were to figure out the size of the ship as a miniature as well as its in-universe size. I won't check your math (I'll trust it's good). The only caveat that I'll have is that the Rebels program doesn't seem to give a rat's rear end about proportionality. It's also ~2x the size currently mentioned as canon on the Wookiee, and ~3x that in the legends. But, who knows, it's all in flux and seemingly based on their desire to see it haul four TIE fighters into a combat situation, regardless of its earlier supposed size.

I'm not trying to rain on your work or the rightness of your findings. I suppose I'm just a little depressed about how little the owners of the intellectual property seem to care about doing their homework in order to establish continuity.

That said, maybe oneway and Captain Lackwit (an unlikely alliance) are on to something - maybe we're witnessing different models of in-universe craft based on a single style. That would definitely explain a lot of discrepancies. Maybe the Gozanti from TPM is the Gozanti-supermini and the Empire model is their Tahoe.

took me a minute - those are car references - I don't think it's impossible, but what are the precedents for that kind of reasoning? I can't think of another ship for which that was done for... with the exception of big triangles of different sizes that is.

Four words: Klingon Bird of Prey

Ive developed a liking for Space Dandy. I like a lot of the old school animation references when they manage to sneak past the bad dubbing.

As for series of ships of different sizes with similiar aesthetics with the there are enough canon variants of the CR90 to make that feasible from the original to the light cruiser version in RotJ. Im preferring to ignore, despite its canonity, the version from RotS since i hate the proportions. But even with my prejudice it still counts. And the idea of a series of ships that are clearly built by the same people makes sense

a smaller Falcon equivalent of the Gozanti should probably have more of these proportions. larger engines in comparison to the hull and a larger cockpit window section. at least in my opinion

Standard disclaimers apply: I'm speculating about fiction. Also, I acknowledge that just about everything in Rebels TV has cartoony proportions (TIE fighters have stumpy wings and look more like the old Kenner toys proportion-wise), so taking literal measurements has its limits -- but I still think Gabe69Velasquez's attempt is the best so far for using visual evidence compared to established measurements (size of a TIE fighter) in order to try to figure out a likely model size, so thanks at least for going to that effort!

Huhm. That looks considerably larger than the wiki had said. I think Rebels is on the right track.

I don't think they are being consistent from movie to movie to TV show.

That was the first showing in Episode one, this is the second in Episode two,

and the J-type 327 Nubian is listed as 76 meters, but the hangars here seem about the same size:

That's actually an H-Type Nubian Yacht, measuring in at ~47m.

Once again, the new Gozanti could be an entirely different model, and if not... Eh. Who gives a ****?

The HWK was not the, "Wiki size" but it is most certainly the correct one. And the CR-90 is like, half as big as it should be.

I think it's been far too long since we've had a nice picture of this beastly-looking piece of Imperial-funded technology:

Designed for, built for and paid for by the glorious Imperial Navy.

Stolen by traitors, terrorists and criminal Rebel scum.

well here's droids next to one for scale, I kinda think it may have actually been 40 something meters long in the prequels but it sure didn't stay that way in the Clone Wars. I wish i could find screen grabs of the fight on top of a Black Sun one from one of the Darth Maul returns / Mandalore civil war arc.

Edit: WOW I actually found the concept art drawing for the Clone Wars Gozanti, click on it to see it full size. Look at the Tiny person next to it for scale, that is a BIG ship.

Another Edit: Since the LAAT is in the illustration for size reference and we know it's 17.4m long I can work out that the Gozanti is 93.7m long, 37.4m wide at the engines and 28.7 at the middle flat part. 4m wide at the nose which flairs out to 18.3m at the widest with those bits poking out the sides.

More maths: at 1/400 scale it'd be 23.4cm long at 1/450 20.8cm

Yup...big ship, huh lol

well here's droids next to one for scale, I kinda think it may have actually been 40 something meters long in the prequels but it sure didn't stay that way in the Clone Wars. I wish i could find screen grabs of the fight on top of a Black Sun one from one of the Darth Maul returns / Mandalore civil war arc.

Edit: WOW I actually found the concept art drawing for the Clone Wars Gozanti, click on it to see it full size. Look at the Tiny person next to it for scale, that is a BIG ship.

Another Edit: Since the LAAT is in the illustration for size reference and we know it's 17.4m long I can work out that the Gozanti is 93.7m long, 37.4m wide at the engines and 28.7 at the middle flat part. 4m wide at the nose which flairs out to 18.3m at the widest with those bits poking out the sides.

More maths: at 1/400 scale it'd be 23.4cm long at 1/450 20.8cm

Ladies and Lads, the proof we were looking for.

Thank the force for The Clone Wars' concept art. Also, considering "The Clone Wars" is 100% Canon , we just got our measurements from the strongest source possible.

Perfectly reasonable scale in comparison to the small ships and the other huge ships, in my opinion

Ladies and Lads, the proof we were looking for.

Thank the force for The Clone Wars' concept art. Also, considering "The Clone Wars" is 100% Canon , we just got our measurements from the strongest source possible.

Dude,

Take a pill or something and reflect.

