I see the thread has carried on a bit.

The answer is still simple:

No, it's stupid.

I feel like they'd have to change the name of the game if they added a third faction. Hell, might as well go face first down the rabbit hole.

I think you're right - but I think they should actually take this further. I mean the game is called X-Wing. It's not called X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. If they were going to have the Empire in the game, they would have to name the game something that would imply the Empire's inclusion.

Actually, since we're on that subject. It's called 'X-Wing Miniatures Game', not 'A-Wing Miniatures Game' or 'B-Wing Miniatures Game'. How can they possibly justify having all those expansions, unless the game is called something that adds all of those things to its title?

Your brilliant use of sarcasm has convinced me of the error of my ways. Clearly there is room for a third faction, maybe even a fourth. Might as well just pile in all of the Stat Trek ships while we're at it, since the game clearly has no boundaries at this point.

Look, there are some good arguments against a third faction. There are also some that are not convincing. The limitations of the game's name just strikes me as ... erm... belonging to the latter category

I will grant you that it's more substantive than:

No, it's stupid.

Look, there are some good arguments against a third faction. But the limitations of the game's name just strikes me as ... erm... the least convincing of them.

Oh come on, I was obviously being facetious. I do think adding a third faction goes beyond the spirit of a simple dog fighting game, which is what the name seems to imply. Besides, nobody picked up on my amazing The Warriors reference.

Look, there are some good arguments against a third faction. But the limitations of the game's name just strikes me as ... erm... the least convincing of them.

Oh come on, I was obviously being facetious. I do think adding a third faction goes beyond the spirit of a simple dog fighting game, which is what the name seems to imply. Besides, nobody picked up on my amazing The Warriors reference.

Fair enough.

I'm thinking that these retread threads tend to get people posting sarcastically because they've had that argument before (and before, and before). Some people seem so tired that they don't even attempt sarcasm; they go directly to blatant disrespect.

I (mostly) trust that FFG is going to do right by this game, and if they do bring out a third faction, they'll do it well. If they don't, they'll do it because of very good reasons. I'm just saying that I've not seen reasons that convince me. I'm not opposed to being convinced, but I don't change my mind because I'm afraid that perniciousducks will think I'm stupid, or sonova will consider me myopic.

Also, I want something more than a simple dogfighting game, but that's just me. The addition of the Transport and the Tantive implies that FFG also thinks it's more than that.

1) The game is called X-Wing. It's clearly meant to evoke the space battles from the original trilogy, and I don't recall there being a third faction in those movies.

Really? I remember an entire plot arc revolving around an independent faction in the original trilogy. Spanning all three films. And while admittedly there were no actual space battles, the entire opening act of the third film was dedicated to it...

just to pick up "The Warriors" reference: still some Gangs to go (not all of them made it to the film, but hej...)

The Alley Cats, The Amsterdam All-Stars, The Black Hands, The Blackjacks, The Big Trains, The Charlemagnes, The Colt 45′s, The Dealers, The Delaney Rovers, The Dingos, The E Street Shufflers, The Easy Aces, The Eighth Avenue Apaches, The Fastballs, The Fifth Street Bombers, The Filmores, The Firetasters, The Five Points, The Gerrards, The Go Hards, The Gun Hill Dancers, The High Rollers, The Homeboys, The Hoplites, The Howitzers, The Huks, The Imps, The Jesters, The Judas Bunch, The Jupiters, The Knockdowns, The Knuckles, The Locos, The Magicians, The Meatpackers, The Napoleons, The Nickel Steaks, The Nightriders, The Ninth Avenue Razors, The Phillies, The Plainsmen, The Queen’s Bridge Mutilators, The Real Boys, The Red Hook Shooters, The Roadmasters, The Romans, The Runaways, The Saratogas, The Shanghai Sultans, The Southern Cross, The Speedwagons, The Stevedores, The Stilletos, The Stonebreakers, The Terriers, The Turks, The Warriors, The Whispers, The Wizards, The Xenophones, The Xylophones, The Yo-Yo’s, The Youngbloods, The Zodiacs, The Zulus.

All FFG would have to do is come out with the same models, but have new cards and bases for Pirates.

You could pick exisiting ships and just by switching the base they would be a pirate.

The faction could be Generic YT-1300, Firespray-31 generic, Z-95 generic, etc.

Then just have a couple of unique pirate characters to fly them.

Just an idea

Maybe a "Criminal Aces" pack. Repainted or custom versions of the YT-1300, Firespray-31 & Z-95 flying Black Sun / Blazing Claw / Zann Consortium / Exchange colours and with mercenary or privateer pilots.

There's your starting point, move on from there!

Why do so many people say no?

I see lots of "no" "heck no" "we don't need it" - but very little reasoning on why we don't need them?

I figure as long as the game balance remains and a third faction is viable - why not? Still, it would be mighty tough to put out enough ships in a short time to make a third faction viable.

If you want reasons, search for the other hundreds of threads exactly like this

X-Wing is already FFG's best selling game and it's among top sellers among for all miniatures game.

