Commander is a real killer at the moment. I think I've spent more money collecting cards for EDH these past few years than I ever have on standard. I count myself a little lucky, I picked up a Polluted Delta back when they were only $30. Now I'm wishing I'd some the same when Imperial Recruiter was only eighty.

Have you seen the new sealed multiplayer set, Conspiracy? It's supposed to be a lot of fun to draft, and there really aren't any money cards. I picked up all the singles I wanted from the set for under ten bucks, including a badass alternate art Rout featuring Elesh Norn.

My FLGS is also trying to lure me back into the fold by saying that my old cards will be usable in Commander. Thus far, I've been able to resist looking up what it is.

Which does remind me that I've got a suitcase with thousands of old cards, just waiting to be resorted.

It's better than where it started, that's for sure.

You just can't let it go, can you? Are you still upset? Do tell...

Oh, the irony.

Moving on...

My FLGS is also trying to lure me back into the fold by saying that my old cards will be usable in Commander. Thus far, I've been able to resist looking up what it is.

Which does remind me that I've got a suitcase with thousands of old cards, just waiting to be resorted.

It's a lot of fun. Just look it up, or I can briefly explain it to you. What's the worst that could happen?

I am just having fun with ya. Caw-Blade was terrible for an entire season. I did manage to trade my cardboard addiction to plastic though. This thread reminds me of so many of the forum topics from Magic. This deck or card is broken, WOC please fix it! We will all find out very shortly where the new meta is by August 15th the first flight of nationals. Everything will be falling into place by then and we will see how much impact the Phantom has. Due to it's popularity the phantom will be put through the gauntlet very fast.

It's a lot of fun. Just look it up, or I can briefly explain it to you. What's the worst that could happen?

Thanks for the offer, I'll look it up soon. Don't have much spare time at the moment anyway. The worst that could happen? In idle moments I can still build decks using Web of Inertia, Lost in Thought, a bunch of Advocates and Scalpelexis. Without seeing cards. .

I must not feed that hunger. .

Thanks for the offer, I'll look it up soon. Don't have much spare time at the moment anyway. The worst that could happen? In idle moments I can still build decks using Web of Inertia, Lost in Thought, a bunch of Advocates and Scalpelexis. Without seeing cards. .

I must not feed that hunger. .

Well, it's a singleton format, so there's only so much deck building you can do along those lines.

It was actually a home brew format before it got so popular that WotC decided to co-opt it. Here's the original resource page for it:

http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

There's a couple ways to play it, depending on how competitive you want to be. Generally, though, it's a very casual format, which is one of the reasons why I got into it in the first place.

/Thread derailment completed

Nope, no unpopular choice. Rebel or imp is in our blood and we don't touch the opposite side no matter how good it's perceived to be. FFG simply makes models and templates for us we make sure it feels like Star Wars. Never played any hobby game without heavy house rules, company game books have always been a suggestion or starting point. Surprised that's such a shock. I would think most groups do that to make the game flavor fit.

When was the last phantom comment in this topic? Can't be doing with trawling through the MTG chat

For what it's worth I don't believe 4 red to be a mistake, this is a very unforgiving ship to fly, you can mitigate so much with upgrades but you are creating a points sink, if you're a good pilot then yeah sure you can do well with it, if not you're gonna get owned. I like the ship and enjoyed playing with it at immidar and against my friends in casual games.

IMHO the key to beating it is anticipating your opponent and forcing them to do something they didn't want to, trapping it in its cloak and stress!! Stress is their bane

Nope, no unpopular choice. Rebel or imp is in our blood and we don't touch the opposite side no matter how good it's perceived to be. FFG simply makes models and templates for us we make sure it feels like Star Wars. Never played any hobby game without heavy house rules, company game books have always been a suggestion or starting point. Surprised that's such a shock. I would think most groups do that to make the game flavor fit.

Changing the rules could /would break the Gabe.

It sounds like to me you guys heavily favor one side over another.

When I play a game I like to play fair with my friends.

I really don't see how it is fair, but to each his own. You can play how your want, but sounds really one side.

So long as you don't get new people and introduce then with your rules over the ffg rules which would be misleading imo.

It's better than where it started, that's for sure.

You just can't let it go, can you? Are you still upset? Do tell...

Given you suddenly jumped in to take jabs at Waaagh the moment he appears when he's talking about a complete tangent, I think your statement's a little... backwards?

What is this thread?

IMHO the key to beating it is anticipating your opponent and forcing them to do something they didn't want to

Nope, no unpopular choice. Rebel or imp is in our blood and we don't touch the opposite side no matter how good it's perceived to be. FFG simply makes models and templates for us we make sure it feels like Star Wars. Never played any hobby game without heavy house rules, company game books have always been a suggestion or starting point. Surprised that's such a shock. I would think most groups do that to make the game flavor fit.

