I'd rather it be mercenary ships than a third faction but some people apparently feel like sharing ships would somehow destroy the faction system... I don't buy it.

Different people in this thread are talking about "sharing ships" in very different ways.

Some use the term (or a similar one) to mean having ship/pilot combinations that can be joined to both imp and rebel squads

Some mean having ship/pilots that can join neutral fleets or one of the other factions

Some think it means having the same pilot, in the same ship, but with different pilot ability in different factions

And some are talking about just the ships. Having the YT-1300 in the fringe faction, but with completely different pilots

And really, the whole concept has been so thoroughly tainted by attack wing doing it as badly as possible that most people can't separate the basic concept from wiz kids atrocious implementation.

I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to enlighten you.

Calling someone arrogant and dismissing their opinion won't enlighten them. And I have to agree with him. A third faction on one level or another seems inevitable. We'll just have tto see where it goes. I'd rather it be mercenary ships than a third faction but some people apparently feel like sharing ships would somehow destroy the faction system... I don't buy it.

The longer FFG are allowed to keep the Star Wars license, the more likely it is we'll see the game expanded beyond the basic Rebel/Imperial format. It really is as simple as that.

People said we're only going to see Episode III-IV era ships - then we get the E-Wing, Phantom, Defender, HWK, Decimator.

People said we're only going to see ships that fit into the 100 point tournament play format - then we get the Transport, the Tantive IV and 300 point epic play on larger playing areas.

People say we're only going to have the two current factions... despite the fact that FFG are already drawing heavily from the EU for inspiration and Episodes VII, VIII and IX are looming close on the horizon as well.

There's no use being myopic about this. FFG have created a winner of a game set in a winner of a license with an incredibly fleshed out and diverse universe to draw upon. It's been much more successful than they hoped for, and they're going to continue to expand the game as long as it remains profitable for them to do so.

Again, the only people who are likely to be disappointed are the ones who want to keep the status quo and who want the game to stay the same as it is now, and just like it did with the EU releases and the Epic ships, even that disappointment is likely to evaporate into the hot air it is when they actually see first-hand what FFG have planned.

Just because you want it badly enough, and it makes perfect sense to you, doesn't mean that you have the final answer, have read FFG's intent, and know the future. To say you think it will happen because of some evidence or hope it will because of some desire is reasonable. To say it will definitively be so is arrogant. It doesn't aid discussion, so I called him out on it.

Yes, and you were wrong. Just like you're wrong again in this post as well. Just because you don't want it, and because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean you have the final answer, have read FFG's intent and know the future...

I don't know, I think some are mixing up their want for the "fringey" ships with wanting a third faction. I really do want all the ESB Bounty Hunter ships. But, that doesn't mean I want a third faction. And I definitely do not want factions to share ships.

Just because you differentiate between the two, and want fringy ships without a fringe faction, doesn't mean that those who want both are too stupid to know the difference.

At this point I'm going to retire from this thread. I trust FFG to design and produce this game in a fun, balanced, and satisfying direction. And if they don't, I'll be content with the ships I have up to that point. Alright, happy debating.

...I'm happy the way the game is

So basically your entire argument is "I don't want to see it so therefore it will never happen"?

Doesn't work like that I'm afraid. FFG isn't only catering to you, you know. Still, don't worry - you don't have to buy into the new faction when FFG release it if you don't want to.

Presumptuous, and only demonstrates your supreme arrogance. Fact.

Ooo, insults. How childish. It's not arrogance, I'm afraid - it's simple common sense. I'm sorry that you don't like the idea, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Tell you what go back and read what I posted.

I never said I want them to cater to me.

I just said I like the game the way it is

If you can't understand a simple comment, well that is out of my hands. I guess reading and understanding for some is very challenging

I just said that ffg will not release a new faction. It's not a matter of catering to me. It's a fact that I just know is not going to happen.

You think the small number of people on these forums make up the majority of this game?

Don't kids yourself.

Just because you want a third faction doesn't mean ffg is going to cater to you

The game is fine just how it is. I'm pretty confident ffg probably feel the same way.

The world does not revolve around you btw. Just because yout want another faction doesn't mean it's going to happen.

