Whisper/AC,VI, sensors 40pt ( sensors is a maybe)

Echo/sensors,EU,OM 40pt

Dark curse/ stealth or hull 19pt

99 points

Thoughts?

Whisper/AC,VI, sensors 40pt ( sensors is a maybe)

Echo/sensors,EU,OM 40pt

Dark curse/ stealth or hull 19pt

99 points

Thoughts?

It won't last long enough by any means. And it has pretty weak offense, even with Phantoms.

If you're looking at a 3 ship build and it has no large ships it probably isn't going to work. Phantoms are good, but they aren't that good.

Echo needs Advanced cloak as well. He has too many actions and not enough ways to use them.

You're running 21 points in upgrades. You've got 11 total Hull. You've got 10 attack dice. That puts you at, slightly better than 3 squints, but without a single copy of push the limit to make up for the action loss.

If the Phantoms are doing what you think they will be doing then you have an opponents entire Squadron gunning straight for Dark Curse so he wont last that long.

But then expecting 2 Phantoms to deal with an entire Squadron unsupported, not gonna happen. Im running one, Both the named phantoms have Veteran Instincts and Advanced Cloak, thats it. The rest of the list is a Shuttle with Ion/Tactician to hinder the opponent and support their actions but tbh for the Empire you could get alot out of those points.

I was thinking about the TIE Phantom's myself and was wondering about

Echo - Advanced Cloak, Mara Jade

Whisper - Tactician

Shadow - Tactician

I'vebeen tweaking a list which in all cases had done very well, but my latest adjustment I found extremely good.

Only 3 upgrades, 4 ships.

Echo

Advanced cloak

Veteran instincts

Kath scarlet

Recon Specialist

Academy pilot x2

I've debated down grading kath to a lower skill bh,or Krassis, but been keeping her mostly for hey pilot skill. So far is been working well.

Only time I've lost with any of my echo lists were extremely bad moves on my part. Like forgot where kath was going and crashed into her.

Or didn't see an asteroid because I was sitting down when choosing my dial movement, and landed on it. (standing up gives you a good and better perspective of the board over siting down)

Whisper/AC,VI, sensors 40pt ( sensors is a maybe)

Echo/sensors,EU,OM 40pt

Dark curse/ stealth or hull 19pt

99 points

Thoughts?

Don't do it.

It won't last long enough by any means. And it has pretty weak offense, even with Phantoms.

If you're looking at a 3 ship build and it has no large ships it probably isn't going to work. Phantoms are good, but they aren't that good.

Echo needs Advanced cloak as well. He has too many actions and not enough ways to use them.

You're running 21 points in upgrades. You've got 11 total Hull. You've got 10 attack dice. That puts you at, slightly better than 3 squints, but without a single copy of push the limit to make up for the action loss.

I'm a big three amigos player, hull/ shields don't matter worth a crap if you stay out of firing arcs. Yes I know they make for long games.

Whisper/AC,VI, sensors 40pt ( sensors is a maybe)

Echo/sensors,EU,OM 40pt

Dark curse/ stealth or hull 19pt

99 points

Thoughts?

Don't do it.

It won't last long enough by any means. And it has pretty weak offense, even with Phantoms.

If you're looking at a 3 ship build and it has no large ships it probably isn't going to work. Phantoms are good, but they aren't that good.

Echo needs Advanced cloak as well. He has too many actions and not enough ways to use them.

You're running 21 points in upgrades. You've got 11 total Hull. You've got 10 attack dice. That puts you at, slightly better than 3 squints, but without a single copy of push the limit to make up for the action loss.

I'm a big three amigos player, hull/ shields don't matter worth a crap if you stay out of firing arcs. Yes I know they make for long games.

More ships is always better, but in all fairness I did a lot better against a Lando, wedge, rookie build then I thought.

Echo,Firespray tie fighter

Pretty sure I didn't lose a ship that game

I still like to know how a guy won a tournament with just Han solo and an awing lol

Anyone think the delta defender could be a stand in for the firespray?

The Metagame is about to change - and you've got guys like Aminar saying that the old way of doing things is always the best way, and then you've got guys like Ribann saying that it simply doesn't work anymore and the Phantom is simply the most potent offensive power out there that arc dodges better than Soontir Fel.

Personally? I think that 3 ship builds are going to be alot more viable - but i'd have to say that you should expect PS 1/2 pilots for a while, so enjoy upgrades like Flight Instructor (which would be amazing on Phantoms) and Predator, which exploit the weaknesses. As to your list - i would highly suggest you give Echo ACD...that re-cloak is gunna be more vital than a boost here and there, cause if you get caught with your cloak down you're dead. I'd also look into if you were able to get Flight Instructor in - cause on ships with more than 1 agility, it drastically increases survivability when you're re-rolling your blanks/focus (when you're out).

The Metagame is about to change - and you've got guys like Aminar saying that the old way of doing things is always the best way, and then you've got guys like Ribann saying that it simply doesn't work anymore and the Phantom is simply the most potent offensive power out there that arc dodges better than Soontir Fel.

Personally? I think that 3 ship builds are going to be alot more viable - but i'd have to say that you should expect PS 1/2 pilots for a while, so enjoy upgrades like Flight Instructor (which would be amazing on Phantoms) and Predator, which exploit the weaknesses. As to your list - i would highly suggest you give Echo ACD...that re-cloak is gunna be more vital than a boost here and there, cause if you get caught with your cloak down you're dead. I'd also look into if you were able to get Flight Instructor in - cause on ships with more than 1 agility, it drastically increases survivability when you're re-rolling your blanks/focus (when you're out).

The basic mechanics of the game have not changed. The fact more Pilot skill is needed does not automatically going to mean less ships suddenly got more viable. It will still lose to any competent build from the old meta, which may or may not lose to Phantoms.