I think this thread realised long ago that the Phantom is good, but not broken. It's incredibly fun, and rips the metagame a new one, but given the way it overcosted pilot skill I can't complain. They have more to do to fix pilot skill, but we're getting there.

This isn't D&D. It isn't an RPG, it's a strategy game. A very well balanced and thematic strategy game that is incredibly fun in its own right.

The part about the game being balanced is somewhat debatable. The top 4 PILOTS see 25% more use than the bottom 7 out of 12 SHIPS combined!

There are also quite a few skills and abilities that are fairly useless. House Rules are very good for newbies in casual games, otherwise they get heavily punished for choosing something that's overcosted. It's also nice to be able to use most of the ships / abilities in the game and not feel like you're handicapping yourself.

Snippet from the Regionals results, as of Week 6:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/?p=1066846

This isn't D&D. It isn't an RPG, it's a strategy game. A very well balanced and thematic strategy game that is incredibly fun in its own right.

The part about the game being balanced is somewhat debatable. The top 4 PILOTS see 25% more use than the bottom 7 out of 12 SHIPS combined!

There are also quite a few skills and abilities that are fairly useless. House Rules are very good for newbies in casual games, otherwise they get heavily punished for choosing something that's overcosted. It's also nice to be able to use most of the ships / abilities in the game and not feel like you're handicapping yourself.

Snippet from the Regionals results, as of Week 6:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/?p=1066846

General Point Distribution

top 3 ships 61.59%

Top 6 ships 91.58%

bottom 3 ships 1.04%

Overall ship usage

• TIE Fighter 32.56%
• X-wing 15.12%
• TIE Interceptor 13.92%
• B-wing 12.55%
• YT-1300 10.04%
• Firespray 7.39%
• Lambda Shuttle 3.54%
• Y-wing 2.13%
• TIE Bomber 1.71%
• HWK-290 0.71%
• A-wing 0.33%
• TIE Advanced 0.00%

Named / Non-named statistics

Non-named ship points 56.2%

Named ship points (all) 43.8%

Named ship points (Pilots 1-4) 19.7% <------

% of Imperial points spent on named pilots 38.1%

% of Rebel points spent on named pilots 52.2%

In regards to house rules helping new players. I have to disagree. It builds up bad habits and rules misunderstandings that are hard to unlearn and can leave a new player who decides to pack off to their first tournament confused and disheartened more than getting their butt handed to them by more experienced players. House rules can be used to make bad things good after everyone involved understands why things are bad to begin with.

Tournament use is skewed by how much players copy tournament winners. That's half the reason the Tie metashredder was introducted.

This isn't D&D. It isn't an RPG, it's a strategy game. A very well balanced and thematic strategy game that is incredibly fun in its own right.

The part about the game being balanced is somewhat debatable. The top 4 PILOTS see 25% more use than the bottom 7 out of 12 SHIPS combined!

There are also quite a few skills and abilities that are fairly useless. House Rules are very good for newbies in casual games, otherwise they get heavily punished for choosing something that's overcosted. It's also nice to be able to use most of the ships / abilities in the game and not feel like you're handicapping yourself.

Snippet from the Regionals results, as of Week 6:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/?p=1066846

General Point Distribution

top 3 ships 61.59%

Top 6 ships 91.58%

bottom 3 ships 1.04%

Overall ship usage

• TIE Fighter 32.56%
• X-wing 15.12%
• TIE Interceptor 13.92%
• B-wing 12.55%
• YT-1300 10.04%
• Firespray 7.39%
• Lambda Shuttle 3.54%
• Y-wing 2.13%
• TIE Bomber 1.71%
• HWK-290 0.71%
• A-wing 0.33%
• TIE Advanced 0.00%

Named / Non-named statistics

Non-named ship points 56.2%

Named ship points (all) 43.8%

Named ship points (Pilots 1-4) 19.7% <------

% of Imperial points spent on named pilots 38.1%

% of Rebel points spent on named pilots 52.2%

Not everything has to be useful for a game to be balanced. Those usage stats are heavily colored by player perceptions. The Advanced and A-wing aside every ship on that list is more than capable of appearing and winning in competitive lists. The A-wing still is, but post Chaardan people will use it more. I've basically held off on using it until then. Many others have too. The advanced is regrettable, and needs some help, but it far from breaks the game.

In regards to house rules helping new players. I have to disagree. It builds up bad habits and rules misunderstandings that are hard to unlearn and can leave a new player who decides to pack off to their first tournament confused and disheartened more than getting their butt handed to them by more experienced players. House rules can be used to make bad things good after everyone involved understands why things are bad to begin with.