My suggestion is go out and get a 3d printer and start making your own because that's the only way your going to get a third faction in afraid

I've already listed my reasons so before commenting, go back a page or two and you'll see why I am so **** sure

At this point I'm going to retire from this thread. I trust FFG to design and produce this game in a fun, balanced, and satisfying direction. And if they don't, I'll be content with the ships I have up to that point. Alright, happy debating.

That's probably a wise thing. I think that everything that needed saying has been said.

While the game is fine how it is, there's a lot of really nifty stuff pirates and stuff like the black sun held, that Rebels and Imperials did not. It'd allow tons of new ships and options. And you know what that means..!

More options for our current ships! I just can't possibly see that as anything CLOSE to a bad thing. Like at all.

I think the length of this thread (and number of posts, and views) alone is enough to show that expanding the game with an additional faction is definitely worth considering for FFG.

Aside from the vocal minority of players who desperately want to cling to the familiar and preserve the current status quo, the fact that this particular topic - alongside other similar speculation threads such as what's coming next, where to from here etc - is never very far from the top of the discussion list is telling.

There's plenty of ways FFG can extend the lifespan of this game of course - expanding the existing factions with material from the EU is one, but at some point the existing factions would begin to lose their identity. Moving the game in a different direction - which they have already started doing with the larger ships and Epic scale format - is another option. Spin off expansions such as the often-requested ground assault or fleet-based games is another.

FFG are going to continue to expand and develop this game for as long as they have the license. Fact.

A new faction is inevitable if FFG retain the license. Fact.

At the end of the day, the only players who are going to end up disappointed are the ones who don't want the game to continue to develop and grow.

People are constantly clamoring for one thing or another around here. The number of posts and threads dedicated to custom cards and pet favorites is hardly indicative of something being "worth considering for FFG" - unless we suppose that Star Destoryers are still a possibility. I've seen far more threads dedicated to that than I have a third faction.

Why do you persist in using language that makes those who disagree with you sound like scared old men? Nobody here is afraid of change. We simply do not want to see a good game go bad, which is an inherent risk when you start meddling with something that already works as well as X-Wing does.

Presumptuous, and only demonstrates your supreme arrogance. Fact.

Ooo, insults. How childish. It's not arrogance, I'm afraid - it's simple common sense. I'm sorry that you don't like the idea, but it doesn't make it any less true.

You can call it hubris if you like, or any of a number of other words, but presenting your opinion as absolute fact while dismissing everyone who doesn't agree with you as lacking common sense is most certainly arrogant. Couple that with your consistent use of negative language, and it's not hard to imagine you looking down your nose at us. While that may come off as insulting, it's also a perfectly valid observation. I would say that all of my arguments are likewise dictated by common sense, but I don't think I've ever declared my opinions to be inviolable. If the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing, then perhaps we should all consider ourselves fools at this point. Some of us, at least, are humble enough to recognize it.

I think the length of this thread (and number of posts, and views) alone is enough to show that expanding the game with an additional faction is definitely worth considering for FFG.

Aside from the vocal minority of players who desperately want to cling to the familiar and preserve the current status quo, the fact that this particular topic - alongside other similar speculation threads such as what's coming next, where to from here etc - is never very far from the top of the discussion list is telling.

There's plenty of ways FFG can extend the lifespan of this game of course - expanding the existing factions with material from the EU is one, but at some point the existing factions would begin to lose their identity. Moving the game in a different direction - which they have already started doing with the larger ships and Epic scale format - is another option. Spin off expansions such as the often-requested ground assault or fleet-based games is another.

FFG are going to continue to expand and develop this game for as long as they have the license. Fact.

A new faction is inevitable if FFG retain the license. Fact.

At the end of the day, the only players who are going to end up disappointed are the ones who don't want the game to continue to develop and grow.

People are constantly clamoring for one thing or another around here. The number of posts and threads dedicated to custom cards and pet favorites is hardly indicative of something being "worth considering for FFG" - unless we suppose that Star Destoryers are still a possibility. I've seen far more threads dedicated to that than I have a third faction.

Why do you persist in using language that makes those who disagree with you sound like scared old men? Nobody here is afraid of change. We simply do not want to see a good game go bad, which is an inherent risk when you start meddling with something that already works well.

Dammit! I want to stay away from this thread!

