What did you expect the imps lost their chief complaint of no turrets so now they need to think of new things to complain about and the newest ships are always prime targets

I just haven't been complaining about turrets much because I'm a tad busy geeking out over more unique Imperial crew and the tons and tons of tactical shenanigans I can use Mara and the Fleet Officer for.

Yes, I'll be looking forward to those. You can help cushion your fighters against the effects of wes janson, or make Rexler Brath much more likely to hit with his ability.

It's not immune to asteroids, and it's a Large ship, so I don't think it's going to be ignoring 90% of what the game is about. And we don't know what debris clouds do yet, but they might interfere with movement and/or targeting in a way that makes the Outrider seem less impressive.

Then don't play it.

This argument carries very little weight in a game with such a heavy tournament focus.

I disagree with the OP, but instead of being dismissive, I'll actually state why:

I think that the ship does a good job of turning the terrain into something aymmetrical, which is interesting and new. It will force me to change my asteroid placement and alter my positioning tactics (I'm also primary Imperial).

Sorry about that. I just get tired of seeing "This will break the game!" posts when that sort of mentality has no place in a game which is designed so you can use whatever pieces you want and still have a good force, and ESPECIALLY in a game which is as well-balanced as this one.

First it was with the Millennium Falcon's 360 turret ("It can shoot anywhere! It'll be impossible to kill!"). Then it was with the B-wing's ability to mount a HLC in addition to its general craziness ("It'll be invincible with those shields and armor AND the 3 attack!"). And then we had the complaints about the TIE Phantom ("It's got FOUR attack! Are they nuts?"). And now the Outrider is being talked about by someone as OP.

It's bothersome, particularly when the ship later turns out to be as balanced as other ships.

The complaints haven't held up with ships that are already released, for the most part. And I just think it's silly to complain about something without at least giving it a few tries on the battlefield.

I can't imagine seeing the Outrider as broken. It's my favorite built in Turret ship by far because it necessitates some form of compromise. You don't have a range 1 and payed 12 points for the privelage, or you only have 2 attack dice across 3/4ths of your turret.

That's not anything like Training wheels. Paying 48 points for Dash is alot for one ship, even with 4 attack. It isn't like he can hit 5 up close.

Basically. Not Broken.

Honestly, it's a little bit dangerous in a tournament setting. If you misjudge a Barrel Roll and you wind up with a corner on an Asteroid, your sunk. And since you will be able to do the Barrel Roll, you can't just switch sides after you declare it.

You cannot Boost or Barrel Roll onto obstacles, so if you are unable to complete the action you can in fact just switch side. Or do something completely different. If we want to get technical I would say the Outrider will always be able to Barrel roll either in front of or behind an asteroid because it's base is so large and can slide the BR. Still Barrel Roll and Boost are safe from asteroid problems.

Don't forget if you get blocked you're still sunk. Fast ships can still block it and if they block it on the asteroid it can't barrel roll off and it can't shoot. This thing is dangerous to use if you ask me. Great fun for casual, but difficult to play against top level players.

I might be willing to pay the 12 points for Outrider plus HLC. But certainly not combined with Dash Rendar. Why? This combo makes no sense. I would run my 2400 on my back line of the table up and down firing broadside after broadside into the midfield. For that it needs no high pilot skill, it needs no such ability. It just needs to be cheaper so the rest of my force can mingle with the enemy in said midfield while he tries to close with me. Which he needs to or my HLC will get the better of him in the end. An elite slot would be nice but idk if it's required here.

Maybe the other named pilot will have a nicer skill for what i intend to do with this combo.

Sorry about that. I just get tired of seeing "This will break the game!" posts when that sort of mentality has no place in a game which is designed so you can use whatever pieces you want and still have a good force, and ESPECIALLY in a game which is as well-balanced as this one.

First it was with the Millennium Falcon's 360 turret ("It can shoot anywhere! It'll be impossible to kill!"). Then it was with the B-wing's ability to mount a HLC in addition to its general craziness ("It'll be invincible with those shields and armor AND the 3 attack!"). And then we had the complaints about the TIE Phantom ("It's got FOUR attack! Are they nuts?"). And now the Outrider is being talked about by someone as OP.

It's bothersome, particularly when the ship later turns out to be as balanced as other ships.

The complaints haven't held up with ships that are already released, for the most part. And I just think it's silly to complain about something without at least giving it a few tries on the battlefield.

Yet both ships did have strong effect on the meta. The Falcon made swarms go from "powerful list" to "Better fly swarms if you take TIE's" because arc-dodging is impossible against it (also makes Interceptors a risky choice in tournaments). And the B-wing is practically auto-include for a vast number of the Rebel lists.