I can think of 2 reasons why FFG would release a 3rd faction and they're not mutually exclusive.

1. Short term: Make more money now.
2. Long term: Secure the longevity of the game

For the first point, I don't think a 3rd faction, since it's so polarizing would make more money for them then say dedicating those same resources to another wave of Rebel and Imperial ships.

For the second point, if this game is to survive into the roaring 20's, I think it'll need more factions. It doesn't seem 2 factions will keep players interested in the long term. Players want variety, which is why the game was suffering from a drop off after wave 3, but is seeing a huge resurgence with all the new releases.

If you want reasons, search for the other hundreds of threads exactly like this

And the reasons never change either; it's simply people being resistant to and fearful of change.

X-Wing is already FFG's best selling game and it's among top sellers among for all miniatures game.

I can think of 2 reasons why FFG would release a 3rd faction and they're not mutually exclusive.

1. Short term: Make more money now.
2. Long term: Secure the longevity of the game

For the first point, I don't think a 3rd faction, since it's so polarizing would make more money for them then say dedicating those same resources to another wave of Rebel and Imperial ships.

For the second point, if this game is to survive into the roaring 20's, I think it'll need more factions. It doesn't seem 2 factions will keep players interested in the long term. Players want variety, which is why the game was suffering from a drop off after wave 3, but is seeing a huge resurgence with all the new releases.

Great post. People will naturally complain about something new until they actually see it working and in action. People complained about the Firespray-31 not being an Imperial ship. the complained about the HWK and most of Wave 4 coming from the Extended Universe. The complained about the Epic-scale ships and the Epic play format

Then they saw them in action, saw the models, the upgrades and the cards, and they sold in droves.

At this point, FFG has earned the right to do what they want with the game. Personally I'd never seen or heard of the Decimator prior to the Wave 5 announcement, but that doesn't mean I begrudge it's place in the game - I'm actually quite excited by what it brings.

I'm equally excited by the possibilities of the oft-suggested Ground Assault expansion, with speeders, walkers and static defences; a reduced-scale fleet combat expansion to satisfy those with a craving for Star Destroyers, and of course another faction.

References to chess and checkers only ever having two sides are counter productive and pretentious. X-Wing is not chess, and it is not checkers. X-Wing has changed more in the two years (yes, the game has only been around for two years - where do you expect it to be in two years time?) than either of those classic games have changed in over 100 years. X-Wing is a multiplayer miniatures game based on an incredibly rich, varied and diverse universe. there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why the X-wing game can't be just as rich, varied and diverse.

Except of course, that good old resistance to and fear of change.

Look, there are some good arguments against a third faction. But the limitations of the game's name just strikes me as ... erm... the least convincing of them.

Oh come on, I was obviously being facetious. I do think adding a third faction goes beyond the spirit of a simple dog fighting game, which is what the name seems to imply. Besides, nobody picked up on my amazing The Warriors reference.

I did, but then again I'm a big fan of the movie.

Shrug

I guess I just fail to see how a third faction adds anything to the game. When the ships can easily fit into either of the two factions. And I think FFG has pretty clearly stated how they feel about ships crossing over into other factions. So, you are looking at a faction completely comprised of EU ships. I just don't think that is viable. And I don't think FFG does either, with the Aces packs.

Honestly, from a game play standpoint, what does a third faction gain the game? Not much, really. It's still a 1-on-1 (or one team vs. another).

I can see having a third (fourth, etc.) faction in a campaign, but that's easy enough to do without changing the basic game, or the inevitable balance issues that happen when making a big change.

Can we agree on the following point? Once someone has played the game for a long enough time, they will reach their own personal saturation point. Whether thats when they own 2 xwings or 8. Once that point is reached, FFG will not be selling that customer any more X-Wings. Is this an acceptable assumption?

Carrying on from this assumption, as time goes on, each player will reach the point where he or she cannot rationalize the purchase of additional ships of a specific type, be it because they have too many already, they do not like the ship, they find it adds nothing, or they just dont have the financial means. This will happen for every ship that has come out. Someone might buy 5 xwings, 8 ties, 1 advanced, 2 ywings, 2 As, 3 Bs, etc. They are done with those ships. Additional purchases of those skus will not happen for that customer.

FFG has to generate interest for this customer. One way, to keep releasing new ships for each faction in subsequent waves. This adds 1-2 additional skus that existing customers will purchase, be it in singles or multpiles.

Another way to to create return customers is to launch a new faction. With a bunch of new skus, thats a bunch of return purchases that an existing player will make. These purchases dont dilute purchases for the existing lines, as those customer already have all those models and wont be buying more.

You are really missing the point i was making. My point was that releasing models in some vain attempt to boost sales is counterproductive in the long run. GW and Privateer Press (to a lesser degree) both suffer from a sprawling product line and have effectively slowed new faction launches to a crawl and/or done massive cullings of their product range.