Why do you persist in using language that makes those who disagree with you sound like scared old men? Nobody here is afraid of change. We simply do not want to see a good game go bad, which is an inherent risk when you start meddling with something that already works well.

Well, we want to see if your opposition to our favorite pet idea is not just a function of knee-jerk (tea party) conservatism.

The argument you put forward about inherent risk can be applied to any addition to the game. In that sense, it is such a blanket argument that it simply doesn't address the specific issue and opens you up to the charge of being just scared old men who gripe about anything that "ain't the way it used to be ," and "geddoff my lawn, dangnabbit!"

Risk and difficulty are not reasons not to do something. They are reasons to make sure you are doing it well.

No Risk quite often means no profit. But at the same time, if it's not broke don't fix it.

That's the problem with FTS Gecko's stance. He wants a 3rd faction so bad that he refuses to admit that there's any evidence that doing so could be an issue. He even goes on to say that it will happen, even though there's no way to know that, and there's no evidence that actually supports that.

He even seems to ignore basic logic with his "it won't hurt" argument. Like somehow the fact that he can't see why it would hurt is a valid reason to do something, which flies in the face of the law of unintended consequences. It's pretty foolish to do something that offers no known benefit just because you can't see how it will cause harm.

I'm not against a 3rd faction, I'm also not in favor of it. I would welcome it if it would add something to the game. But so far I have yet to really see how adding it will add much if anything other to the game.

That's the problem with FTS Gecko's stance. He wants a 3rd faction so bad that he refuses to admit that there's any evidence that doing so could be an issue. He even goes on to say that it will happen, even though there's no way to know that, and there's no evidence that actually supports that.

It seems to be a common affliction with those who have Stealth Device as their avatar, on either side of this argument.

Risk and difficulty are not reasons not to do something. They are reasons to make sure you are doing it well.

No Risk quite often means no profit. But at the same time, if it's not broke don't fix it.That's the problem with FTS Gecko's stance. He wants a 3rd faction so bad that he refuses to admit that there's any evidence that doing so could be an issue. He even goes on to say that it will happen, even though there's no way to know that, and there's no evidence that actually supports that.He even seems to ignore basic logic with his "it won't hurt" argument. Like somehow the fact that he can't see why it would hurt is a valid reason to do something, which flies in the face of the law of unintended consequences. It's pretty foolish to do something that offers no known benefit just because you can't see how it will cause harm.

Small companies in risky markets have to take risks.

That's the problem with FTS Gecko's stance. He wants a 3rd faction so bad that he refuses to admit that there's any evidence that doing so could be an issue. He even goes on to say that it will happen, even though there's no way to know that, and there's no evidence that actually supports that.

It seems to be a common affliction with those who have Stealth Device as their avatar, on either side of this argument.

This was worth a chuckle.

Dammit! I want to stay away from this thread!

Why do you persist in using language that makes those who disagree with you sound like scared old men? Nobody here is afraid of change. We simply do not want to see a good game go bad, which is an inherent risk when you start meddling with something that already works well.

Well, we want to see if your opposition to our favorite pet idea is not just a function of knee-jerk (tea party) conservatism.

The argument you put forward about inherent risk can be applied to any addition to the game. In that sense, it is such a blanket argument that it simply doesn't address the specific issue and opens you up to the charge of being just scared old men who gripe about anything that "ain't the way it used to be ," and "geddoff my lawn, dangnabbit!"

I'm not averse to [most] of your pet favorites on principle, just the need for a third faction in order to implement them. As has been said many times, a lot of the EU ships people are still drooling over could be included as part of one of the existing factions, and those who want more narrative elements could (or should) be satisfied with house rules or more missions. There still hasn't been a good argument forwarded for what a third faction brings to the table that couldn't be accomplished with the existing two.

In all honesty, I would also like to see more of the bounty hunter ships included in the game. I just don't see a compelling reason for them to have their own faction. Perhaps that will help convince you that I'm not some doddering old-timer arguing in the abstract.

Jesus Christ guys. Chillax.

We simply do not want to see a good game go bad, which is an inherent risk when you start meddling with something that already works as well as X-Wing does.