So flying TIE Advanced, turretless Y-wings in a 4 ship list (or any list once Z-95s / Refit come out), or using Expose would be considered bad habits? These are just a few examples of the top of my head.

Also, the A-wing has a jousting efficiency of ~85%, which is closer to the TIE Advanced (~81%) than the X-wing (~92%). The A-wing dial and boost simply cannot make up for the point deficit without Refit. Likewise, the Y-wing jousts at ~89% sans Ion Cannon Turret. How many Y-wings do you see without an Ion Cannon Turret competitively?

What rule misunderstandings would be hard to relearn? If you're going to a tournament, and you're using a card that has been clearly House Ruled, then read the original rules. How hard is that? The reason why the original card is useless is going to be even more obvious by comparing the two, because the House Ruled version will actually be balanced, so you'll clearly be able to see how the original is lacking. For example:

• TIE Advanced only modification: Equip a free FCS. Cost: -1 for Vader, -2 for all others.
• Expose: At the end of the text add "Perform a free action."

You can look at those house rules and immediately recognize that:

• The TIE Advanced is overcosted and lacks firepower
• Expose is bad because you lose your action

90% of the people I play with are never going to go play in a tournament. It's all just casual games. And those couple that might be interested in going to a tournament are MORE than intelligent enough that they could figure out the balance differences. It's a strategy game. You have to play smart to do well competitively.

Tournament use is skewed by how much players copy tournament winners. That's half the reason the Tie metashredder was introducted.

1. Interceptors were barely used in Store Championships (~4%), so their sudden use, non-Aces Alpha Squadron Pilots particularly, cannot be explained by copycats. If there is a better squad, then the system strongly encourages you to find it. The smartest players are rewarded, not the ones that follow the herd. (Unless we're talking about Albino Space Bovines, but I digress.... )
2. And the other half... or three quarters.... or 90%.... is that TIE Fighters supported by Howlrunner have a jousting efficiency of 117% relative to a naked TIE Fighter at 100%. TIE Swarms have always been powerful, from wave 1. The closest ship the Rebels have is the B-wing, at around 97%, almost as good as a naked TIE Fighter. Incidentally, if you look at non-named pilot usage, B-wings are clearly #2 behind TIE Fighters. In a 100 point squad Howlrunner + 6 TIEs is basically equivalent to having a full extra naked TIE Fighter, at least until Howlrunner bites the dust. Its extremely difficult to withstand firepower of that magnitude.

Yes turretless Y-wings are a bad habit. It should take about a game and a half to learn that 3 dice is way more accurate than 2. And any competent teacher(whoever is making the house rules) can explain why bare 2 dice ships suck.

Many players get taught House Rules off the bat, and in doing so never learn to deal with real rules. Most people who houserule things don't explain the difference specifically because most new players would then prefer to learn the real rules. Always teach the real rules and thw strategy behind the game first. Foster an understanding of list building, and the game. Don't just let newbies build whatever and trial and error what works. It slows the learning process and will often leave them feeling stupid or misled later.

The rise in squints has a direct correlation with the release of the aces pack. New things always see an upswing in use. Obviously some people saw more from the aces pack than I do.

Yes turretless Y-wings are a bad habit. It should take about a game and a half to learn that 3 dice is way more accurate than 2. And any competent teacher(whoever is making the house rules) can explain why bare 2 dice ships suck.

Using that logic you should never use TIE Fighters.

Cost is the Great Equalizer, and is far more important than absolute performance.

Edit:

1. From direct experience, casual players don't want to get lectured for too long on game strategy, and get told what they can and cannot build. They want to fly ships and blow stuff up. You are imposing a very narrow view on the reality of a wide range of individuals' reactions and preferences.
2. Check the non named stats again. The majority of new Interceptor points are from Alpha Squadron Pilots mixed into TIE swarms. As stated above, Aces can't explain that.

Yes turretless Y-wings are a bad habit. It should take about a game and a half to learn that 3 dice is way more accurate than 2. And any competent teacher(whoever is making the house rules) can explain why bare 2 dice ships suck.

Using that logic you should never use TIE Fighters.

Cost is the Great Equalizer, and is far more important than absolute performance.

That's where the Teacher part comes in. That doesn't change the fact teaching players with houserules is bad form, and skews their understanding of the game.

Yes turretless Y-wings are a bad habit. It should take about a game and a half to learn that 3 dice is way more accurate than 2. And any competent teacher(whoever is making the house rules) can explain why bare 2 dice ships suck.

Using that logic you should never use TIE Fighters.

Cost is the Great Equalizer, and is far more important than absolute performance.

That's where the Teacher part comes in. That doesn't change the fact teaching players with houserules is bad form, and skews their understanding of the game.

