But the Falcon CAN get a barrel roll, with Expert Handling.

And Rebels always having heavier fire, where does it say that?

(Star Destroyers says hi by the way!)

Sorry - but the above seems like wish-listing to me and isn't based on actual lore.

Again, please wait until the Phantom has been tested thoroughly before jumping to conclusions.

So here is the break down of a patter I see with primary attacks. 1 laser cannon = 1 attack (HWK)

2 laser cannons = 2 attack (Tie Fighter, Tie Advanced, Tie Bomber, A-Wing, Z-95)

3-4 laser cannons = 3 attack (X-Wing, B-Wing, Tie Interceptor, Tie Defender, E-Wing)

5+ laser cannons = 4 attack (Tie Phantom)

Not the case. You're not accounting for the size or power of those guns. Canonically, the phantom doesn't outgun the defender. In the only other source where it's mechanically represented (Forces of Corruption) it's outgunned by the Interceptor. The phantom has 4 attack primarily mechanically, but thematically it's because of the reasons stated in the quote below.

Well if you really want to make a case as to why it has 4 attack dice over the other ships they only have 3, I'd say it's for its cloaking ability.

The thing comes out of no where. It surprises who ever is going after. Maybe that's the reason why the four dice.

Sneak attack.

If you follow the massive quote train up to the top, one of the first things I said. Someone then disputed it, saying it was because it outguns every other ship.

blasphemous

That's a pretty goddamn extreme stance.

On a more serious note, that is a pretty extreme word to be throwing around in what's a boardgame context.

You don't see to many lists that run all 9 ps, Usually there is one or two, and in that case your not getting focus fired.

Plus with the manueverability of the Phantom those high ps still have to catch you which makes it harder

Getting caught is the game.

But reliance on VI as the only thing keeping you alive is hopping along on a straw crutch. Positioning is going to be more important, as is flexibility in formation flying. People will get more used to the ship and get a feel for the ending positions with Intelligence Agent and Navigator setting up blockades in likely spots. They will know where your maneuver is taking you and unless you are flying Echo your decloaks are going to be predictable (not speaking in absolutes, but in general evolvement of the playing field, the Phantom flyer will evolve as well of course), VI notwithstanding.

Better to get ahead of the pack. .

There are other ways to get high PS without resorting to VI so that you can even lift a Sigma to vader levels. I'm looking forward to trying out two sigma's with FCS, IA and ACD paired with Vader with Decoy and EU. It's going to be a tough list to learn to fly correctly, if it works at all, but the payoff should be high in flexibility.

I dont think you have read any of my posts in this thread obviously.Your saying some of the things I've said. Please point out where I said I depend on Veteran Instincts. I don't depend on if, but have seen it help. I'm sure many others here would agree. Though not needed, is helpful

I know how to use the Phantom.

I don't rely on Veteran Instincts. I rely on its maneuverability,and it's unpredictability. However if you want to user it and you don't know what your flying against, VI may become a waste, or not, but I prefer to take that gamble and put it on because more times than not it had paid off..Yout can't argue that with me because I've seen it and if I not had it then 2-3 ships may have fired before echo,possibly Changing the out come off the game

If I'm flying a named Phantom having that extra ps can mean mean the matter of life and death.

Veteran instincts is only a couple of points

Is a lot easier than trying to fly vader with one and rely on swarm tactics. With the Phantom cloak and decloaking it would be tricky keeping vader in range.

I also user my phantom to flank. So again the veterans instincts can come in handy.

If my opponent decides to change coarse and cut off the Phantom there are times I get to shoot before he does.

I've killed dutch before he got to fire on more than one occasion. Where as if I had the same ps he would have fired and probably ioned me.

So please tell me how that's a waste?

The had been more than one occasion,

Lando was a huge one and firing before him was extremely helpful.

I don't think veteran instincts is required 100% of the time, but if you can shoot asap,and recloak with advanced cloak, puts you at an advantage.

Echo can be very unpredictable when flying against. I always think where is my opponent going to expect me to move and then move somewhere else.

Throws them way off.

If I do make a wrong move or my opponent makes a good move, having that two higher ps has made a difference.