Why do you insist that FFG would suddenly screw something up when the gave one of the best track records in gaming? The absolute worst they have done with this game, across more than 20 products is a very few thing mis ousted by a point or two. Why do you insist that that if they did this they would suddenly fly off the tracks and ruin the game instead of continuing their tradition of outstanding products?

Small companies in risky markets have to take risks.

Yes, but at the same time, a small company with a killer product should really think hard before they make many changes to that product.

Lets see where this goes...

What would a 3rd faction offer the game, if one were made? I'd like to hear some ideas, other then 'more variety' or something similarly vague. I'd especially like to hear ideas about stuff a 3rd faction would offer that the current 2 can't.

We simply do not want to see a good game go bad, which is an inherent risk when you start meddling with something that already works as well as X-Wing does.

Why do you insist that FFG would suddenly screw something up when the gave one of the best track records in gaming? The absolute worst they have done with this game, across more than 20 products is a very few thing mis ousted by a point or two. Why do you insist that that if they did this they would suddenly fly off the tracks and ruin the game instead of continuing their tradition of outstanding products?

The fact that FFG does well with their current product lineup is no reason to assume that they can turn anything into gold, no matter how bad a premise it may be to start off with. They could always make a Star Destroyer too, and while I'm sure it would be a terrific model, that doesn't mean it would be a particularly good idea in the first place.

I'm not averse to [most] of your pet favorites on principle, just the need for a third faction in order to implement them. As has been said many times, a lot of the EU ships people are still drooling over could be included as part of one of the existing factions, and those who want more narrative elements could (or should) be satisfied with house rules or more missions. There still hasn't been a good argument forwarded for what a third faction brings to the table that couldn't be accomplished with the existing two.

In all honesty, I would also like to see more of the bounty hunter ships included in the game. I just don't see a compelling reason for them to have their own faction. Perhaps that will help convince you that I'm not some doddering old-timer arguing in the abstract.

Okay, fair enough - but I'm watching you!

I also agree that those of us who want narrative can certainly make those narratives on our own time, and shouldn't need FFG to do that for us, and that includes introducing house rules for third factions in whatever narrative we want.

So, acknowledging all of that, my remaining argument in favor, and it's a minor one, is that I think the third faction keeps the Empire purer, and it gives the existing factions some time to rest while a third faction is fleshed out by future releases.

Small companies in risky markets have to take risks.

Yes, but at the same time, a small company with a killer product should really think hard before they make many changes to that product.Lets see where this goes...What would a 3rd faction offer the game, if one were made? I'd like to hear some ideas, other then 'more variety' or something similarly vague. I'd especially like to hear ideas about stuff a 3rd faction would offer that the current 2 can't.

It gives nuetral characters a place. There are any number of those in the films and more in the EU. There was more going on in the Universe than this conflict and the game so far doesn't represent that.

The next thing it offers is faction parity via mercenary units. This applies to characters like Dengar, zuccus+ and 4lom. They worked for both sides in their character arcs. Representing that via mercenary units offers a variety of unique abilities without worrying that the other side needs an equivalent.

It offers a lot of civilian level modified craft. Many of these, like the uglies, have unique designs and feature heavily in works about spacebattles. The Xwinged ties(Deathseeds) are some of my favorites.

I don't think a full third faction is a good idea. But I think a mercenary ship, a rebel, and an imperial per wave offers a lot of potential to the game.

I'm not averse to [most] of your pet favorites on principle, just the need for a third faction in order to implement them. As has been said many times, a lot of the EU ships people are still drooling over could be included as part of one of the existing factions, and those who want more narrative elements could (or should) be satisfied with house rules or more missions. There still hasn't been a good argument forwarded for what a third faction brings to the table that couldn't be accomplished with the existing two.

In all honesty, I would also like to see more of the bounty hunter ships included in the game. I just don't see a compelling reason for them to have their own faction. Perhaps that will help convince you that I'm not some doddering old-timer arguing in the abstract.

Okay, fair enough - but I'm watching you!

I also agree that those of us who want narrative can certainly make those narratives on our own time, and shouldn't need FFG to do that for us, and that includes introducing house rules for third factions in whatever narrative we want.

So, acknowledging all of that, my remaining argument in favor, and it's a minor one, is that I think the third faction keeps the Empire purer, and it gives the existing factions some time to rest while a third faction is fleshed out by future releases.