I agree with Aminar.

I guess I just don't understand why you would houserule anything.

Maybe I don't play enough games at the kitchen table, but it seems silly to modify the game so you can play it differently than everyone else.

You are severely handicapping a new player by not teaching them the actual ruleset.

The only non-standard rule we've ever allowed locally is handicapping experienced players who get matched to pure newbies. Giving someone an 80 point maximum can really even the odds.

That's where the Teacher part comes in.

I'm not going to go and explain the Lanchesters / probability math behind why a turretless Y-wing is worth 16 points, not 18 points, just to set up a casual game. Or likewise how 12 point TIE Fighters or 15 point Refit A-wings are a spectacular value despite being "inaccurate" 2 attack ships. And again, you presume that it is your job to impart all your knowledge on people before they even play a single game, most people I know would much rather just get into the action.

What rule misunderstandings would be hard to relearn? If you're going to a tournament, and you're using a card that has been clearly House Ruled, then read the original rules. How hard is that? The reason why the original card is useless is going to be even more obvious by comparing the two, because the House Ruled version will actually be balanced, so you'll clearly be able to see how the original is lacking. For example:

• TIE Advanced only modification: Equip a free FCS. Cost: -1 for Vader, -2 for all others.
• Expose: At the end of the text add "Perform a free action."

You can look at those house rules and immediately recognize that:

• The TIE Advanced is overcosted and lacks firepower
• Expose is bad because you lose your action

90% of the people I play with are never going to go play in a tournament. It's all just casual games. And those couple that might be interested in going to a tournament are MORE than intelligent enough that they could figure out the balance differences. It's a strategy game. You have to play smart to do well competitively.

TL; DR: It's casual games, in my own house, with people that are never going to play competitively. So why do you care?

1. Check the non named stats again. The majority of new Interceptor points are from Alpha Squadron Pilots mixed into TIE swarms. As stated above, Aces can't explain that.

Well, Aces can explain it somewhat in that it brought the Interceptor more to the foreground and led to a new appreciation of the ship and its capabilities itself whereas it may previously have been dismissed as too much of a glass cannon. Aces brought new toys, new toys were played with and experience was gained.

So why do you care?

I think it's because in the initial post on houseruling, it was worded as if FFG did the wrong thing and houserules were the only way to play the game right.

People can get rather defensive if they think they're being told their way of fun is wrong, as I'm sure you've noticed.

Yes turretless Y-wings are a bad habit. It should take about a game and a half to learn that 3 dice is way more accurate than 2. And any competent teacher(whoever is making the house rules) can explain why bare 2 dice ships suck.

Using that logic you should never use TIE Fighters.

Cost is the Great Equalizer, and is far more important than absolute performance.

Edit:

Always teach the real rules and thw strategy behind the game first. Foster an understanding of list building, and the game. Don't just let newbies build whatever and trial and error what works.

The rise in squints has a direct correlation with the release of the aces pack. New things always see an upswing in use. Obviously some people saw more from the aces pack than I do.

• From direct experience, casual players don't want to get lectured for too long on game strategy, and get told what they can and cannot build. They want to fly ships and blow stuff up. You are imposing a very narrow view on the reality of a wide range of individuals' reactions and preferences.
• Check the non named stats again. The majority of new Interceptor points are from Alpha Squadron Pilots mixed into TIE swarms. As stated above, Aces can't explain that.

Imo is fine too play However you want.

A house ruling that says "who ever house you play at had to supply the token"

That's one thing but having host rules that actually change stats,and abilities on ships is going a little far.

But hey your house your rules.

That is all fine, but if new players come into the game it would really bug me if they were taught with the broken rules.

This game is awesome, and teaching a new player broken rules may confuse them, and possibly turn them off.

Plus if they decide to play with others and then try to do a barrel roll with a Falcon with out expert handling, or rolling with extra defense dice because that is their "house rule" could be confusing, embarrassing, and frustrating.

It is very easy to forget sometimes If you play 10-20-50 games where you roll 4 attack with an X wing, and 4 evade for example at range 2-3, your will do the same in competitive.

I know after flying ties for a long time, switching to xwings I found myself rolling three evades for the xwing just because I was doing so for so long with the ties.

Same will apply to someone making up one sided house rules that literally breaks the game.

I don't care so long as they keep it in their house.

Just so long as that is where it stays,and if they teach a new player, I hope they teach them the real rules

Something tells me though that they probably don't and just push the broken rules onto the new player with a very vague and one sided argument as to why the change. Convincing the new player the broken rule is now better.

Without realizing how broken it is, until someday they go to an event and told how they are doing everything wrong.

I realy hope that does not happen but ya never know