How is it that the Clone Wars (a cartoon) is a stronger source than the movie? Does that mean that you feel the long-necked Imperial Star Destroyers in SW:Rebels outweigh the models used for Empire Strikes Back?

The only thing all this imagery that Gabe and Rob provided us with proves is that the scaling is entirely inconsistent. The only way I can see to square all the things that we see is to assume that the manufacturers have different designs with similar features, and we're seeing different ship types that look similar.

That interpretation allows FFG to make an Imperial huge ship based on the Gozanti any size they think is the most appropriate. I think they would be wise to follow the SW:Rebels model. I do hope that the LSG will at some point let us know how they're going to square all this and give us some clarification.

Ladies and Lads, the proof we were looking for.

Thank the force for The Clone Wars' concept art. Also, considering "The Clone Wars" is 100% Canon , we just got our measurements from the strongest source possible.

Dude,

Take a pill or something and reflect.

How is it that the Clone Wars (a cartoon) is a stronger source than the movie? Does that mean that you feel the long-necked Imperial Star Destroyers in SW:Rebels outweigh the models used for Empire Strikes Back?

The only thing all this imagery that Gabe and Rob provided us with proves is that the scaling is entirely inconsistent. The only way I can see to square all the things that we see is to assume that the manufacturers have different designs with similar features, and we're seeing different ship types that look similar.

That interpretation allows FFG to make an Imperial huge ship based on the Gozanti any size they think is the most appropriate. I think they would be wise to follow the SW:Rebels model. I do hope that the LSG will at some point let us know how they're going to square all this and give us some clarification.

Two words: Prominent Role.

the Gozanti used to just be a background ship. Things get fleshed out when they're used more, and sometimes they change size. That's alright.

And no, I didn't say that. Though oddly enough, aside from the character models themselves, you'll find that things in TCW are fairly well proportioned and decent looking. As for long necked star destroyers and wide strutted TIEs... Well, that's just artistic license at play, making it look like McQuarrie art.

Which is rad, for that. But not for the films.

As for this particular gozanti, it's generally good form to go with the most recently seen interpretation of size, rather than the described proportions. That's the issue FFG had with the HWK- instead of going with the book, they went with what they could see.

And considering the most recent and most well detailed and thoroughly planned model of the Gozanti was the one in TCW , that's the one we're getting, and it makes sense.

Well, size wise. It looks way different but eh. Looks consistent with TCW's variant in length.

Two words: Prominent Role.

the Gozanti used to just be a background ship. Things get fleshed out when they're used more, and sometimes they change size. That's alright.

And no, I didn't say that. Though oddly enough, aside from the character models themselves, you'll find that things in TCW are fairly well proportioned and decent looking. As for long necked star destroyers and wide strutted TIEs... Well, that's just artistic license at play, making it look like McQuarrie art.

I take your point on the prominent role, but I'll have to be convinced that TCW is fairly well proportioned, etc. I'll grant you that TCW seems a bit less cartoony than SW:R seems thus far, and I'm lamenting that. 'Till I'm more convinced, I'll live under the assumption that cartoons are the ones taking artistic license while the films show things as they are.

Okay, so I won't go quite so far, because I presume in the prequel films they're kind of just plugging CGI into the background.

I suppose that the main thing I really need to be convinced of is that all the scaling is not just arbitrary and plugging in. The design process seems to follow the needs of story plot and plugging in semi-plausible background material, and maintaining consistency is a distant third concern. That (presumed) fact drives me up the wall, but there it is.

Two words: Prominent Role.

the Gozanti used to just be a background ship. Things get fleshed out when they're used more, and sometimes they change size. That's alright.

And no, I didn't say that. Though oddly enough, aside from the character models themselves, you'll find that things in TCW are fairly well proportioned and decent looking. As for long necked star destroyers and wide strutted TIEs... Well, that's just artistic license at play, making it look like McQuarrie art.

I take your point on the prominent role, but I'll have to be convinced that TCW is fairly well proportioned, etc. I'll grant you that TCW seems a bit less cartoony than SW:R seems thus far, and I'm lamenting that. 'Till I'm more convinced, I'll live under the assumption that cartoons are the ones taking artistic license while the films show things as they are.

Okay, so I won't go quite so far, because I presume in the prequel films they're kind of just plugging CGI into the background.

I suppose that the main thing I really need to be convinced of is that all the scaling is not just arbitrary and plugging in. The design process seems to follow the needs of story plot and plugging in semi-plausible background material, and maintaining consistency is a distant third concern. That (presumed) fact drives me up the wall, but there it is.

I agree for the most part. I figured the gozanti was just a no-name ship back then that wasn't important, and for the most part I was right. Then they were like, "buh, we messed up. Disregard, do new~!"

For proportion arguments, take a look at the ETA-2 Starfighter.

Proportionally speaking, this all but ProtoTIEpe, is identical in both TCW and Episode III. Then there's always the Venator.

Which looks uber close to the film model. Finally, the LAAT/i.

The Clone Wars REALLY nailed the aesthetic when it came to starships. The only thing that honestly looked at all cartoonish were the characters. Any tech looked pretty real in star wars terms. As a result, I can generally buy into TCW giving accurate proportions for starships and other technology. Love it or hate it, it is at least an impressive looking show.