Keep watching. I've been told I put on a pretty good show.

Small companies in risky markets have to take risks.

Yes, but at the same time, a small company with a killer product should really think hard before they make many changes to that product.Lets see where this goes...What would a 3rd faction offer the game, if one were made? I'd like to hear some ideas, other then 'more variety' or something similarly vague. I'd especially like to hear ideas about stuff a 3rd faction would offer that the current 2 can't.

As I've said, feeling unnaligned. A big part of Star Wars was about the underworld, and shoehorning most of that into the Empire or Rebellion feels off. So far they've only really done this with the Firespray pilots. And it irks me that I can't run a Fett Solo list.

It gives nuetral characters a place. There are any number of those in the films and more in the EU. There was more going on in the Universe than this conflict and the game so far doesn't represent that.

The next thing it offers is faction parity via mercenary units. This applies to characters like Dengar, zuccus+ and 4lom. They worked for both sides in their character arcs. Representing that via mercenary units offers a variety of unique abilities without worrying that the other side needs an equivalent.

It offers a lot of civilian level modified craft. Many of these, like the uglies, have unique designs and feature heavily in works about spacebattles. The Xwinged ties(Deathseeds) are some of my favorites.

I don't think a full third faction is a good idea. But I think a mercenary ship, a rebel, and an imperial per wave offers a lot of potential to the game.

I think what you need to come to terms with at this point is a very common element in gaming: sacrificing flavor for mechanics. Should Fett be a lone wolf type character? Absolutely. By the same token, there's a number of other combinations which already break immersion. Never mind the fact that half of the pilots in the game are already dead . Does it make sense to you to fly Vader with anyone besides Backstabber and Mauler Mithel, or have him bombing around in a Firespray? What about Howl flying with an Interceptor swarm? The possibilities are too many to list them all, but the fact remains that fluff often takes a backseat to playability. That's the way it should be, and I see no good reason to make flavor oriented changes just to satisfy the "feeling" of a few forum posters. Again, if you want to feel unaligned, pretend to be a bounty hunter or a pirate, go play an RPG. That's what those types of games exist for.

Nebulon-b first...

Then a Start Destroyer...

THEN other factions!

So Sayest Me!

The fact that FFG does well with their current product lineup is no reason to assume that they can turn anything into gold, no matter how bad a premise it may be to start off with.

It's no reason to assume they won't either.

With the star destroyer argument, there were many, concrete, definable reasons it would be too problematic. So far your entire argument against an additional faction has been "because they might screw it up".

I also note your just assuming its a bad premise to start off with. Basically you personally don't like the idea and that is so coloring your perceptions of it you can't see anything else. Vanor has been doing a much better job of arguing against the idea, in fact, he is the only one providing any reasonable arguments against it, and even his argument boiled down to "it doesn't add anything", which isn't quite true.

I've said before, I don't think it will happen. I don't think it is necessary. But I do think it would be fun and I think it could be done very very well without too much trouble on FFGs part.

But I'll tell you this, few great games have ever lasted indefinitely. You either die a hero, or live long enough to see your game turn to crap. Considering the finite nature of the Star Wars universe, a third faction would be nothing more than a last desperate step in that direction.

Didn't someone already mention the concept of "jumping the shark"?

Oh, wait, that was me!

The fact that FFG does well with their current product lineup is no reason to assume that they can turn anything into gold, no matter how bad a premise it may be to start off with.

It's no reason to assume they won't either.

With the star destroyer argument, there were many, concrete, definable reasons it would be too problematic. So far your entire argument against an additional faction has been "because they might screw it up".

I also note your just assuming its a bad premise to start off with. Basically you personally don't like the idea and that is so coloring your perceptions of it you can't see anything else. Vanor has been doing a much better job of arguing against the idea, in fact, he is the only one providing any reasonable arguments against it, and even his argument boiled down to "it doesn't add anything", which isn't quite true.

I've said before, I don't think it will happen. I don't think it is necessary. But I do think it would be fun and I think it could be done very very well without too much trouble on FFGs part.

When faced with the possibility of introducing radical change into a system which already works incredibly well, which is the most natural assumption: that the game will a) stay the same, b) get even better, or c) get worse?