So yes, while both ships aren't unbeatable, they are a clear cut above the rest.

Sorry about that. I just get tired of seeing "This will break the game!" posts when that sort of mentality has no place in a game which is designed so you can use whatever pieces you want and still have a good force, and ESPECIALLY in a game which is as well-balanced as this one.

First it was with the Millennium Falcon's 360 turret ("It can shoot anywhere! It'll be impossible to kill!"). Then it was with the B-wing's ability to mount a HLC in addition to its general craziness ("It'll be invincible with those shields and armor AND the 3 attack!"). And then we had the complaints about the TIE Phantom ("It's got FOUR attack! Are they nuts?"). And now the Outrider is being talked about by someone as OP.

It's bothersome, particularly when the ship later turns out to be as balanced as other ships.

The complaints haven't held up with ships that are already released, for the most part. And I just think it's silly to complain about something without at least giving it a few tries on the battlefield.

Yet both ships did have strong effect on the meta. The Falcon made swarms go from "powerful list" to "Better fly swarms if you take TIE's" because arc-dodging is impossible against it (also makes Interceptors a risky choice in tournaments). And the B-wing is practically auto-include for a vast number of the Rebel lists.

So yes, while both ships aren't unbeatable, they are a clear cut above the rest.

Just because something affects the meta doesn't mean its better, just that it offers something new and equivalent.

The thing about Dash's ability is, that it really makes him a bad choice, imo. If you are experienced at maneuvering, you won't be needing his ability. I just don't see him making the top tables too often. About the only thing going for him is that he has an Elite Talent and a 7 pilot skill. It really is too bad that he likely won't be the top YT-2400 pick.

Yeah, my guess is that he will be picked as often as Boba Fett is for the Firespray. It is nice for new players, but the more you learn to play, the less you need help with your maneuvering. You can still pick him for fun, casual and thematic game but, for competitive play, I'm sure the other 2 pilots will be better.

But, played smartly, and not just for easy mode, he can potentially really mess with the opponent. That's the first pilot that can go head on into an asteroid field without worrying about damage. Yes it means new player can't screw up while maneuvering the big base, but it also means that you can use it to get into a position you would not have thought about before, unless you don't care about the potential damage and loss of action. Asteroid placement will be a big part of a wise Dash Rendar player strategy.

The thing about Dash's ability is, that it really makes him a bad choice, imo. If you are experienced at maneuvering, you won't be needing his ability. I just don't see him making the top tables too often. About the only thing going for him is that he has an Elite Talent and a 7 pilot skill. It really is too bad that he likely won't be the top YT-2400 pick.

Yeah, my guess is that he will be picked as often as Boba Fett is for the Firespray. It is nice for new players, but the more you learn to play, the less you need help with your maneuvering. You can still pick him for fun, casual and thematic game but, for competitive play, I'm sure the other 2 pilots will be better.

But, played smartly, and not just for easy mode, he can potentially really mess with the opponent. That's the first pilot that can go head on into an asteroid field without worrying about damage. Yes it means new player can't screw up while maneuvering the big base, but it also means that you can use it to get into a position you would not have thought about before, unless you don't care about the potential damage and loss of action. Asteroid placement will be a big part of a wise Dash Rendar player strategy.

Dash allows you more options, but he also becomes virtually impossible to chase through an Asteroid field. He practically plays like the board is clear of Asteroids. He can make use of them for defense without fear of action loss or crashes. It creates a different playstyle in a way Fett doesn't allow for.

That said, Fett and his gators migh be seeing a resurgance if he turns out to be a good Phantom Counter.

The thing about Dash's ability is, that it really makes him a bad choice, imo. If you are experienced at maneuvering, you won't be needing his ability. I just don't see him making the top tables too often. About the only thing going for him is that he has an Elite Talent and a 7 pilot skill. It really is too bad that he likely won't be the top YT-2400 pick.

Yeah, my guess is that he will be picked as often as Boba Fett is for the Firespray. It is nice for new players, but the more you learn to play, the less you need help with your maneuvering. You can still pick him for fun, casual and thematic game but, for competitive play, I'm sure the other 2 pilots will be better.

But, played smartly, and not just for easy mode, he can potentially really mess with the opponent. That's the first pilot that can go head on into an asteroid field without worrying about damage. Yes it means new player can't screw up while maneuvering the big base, but it also means that you can use it to get into a position you would not have thought about before, unless you don't care about the potential damage and loss of action. Asteroid placement will be a big part of a wise Dash Rendar player strategy.