I also don't have any other ship escorting it, and good luck trying to get swarm tactics on echo

Don't know how it works mechanically. But it's blasphemous to the game thematically and ruins my immersion. Rebel ships have heavier fire. There's going to be a house rule among my friends that either takes a hit die away from it or rebel ships get +1.

This game is very well made and my favorite mechanics, but every once in while there's a mechanics decision that really affects the immersion. Like the falcon not getting a barrel roll, yeah that was house ruled.

I really don't know if your joking or not.

I have a feeling your serious.

Sorry but all I can say is I'd be surprised if anyone would play at your house if those are the type of house rules you have in place.

So anyone flying a Falcon can do a barrel roll without equipping expert handling,and if someone wants to use a Phantom you either subtract an attack dice, or after a defender dice?

I don't think I'd want to know what other house rules you have in place.

It's one thing to make subtle changes but when you're changing huge part of the game. Sounds to me your just making it easier for some and harder for others

Sorry but that sounds so broken.

You do realize that the rebels were the under dogs and always out manned and out gunned

Decoy and Vader with Vet Instincts could be a fun combo. I think I'd prefer to nab PS 10 off of Howlrunner though.

It's true that maneuverability is the key with the Phantom, but so is being able to go last and maximize damage. Veteran Instincts is less of a crutch than a failsafe. If you don't need it, say against the majority of lists that may not have a PS8 or 9 to match you, sure, it's a waste of all of 1 point. Against the elites, it's worth it every time. To be honest, when I have run Whisper, there's at least a 2 point tax: 1 for VI and at least 1 to stay at 99 (maybe go down to 98) to maintain Initiative. It's been worth it every time and rarely do I find myself wishing I had another EPT in place of VI, though certainly Predator or Outmaneuver would be great to have.

An old magic adage is

If you need one card to make another card good, it's a bad card.

An old magic adage is

If you need one card to make another card good, it's a bad card.

Magic relies on getting the cards you need via psuedo random means. This game puts all the cards on the table right away.

An old Jerry Maguire adage is
You complete me.

An old magic adage is

If you need one card to make another card good, it's a bad card.

Edit:

Why must there always be someone who tries to compare this game to magic. It's like comparing an apple to a car

An old magic adage is

If you need one card to make another card good, it's a bad card.

"says Channel to FireBall"

That does not apply to this game at all.

Yeah, the reason that's true in MtG is because you can't ever count on getting both cards. So any time you have to have 2+ cards you run the risk of missing 1 for the whole game.

That doesn't apply to X-Wing however, because you start off with every card, so there's zero chance of not getting the combo.

Now if you had something that relied on a given crit... Then the concept would apply.

Thematically the Phantom represents a more precisely targetted attack rather than what I would imagine would be a spray and pray of normal dogfighting.

The comments concerning the Millennium Falcon are Rubbish, you bought a base YT1300 with Han as pilot ok pay the cost, want extra abilities to make it like the movies, (Luke as Gunner, Lando flying from RotJ) pay the cost, want to fly the Falcon titles, ok then pay the cost.

Total nonsense, might as well just hold the ship in your hand while going pew pew rather than playing a balanced game. (Try the new Age of Rebellion game more the style you are talking!)

Don't know how it works mechanically. But it's blasphemous to the game thematically and ruins my immersion. Rebel ships have heavier fire. There's going to be a house rule among my friends that either takes a hit die away from it or rebel ships get +1.

This game is very well made and my favorite mechanics, but every once in while there's a mechanics decision that really affects the immersion. Like the falcon not getting a barrel roll, yeah that was house ruled.

WHUT?

Decoy and Vader with Vet Instincts could be a fun combo. I think I'd prefer to nab PS 10 off of Howlrunner though.

I prefer Decoy on the high PS (and Vader has enough actions to tank himself up and only 2 attack, so going last isn't going to hurt as much) because if you lose either the Decoy ship or the high PS the other half isn't as good, while if you use Decoy to push someone into high PS you can at least switch to one of several ships to push up.

Decoy and Vader with Vet Instincts could be a fun combo. I think I'd prefer to nab PS 10 off of Howlrunner though.