3 Ship builds can't take losing a ship early. You can't avoid a quality opponents opening fire at all reliably, even with a Phantom. Plan for that. Build for that. You want a good Phantom build, make the other 2/3rds of your force more immediatly threatening than your Phantom, then make them pick one or the other and butcher them for it. Don't just throw together a list of 3 good ships and hope they get lucky. Play smart. Build smart. 3 Ship builds with fragile ships are not smart. The mechanics of the game make them bad.

The Metagame is about to change - and you've got guys like Aminar saying that the old way of doing things is always the best way, and then you've got guys like Ribann saying that it simply doesn't work anymore and the Phantom is simply the most potent offensive power out there that arc dodges better than Soontir Fel.

Personally? I think that 3 ship builds are going to be alot more viable - but i'd have to say that you should expect PS 1/2 pilots for a while, so enjoy upgrades like Flight Instructor (which would be amazing on Phantoms) and Predator, which exploit the weaknesses. As to your list - i would highly suggest you give Echo ACD...that re-cloak is gunna be more vital than a boost here and there, cause if you get caught with your cloak down you're dead. I'd also look into if you were able to get Flight Instructor in - cause on ships with more than 1 agility, it drastically increases survivability when you're re-rolling your blanks/focus (when you're out).

I agree for Echo, but for the first time out the ability to boost into a decloaking for another boost into a k turn is sweet lol.

I am thinking the new Impies are kind of meat to be lone wolves with a heap of Ties all over.

I am not knocking your list, but rather commenting on an interesting trend which these nice new 30+ point base cost ships seem to be setting in our Meta.

I mean sure you can do a trio of doom , but I think the new kids are meant to be single ship leader types...dunno.

Don't just throw together a list of 3 good ships and hope they get lucky. Play smart. Build smart. 3 Ship builds with fragile ships are not smart. The mechanics of the game make them bad.

I would agree with pretty much everything you have said. The phantom does not nullify previously good lists - however - it drastically undermines previous tactics, such as formation flying and low ps rebel builds, considering how easily they can avoid arcs when need be. This point you have made however is very true, Three Amigos will not easily win any game, but they can. If you build any list with 3 ships and get lucky they will win. If you are a smart builder you will be able to win most any game (50/50 chance. Not assured, but possible).

Here's the thing. Aminar likes certainties over probabilities. So he's farrrrrrr more willing to take a Decimator over a Firespray (not necessarily but just for comparison) because dice can fail you and maneuverability can be negated or expected...This is absolutely not a bad thing, but this is not how most imperial game mechanics work - which is on dice potency. I would completely suggest that you try out your list (and different variations of it), get to know the phantom ( and perhaps the defender), and if you enjoy them, this will be a potent list - because no matter how you place it - a 7 PS phantom is going to really cause alot of trouble to 4 ship rebel builds.

I've only tried it out as proxy twice, but so far this has been successful:

3x Shadow Squadron each w/ Adv. Cloaking and FCS

Any thoughts on this? It will suffer certainly against higher pilot skill builds, especially the dual Falcon. It'll be tricky, but loads of fun and I hope fairly strong.

Don't just throw together a list of 3 good ships and hope they get lucky. Play smart. Build smart. 3 Ship builds with fragile ships are not smart. The mechanics of the game make them bad.

I would agree with pretty much everything you have said. The phantom does not nullify previously good lists - however - it drastically undermines previous tactics, such as formation flying and low ps rebel builds, considering how easily they can avoid arcs when need be. This point you have made however is very true, Three Amigos will not easily win any game, but they can. If you build any list with 3 ships and get lucky they will win. If you are a smart builder you will be able to win most any game (50/50 chance. Not assured, but possible).

Here's the thing. Aminar likes certainties over probabilities. So he's farrrrrrr more willing to take a Decimator over a Firespray (not necessarily but just for comparison) because dice can fail you and maneuverability can be negated or expected...This is absolutely not a bad thing, but this is not how most imperial game mechanics work - which is on dice potency. I would completely suggest that you try out your list (and different variations of it), get to know the phantom ( and perhaps the defender), and if you enjoy them, this will be a potent list - because no matter how you place it - a 7 PS phantom is going to really cause alot of trouble to 4 ship rebel builds.

I recently faced an extremely well-played 3-ship Phantom build and I got smashed. The list featured:

Whisper (VI, ACD, FCS)
Echo (VI, ACD)
Turr Phennir (VI)

Unfortynately, I had no turrets. With him flying last it was super hard to see him - I took down Whisper, eventually, but I did not fire a shot at Echo the whole game.

You can say that Han list would smash it - but I saw this list being flown against double Store Champion and vice-Regional Champion who was flying Wedge/Han combo. The Imperials focused fire on YT while trying to avoid Wedge's fire arc and they did splendid. Not a single ship was lost on imperial side.

So, with plenty of experience and practise, 3 ship build may be extremely effective, to the point of calling it monster

I recently faced an extremely well-played 3-ship Phantom build and I got smashed. The list featured:

Whisper (VI, ACD, FCS)

Echo (VI, ACD)

Turr Phennir (VI)

Unfortynately, I had no turrets. With him flying last it was super hard to see him - I took down Whisper, eventually, but I did not fire a shot at Echo the whole game.

You can say that Han list would smash it - but I saw this list being flown against double Store Champion and vice-Regional Champion who was flying Wedge/Han combo. The Imperials focused fire on YT while trying to avoid Wedge's fire arc and they did splendid. Not a single ship was lost on imperial side.

So, with plenty of experience and practise, 3 ship build may be extremely effective, to the point of calling it monster

I love it , reminds me of my 7 riptide unbound list .