I don't quite buy this. Fett' issue is that often his extra paths are blocked given his large base, and that experienced players can see that coming and choose accordingly.

Dash allows you more options, but he also becomes virtually impossible to chase through an Asteroid field. He practically plays like the board is clear of Asteroids. He can make use of them for defense without fear of action loss or crashes. It creates a different playstyle in a way Fett doesn't allow for.

That said, Fett and his gators migh be seeing a resurgance if he turns out to be a good Phantom Counter.

That's what I was saying with the second part of my message, that its not just a training wheel ability and it can be use efficiently by experienced player.

But, unless the other 2 pilots abilities are crap, I don't think he will be pick for competitive play often. Players will probably go with a cheaper pilot with a useful ability to mitigate the Outsider cost. Since we don't know the other pilots abilities, I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think a movement ability will be the more appealing for experienced players.

The thing about Dash's ability is, that it really makes him a bad choice, imo. If you are experienced at maneuvering, you won't be needing his ability. I just don't see him making the top tables too often. About the only thing going for him is that he has an Elite Talent and a 7 pilot skill. It really is too bad that he likely won't be the top YT-2400 pick.

Yeah, my guess is that he will be picked as often as Boba Fett is for the Firespray. It is nice for new players, but the more you learn to play, the less you need help with your maneuvering. You can still pick him for fun, casual and thematic game but, for competitive play, I'm sure the other 2 pilots will be better.

But, played smartly, and not just for easy mode, he can potentially really mess with the opponent. That's the first pilot that can go head on into an asteroid field without worrying about damage. Yes it means new player can't screw up while maneuvering the big base, but it also means that you can use it to get into a position you would not have thought about before, unless you don't care about the potential damage and loss of action. Asteroid placement will be a big part of a wise Dash Rendar player strategy.

I don't quite buy this. Fett' issue is that often his extra paths are blocked given his large base, and that experienced players can see that coming and choose accordingly.

Dash allows you more options, but he also becomes virtually impossible to chase through an Asteroid field. He practically plays like the board is clear of Asteroids. He can make use of them for defense without fear of action loss or crashes. It creates a different playstyle in a way Fett doesn't allow for.

That said, Fett and his gators migh be seeing a resurgance if he turns out to be a good Phantom Counter.

That's what I was saying with the second part of my message, that its not just a training wheel ability and it can be use efficiently by experienced player.

But, unless the other 2 pilots abilities are crap, I don't think he will be pick for competitive play often. Players will probably go with a cheaper pilot with a useful ability to mitigate the Outsider cost. Since we don't know the other pilots abilities, I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think a movement ability will be the more appealing for experienced players.

He practically plays like the board is clear of Asteroids. He can make use of them for defense without fear of action loss or crashes.

I don't agree. Sure he can still take an action if he hits something. But he still rolls for damage, and he still can't fire if he lands on one.

If he does hit/land on one the only thing he can really do is BR off it, so unless you give him PTL he's effectively lost his action either way.

I agree that Dash will be easier to fly though the rocks then Han will. But it's hardly like he's immune to them.

He practically plays like the board is clear of Asteroids. He can make use of them for defense without fear of action loss or crashes.

I don't agree. Sure he can still take an action if he hits something. But he still rolls for damage, and he still can't fire if he lands on one.

Since he ignores obstacles, I do believe he does not roll for damage.

He practically plays like the board is clear of Asteroids. He can make use of them for defense without fear of action loss or crashes.

I don't agree. Sure he can still take an action if he hits something. But he still rolls for damage, and he still can't fire if he lands on one.If he does hit/land on one the only thing he can really do is BR off it, so unless you give him PTL he's effectively lost his action either way.I agree that Dash will be easier to fly though the rocks then Han will. But it's hardly like he's immune to them.

Just because something affects the meta doesn't mean its better, just that it offers something new and equivalent.

There's a difference between "affecting the meta" and "a good majority of the players flying the side pick or include it" though.

He doesn't take the damage, and a skilled pilot can pretty easily manage not to land on the rock if he's trying to fly past it. Every time I hit a rock it's because I'm trying to land near it but not on it because I don't want my template to hit it. IF I don' care about my template hitting it I can pretty easily manage not to land on them. Beyond that, barrel rolling is such a great positioning tool that it's hardly a "wasted action".

It does, however, help put a damper on the amount of firepower Dash can throw at his opponents. PTL could help with this, but with the continuing arrival of stress generators getting stress tokens is becoming less and less attractive.

Just because something affects the meta doesn't mean its better, just that it offers something new and equivalent.

