Not at all. How about people actually put in some time against it before announcing it broken? A handful of games post-Imdaar are hardly sufficient sample size to declare it a "mistake."

I didn't announce it was broken. I didn't declare it a "mistake". Perhaps you should learn to read and understand before jumping to conclusions.

I usually avoid this sort of thing and I'll admit it's probably a mistake to ruffle feathers and fan potential flames, but you've caught me in a mood where I feel compelled to chime in at the defense of R2ShihTzu. Yes, Ribann, you did "announce" it was broken. You did declare it a mistake. You just didn't do so literally, saying "I announce this is a mistake!" What you did was start a new thread in the mist of a period of heightened discussion on these boards thanks to the wave 5 announcement where you said this...

I wish I could start a poll, but I'll have to keep count front replies. Some of us have had some time to mess around with the Phantom either from winning one at AoIA or on Vassal. I'm curious if you think FFG made a slight oversight when they thought to give the TIE Phantom a base 4 attack? Most people I've played with or against who have flown the Phantom all agree 4 is way too much. I've flown it myself and so long as I'm not up against a Falcon, I can pretty much single-handily wipe out my opponent with just a VI Whisper+Adv Cloaking Device+FCS or Adv. Sensors. In fact, I'm so confident it could happen I'd be willing to run JUST a decked out Whisper against any list that doesn't have any 360* firing arc ships.

TL;DR Is the base 4 attack on a Phantom too much?

Discuss.

Your word choices and general tone in this initial post presents to those of us who can divine the spirit behind the letter that your TL;DR should actually read as follows...

"This 40pts can beat any 100pts worth of opposition sans turrets, as long as the pilot is at least as good as me."

Since I won my Imdaar Alpha by k-turning a Tala squadron to cover my squadron's rear as they escaped though the asteroids and caught that very whisper build + a gunner on board at range 1 while his whisper had no shot to recloak, and OHKOed it, I know you're wrong. R2 knew as well, and respectfully countered your assertion by pointing out the flaws in the manner in which your conclusion was derived. You then implied he was illiterate and unintelligent with a condescending tone.

For the record, my vote is no, the 4akt on the phantom is not broken. My finals opponent took the phantom as his prize, and we played a friendly game after the tournament. My 3 xwings vaporized his phantom with the same loadout in the first round of shooting.

I think it's a legitimate question. I have no opinion as I have STILL yet to face one.

I just think there's a little too much "how dare you ask a question!" in this thread. Don't think it's too powerful? Great, feel free to weigh in. But nobody benefits if we shame people out of starting a discussion.

Not at all. How about people actually put in some time against it before announcing it broken? A handful of games post-Imdaar are hardly sufficient sample size to declare it a "mistake."

I didn't announce it was broken. I didn't declare it a "mistake". Perhaps you should learn to read and understand before jumping to conclusions.

Your own thread title calls says "mistake," so my reading is just fine. Perhaps yours could use some work, along with your other lacking social skills.

Ribann, why did you bother asking a question if you're just going to berate everyone who doesn't answer it the way you want them too?

The Phantom is a lot of fun, but not remotely broken. FFG did fine, give them some credit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again… we had to put up with a 3 attack turret, you can deal with the 4 attack, still-have-to-be-facing-in-the-right-direction glass cannon.

I don't care either way.

Well, now you've validated the question why this thread even exists, because if you don't care, then why ask the question? It's okay to care.

Not that I mind you asking, it's a valid question to which the answer is that it's not too high as long as people learn to adjust their flying patterns and lists. If people stubbornly refuse to adapt they will be in a lot of trouble.

As a response you might start to see things like five BSP with hull upgrades and predator for a while which is a bit like a howlrunner swarm but much more flexible in formation styles.

The meta is like the Borg: it learns, it adapts. The Phantom will be assimilated.

Totally Broken. Yes it is, there's no way should it have 4 attack... the same as a Blockade runners main gun??? LOL

I've seen it in action. With a few ties as support a competent pilot will be one shotting x-wings and unless the opponent wants to break formation and try to cover all angles (and thus get slapped by the support ties) they have no chance.

If you don't have a turret it's best to just give up unfortunately Really disappointing addition to the ships.

Totally Broken. Yes it is, there's no way should it have 4 attack... the same as a Blockade runners main gun??? LOL

I've seen it in action. With a few ties as support a competent pilot will be one shotting x-wings and unless the opponent wants to break formation and try to cover all angles (and thus get slapped by the support ties) they have no chance.

If you don't have a turret it's best to just give up unfortunately Really disappointing addition to the ships.

I hope you're being sarcastic, otherwise you lost me when you started comparing it to the Corvette.

Personally I think the Phantom isn't glass-cannon-y enough.

I demand Expose on it!

I demand 6 attack dice on top of the Expose ability!

I can't ever start threads without people getting hurt. I ask a question and everyone just loses their marbles.

lel

So, are you just trolling at this point, or do you genuinely not understand where you went wrong?

Never mind, the 'lel' answered my question for me.

Most people I've played with or against who have flown the Phantom all agree 4 is way too much. I've flown it myself and so long as I'm not up against a Falcon, I can pretty much single-handily wipe out my opponent with just a VI Whisper+Adv Cloaking Device+FCS or Adv. Sensors. In fact, I'm so confident it could happen I'd be willing to run JUST a decked out Whisper against any list that doesn't have any 360* firing arc ships.