And I don't see where I said that consumer spend was insufficient, merely pointed out that his assumption where the average consumer is at or close to saturation is a logical fallacy. Yes, once the consumer reaches saturation point they will stop buying ships but how many consumers are actually at that point? All he has is anecdotal evidence which is heavily colored by his own circumstances. And yes you are right. We dont know what the business case is for FFG. We simply dont have access to that information. Which is why the blanket assertion that releasing a 3rd faction is 100% beneficial is extremely facetious at best or downright delusional based on the precedent set by the industry forerunners.

If you took the time to read the rest of the thread the vast majority of people clamoring for a 3rd faction just want more ships than an actual 3rd faction. People have already pointed out that you dont NEED a 3rd faction to accomplish this.

All this thread is essentially is a bunch of people asking for is for FFG to release 4-5 waves worth of ships in short order because they have too much money in their pockets and **** the ramifications for the actual game or the company itself.

You are also missing the point of what a third faction does: it generates interest. Games die because of a few things: 1) bad corporate practices (this one is aimed strictly at GW), 2) complete direction change in rules (Malifaux anyone?), 3) because the game doesnt evolve. Do you think Warhammer 40k would have survived 30 years if it remained like it was in Rogue Trader? No games need to evolve. You need to add new things. At a certain point, if they kept releasing binary expansions (2 rebels, 2 empire) the expansions would get a little stale. There are only so many permumations of the stat lines and rules. Sooner or later, the expansions would end up being a mechanically akin to a Rebel version of Slave 1 or an Imperial B-Wing.

By introducing a new faction, they can grow in a different direction. Rebels can remain with their Wing ships, Imps with their TIEs and the Scum can have unique one offs and rebranded old ships.

You must learn to manage change my friend. Not all change means the sky is falling.

I was initially against a third faction, but ever since I found out that they ARE actually doing it, I am slowly getting more on board.

I look at it like this - In tournaments it simply doesn't matter - Mirror Matches happen ALL the time - so it's not like rebel HAS to play against Empire- and to me, it's more of a "scenario" to have rebel vs empire. I'm happy to play empire vs empire, or rebel vs rebel all day long, I don't care... because it's fun to play. So adding a third faction wouldn't really change that much really.... it would just be more new ships to fight against.

I'm also excited and hopeful that we'll see some spoilers of the IG-2000, Mist Runner, Hound's Tooth, etc by the end of the year.

I'm still not seeing how a new faction is in anyway better than merely new ships in the current factions. They both create new options to buy. And with the new Epic format, having too many ships of one kind isn't necessarily an issue at the moment.

EDIT: There has been NO confirmation on a third faction. In fact, everything FFG has said points to the opposite conclusion.

1) The game is called X-Wing. It's clearly meant to evoke the space battles from the original trilogy, and I don't recall there being a third faction in those movies.

Really? I remember an entire plot arc revolving around an independent faction in the original trilogy. Spanning all three films. And while admittedly there were no actual space battles, the entire opening act of the third film was dedicated to it...

You're reading EU plot devices into the original trilogy that were never there. Han owed money to a gangster. That's all any of movies ever hinted at, and is in no way indicative of a "third faction."

Can somebody point me towards the Axis & Allies forums? I'm suddenly inclined to petition Wizards to include the mafia as a faction in their World War II games.

Can somebody point me towards the Axis & Allies forums? I'm suddenly inclined to petition Wizards to include the mafia as a faction in their World War II games.

Only if we can also include the Yakuza...

Can somebody point me towards the Axis & Allies forums? I'm suddenly inclined to petition Wizards to include the mafia as a faction in their World War II games.

Only if we can also include the Yakuza...

Sure, and Somali pirates while we're at it. Were they even pirating back then? Ah, who cares. They can come anyways!

Pirates versus U-Boats in the Mediterranean. If it didn't happen before, it's happening now. Gotta keep the game fresh, right guys? Otherwise the game will have no long term appeal.

Can somebody point me towards the Axis & Allies forums? I'm suddenly inclined to petition Wizards to include the mafia as a faction in their World War II games.

Only if we can also include the Yakuza...

Sure, and Somali pirates while we're at it. Were they even pirating back then? Ah, who cares. They can come anyways!

Pirates versus U-Boats in the Mediterranean. If it didn't happen before, it's happening now. Gotta keep the game fresh, right guys? Otherwise the game will have no long term appeal.

This is now my #1 pitch for my next turn running an RPG campaign.

Zoccola, your business also assumes a static consumer base. It's not just about return customers, but about new customers. As long as the Star Wars franchise remains strong, there will always be new consumers to purchase those wave 1 X-wings and TIE-Advanced's.

You are also missing the point of what a third faction does: it generates interest.

That's a pretty big assumption. It may or may not do that in other games, and it may or may not do that here. Given the posts in these forms and elsewhere, I'd say it wouldn't generate more interest then more Rebel and Imperial ships would.

In short no

In long Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Zoccola, your business also assumes a static consumer base. It's not just about return customers, but about new customers. As long as the Star Wars franchise remains strong, there will always be new consumers to purchase those wave 1 X-wings and TIE-Advanced's.

Right, but FFG needs to handle both. And the more expansions to the game the fewer people will buy in because the buy in becomes much much higher.