I prefer Decoy on the high PS (and Vader has enough actions to tank himself up and only 2 attack, so going last isn't going to hurt as much) because if you lose either the Decoy ship or the high PS the other half isn't as good, while if you use Decoy to push someone into high PS you can at least switch to one of several ships to push up.

Typically I would too. But we're looking more at nabbing A PS modded past normal levels by Vet Instincts. At PS10 only a handful of ships who also have Vet Instincts can shoot before your Phantom.

Nah, I'm looking forward to using 2 Sigma's with ACD, IA and FCS and Vader pushing his PS9 on whoever has the best shot while boosting in range or out of arc with an Engine Upgrade.

The double IA's will hopefully negate the problem of the Phantoms moving first.

Don't know how it works mechanically. But it's blasphemous to the game thematically and ruins my immersion. Rebel ships have heavier fire. There's going to be a house rule among my friends that either takes a hit die away from it or rebel ships get +1.

This game is very well made and my favorite mechanics, but every once in while there's a mechanics decision that really affects the immersion. Like the falcon not getting a barrel roll, yeah that was house ruled.

Redneck X Wing

Why so concerned with my groups games? We like our Star Wars original trilogy. Star destroyers may outclass blockade runners but the picture we all grew up with in our heads is rebel fighters one shooting imp fighters. Anything other than that betrays our fond child hood memories.

Same as the falcon, it has the coolest barrel roll in the movies, we are playing to recreate the feeling of the movies. Whatever you guys want to play for is fine for you, but don't be so surprised there are groups that play this solely bc it's Star Wars and has nothing to do with a miniatures game.

Well its totally up to you on how to play

However it is a game and ffg do play test their games quite extensively.

If your changing the amount of defense or attack a ship had, and adding things to a ships action bar could make the game broken.

Tie fighters as fragile add they are, are very nimble ships. Along with their great numbers in comparison to X wings makes them very effective and I feel ffg had captured the feel of how the ships perform.

The Falcon has a lot of hp, and a Turret that can shoot 360 degrees. Having a barrel roll in its action bar by default makes it even more powerful

You can add a barrel roll option by equipping the expert handling but takes the elite slot, along with costing points.

Which balances it out.

I would think that ffg may have had a barrel roll option in its action bar but took it out during play testing due to being over powered.

An old magic adage is

If you need one card to make another card good, it's a bad card.

"says Channel to FireBall"

Eh, that hasn't been a thing since before there was a cap on the number of cards you could put in a deck. That would be circa '94.

Why so concerned with my groups games? We like our Star Wars original trilogy. Star destroyers may outclass blockade runners but the picture we all grew up with in our heads is rebel fighters one shooting imp fighters. Anything other than that betrays our fond child hood memories.

Same as the falcon, it has the coolest barrel roll in the movies, we are playing to recreate the feeling of the movies. Whatever you guys want to play for is fine for you, but don't be so surprised there are groups that play this solely bc it's Star Wars and has nothing to do with a miniatures game.

More of the scary "betrayal" and "blasphemy" talk. You sure these are the words you mean to use? It kind of makes you sound like a fanatic, which I'm sure you aren't btw.

As for TIEs being blown up in one hit, Imperials oneshot the Rebels too. Battle of Yavin, Battle of Endor, every rebel without a name is TIE food. Your house rules seem colossally in favour of one side and pretty unbalancing, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Empire's an unpopular faction. All the stuff you want to do the game gives you the tools to without unbalancing: Expert Handling gives you a barrel-falcon, for example.

That being said, I can't actually recall ever seeing the Falcon barrel roll. Axially spin, sure, but not laterally move while axially spinning.

To be honest, pretty much every ship in Star Wars was able to be oneshot, other then say the Falcon, or any ship with plot armor.

To be honest, pretty much every ship in Star Wars was able to be oneshot, other then say the Falcon, or any ship with plot armor.

The Executor took two.

To be honest, pretty much every ship in Star Wars was able to be oneshot, other then say the Falcon, or any ship with plot armor.

The Executor took two.

Three, if you want to get technical.