Look, you can't post this then later claim you never asserted that it was broken or a mistake. You asked a loaded question off the bat, followed it with the above, and now are back peddling? C'mon, stop playing dumb.

It's brutally hard hitting, yes.

It will happily annihilate a low-ps rebel build (4x etc).

But against something, 'bear trappy', for want of a better word, I reckon it'll die just fine. Remember you decloak in the activation phase, and cloak after shooting (with acd). Between those events, the phantom is a standard 2 agility target (3 with stealth device). One hit is all you need to knock the stealth off, a couple of good hits can kill it, and like any tie, there's always the chance of one-shotting it.

I do think it shifts the meta a bit. There are some lists that I don't think stand a snowballs chance in hell against a well-flown, adc, high-ps, phantom. But there are a few lists that should knock it out in very short order. And at the end of the day, a fully kitted phantom is what, 40pts?

Bear trappy might be a Wedge swarm tactics chain, for example.

Totally Broken. Yes... not being sarcastic. That's my opinion.

The phantom will butcher you if you spam low PS ships. It's FFG's way of destroying the "more gun is better, to hell with Pilot Skill and Uniques" mindset.

Besides, the TIE phantom relies very much on high tech. Against something that breaks high tech, like our good friend Ion Cannon, the TIE phantom's going to have a bad time.

I do wonder if Blaster HWK has a part to play now.

Totally Broken. Yes... not being sarcastic. That's my opinion.

Right, your opinion. What's your experience with the Phantom?

i'm with ribann... the phantom is just too much.

as I said weeks ago in another thread, is it the advanced cloacking device that makes the phantom almost unbeatable.

this upgrade, paired with 4 attacking dices, and a high PS, makes a death machine.

and yes, I want to spend almost 44 points for a ship with all this, or even more!

Whisper (32) + advanced cloacking (4) + rebel captive/mara jade/navigator (3) + fire-control system (2) + Veteran instinct (1) or outmaneuver (3)... 42 or 44 points total...

every round you have focus (whisper's ability) + target lock (fire-control system) + evade (regualr action).

the only way anyone can hit the phantom, is when the player makes a wrong move and put it in front of wedge antilles upgraded with a good ept at range 1...

Not at all. How about people actually put in some time against it before announcing it broken? A handful of games post-Imdaar are hardly sufficient sample size to declare it a "mistake."

I didn't announce it was broken. I didn't declare it a "mistake". Perhaps you should learn to read and understand before jumping to conclusions.

Uh... didn't you pick the thread title

"4 Attack on Phantom: Mistake by FFG?"

why does this thread even exist?

Why do you ask inane questions?

i think the real question is, why do you start inane threads?

I bring it up because most people whom I've played against with the Phantom (either myself or them) all agree that 4 dice may be a bit too much. I think it is a reasonable observation. Sure, it is hella fun, but 4 dice? Is it a bit too much?

I'm going to assume you haven't played with it and are just upset because others have.

4 defense dice or even 5 at long range are not impossible to beat. In fact we already had similar stuff in the game and nobody complained or even played it. Take an interceptor with Cloaking device and expose. Okay there are some differences in action economy and there being no decloak move but still you sacrifice a bit of your very high agility to fire.

Also Advanced cloak only really works on Whisper or Echo with VI. Cheap counters to it exist already, and i don't even count turrets here. Get Roark Garnet and boost Wedge or anyone with firepower to initiative 12.

Or just take the new Z-95 guy (Blount or whatsisname) and hit him with an ion pulse missile. Game over!

Even if anyone would fly this guy to perfection, people will get shots on him, even while not using turrets.

Phantoms are the absolute definition of glass cannons. If this was 40k Eldar would be flying Phantoms! They have huge cannons indeed but are made of candy too. I mean take cloak away and you are shooting at a Z-95 statline, just 3 times more expensive!

Totally Broken. Yes... not being sarcastic. That's my opinion.

Right, your opinion. What's your experience with the Phantom?

What's yours? Wait no one cares about your trolling that you vomit all over these forums.

Btw, Ribann has only been "berating" the idiots who think you can't post an honest question. Just because you're annoyed by the question doesn't mean others are, and it appears that people do have constructive criticism here.

This is also a way to get those who have the Phantom to express their experience with it and either agree or disagree.

So would you be so kind as to shut up for once? Oh wait I mean, would you be so kind as to STOP "berating" everyone for once?

What's with all the hate lately in this forum.... Can't people just discuss without resorting to insult or telling the other to shut up?

Please, keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, that goes for the OP and the others that disagree with him.

why does this thread even exist?

Why do you ask inane questions?

i think the real question is, why do you start inane threads?

I bring it up because most people whom I've played against with the Phantom (either myself or them) all agree that 4 dice may be a bit too much. I think it is a reasonable observation. Sure, it is hella fun, but 4 dice? Is it a bit too much?

I'm going to assume you haven't played with it and are just upset because others have.

Ok, let's change the question a bit, what Rebel ship will end up getting 4 attack dice to balance this situation out?

I can pretty much single-handily wipe out my opponent with just a VI Whisper+Adv Cloaking Device+FCS or Adv. Sensors.

I find it unfair that FFG saw fit to add this to the game and should take corrective action immediately! If there is a player who can take a single 40pt ship and destroy all others with it, that player should be banned.

Whisper can be pretty tough on the defense, with 4 Def die and 2-3 Focus tokens (thank you Recon Specialist). But, you are still betting on your defense dice. Which even the great Soontir Fel can tell you, can fail spectacularly at the wrong time.