There's a difference between "affecting the meta" and "a good majority of the players flying the side pick or include it" though.

He doesn't take the damage, and a skilled pilot can pretty easily manage not to land on the rock if he's trying to fly past it. Every time I hit a rock it's because I'm trying to land near it but not on it because I don't want my template to hit it. IF I don' care about my template hitting it I can pretty easily manage not to land on them. Beyond that, barrel rolling is such a great positioning tool that it's hardly a "wasted action".

It does, however, help put a damper on the amount of firepower Dash can throw at his opponents. PTL could help with this, but with the continuing arrival of stress generators getting stress tokens is becoming less and less attractive.

We see Ties all the time on the Imperial side as well. And Firesprays. And Shuttles. I like to run all 3 in a list when I can. Does that make them broken? Certainly not.

Also, it is always better to shoot weaker and not take shots than the other way around. Barrel rolling to avoid damage/ get a shot is still a sound move.(Also, Rebels have lots of focus passers, most of which can pass to Dash just fine...)

Since he ignores obstacles, I do believe he does not roll for damage.

He only ignores obstacles in 2 cases, during activation and when preforming actions. I don't see how you get to skip rolling for damage, since that happens as part of the maneuver phase, not the activation phase.

Since he ignores obstacles, I do believe he does not roll for damage.

He only ignores obstacles in 2 cases, during activation and when preforming actions. I don't see how you get to skip rolling for damage, since that happens as part of the maneuver phase, not the activation phase.

Since he ignores obstacles, I do believe he does not roll for damage.

He only ignores obstacles in 2 cases, during activation and when preforming actions. I don't see how you get to skip rolling for damage, since that happens as part of the maneuver phase, not the activation phase.

Because all manuevers happen during the activation phase.

Ok guess I always thought of it as the maneuver phase then the activation phase.

But even without the damage, which is honestly not that huge of a risk. It still doesn't mean you can just ignore the rocks. They'll still cause Dash issues, so it's not like he really lets you ignore 90% of the game.

As others have said I don't expect him to be the most popular chose for the YT-2400 unless the other named pilot is pretty bad.

Because all manuevers happen during the activation phase.

Ok I'll buy that. Guess I always thought of it as the maneuver phase then the activation phase.But even without the damage, which is honestly not that huge of a risk. It still doesn't mean you can just ignore the rocks. They'll still cause Dash issues, so it's not like he really lets you ignore 90% of the game.As others have said I don't expect him to be the most popular chose for the YT-2400 unless the other named pilot is pretty bad.

I think people are downplaying how much more he can do than other ships. Yes he can't attack while on them, but if he's got a nice Asteroid cluster to work with he can place himself in such a way where he can basically have agility 3. Anybody trying to get close or keep their fire on him for long risks the asteroids, etc. It's a little dial dependant, but played right, with the right Asteroid placement he has a much much higher skill cap to benefit ratio to him than the Falcon.

but if he's got a nice Asteroid cluster to work with he can place himself in such a way where he can basically have agility 3.

Sure but how often are you going to be in spot where you can do that, without having those same rocks block your shot?

Because all manuevers happen during the activation phase.

Ok I'll buy that. Guess I always thought of it as the maneuver phase then the activation phase.But even without the damage, which is honestly not that huge of a risk. It still doesn't mean you can just ignore the rocks. They'll still cause Dash issues, so it's not like he really lets you ignore 90% of the game.As others have said I don't expect him to be the most popular chose for the YT-2400 unless the other named pilot is pretty bad.

I think people are downplaying how much more he can do than other ships. Yes he can't attack while on them, but if he's got a nice Asteroid cluster to work with he can place himself in such a way where he can basically have agility 3. Anybody trying to get close or keep their fire on him for long risks the asteroids, etc. It's a little dial dependant, but played right, with the right Asteroid placement he has a much much higher skill cap to benefit ratio to him than the Falcon.

I'm right there with you. I definitely plan to use barrel roll in the asteroid field to get me some extra evades, and it's easier than it is with any current ship. Range 3 you could have 4 total on your large base, and they don't get the one from range with your canon upgrade. Push the Limit and Recon Spec and you have an extremely durable turret platform.

but if he's got a nice Asteroid cluster to work with he can place himself in such a way where he can basically have agility 3.

Sure but how often are you going to be in spot where you can do that, without having those same rocks block your shot?

That' an acceptable loss to add an agility to each roll sent at me for a round. Especially when rolling Heavy laser cannon dice. The added suvivability means a lot more to a ship that expensive. After all, 3 Defense dice and 10 Hull. That could take a while.(Especially with Recon Specialist or Lando.)