After seeing the new stuff for Wave 5, I thought a lot of it was really cool. Finally getting a token-passer for the Imperials is good, and Lando is going to be very awesome on both the YT-1300 and 2400. But then I happened to see Dash Rendar… and in my head I kinda lost it a little.

Sure, ever since the Falcon first came out, there's been a huge amount of sour grapes from the more Imperial-slanted or Imperial Exclusive players out there. And it's reasonable. I was (and sometimes still am) one of them. A ship that is its own "easy mode", that doesn't really have to care where it ends up and still fires at full strength at anything on the board. It seems that it takes a large percentage out of what this game is. That is to say, planning clever maneuvers and approaches to maximize your damage output and evasiveness. It became a no brainer. That one craft changed the meta forever.

For a good long while, I'd figured that eventually they'd come out with something that could mitigate the effect of asteroids. But I'd always hoped it would be a small craft pilot, something maneuverable and cheap that could duck around asteroids but that otherwise wouldn't really matter too much. Maybe a little ship for new players to include until they get used to maneuvering and can move on to something else. After all, a TIE is still a TIE and can die like one. And if not that, at least an EPT so both sides had equal access to an ability that is in no way flavored for one side or the other.

But really now, FFG? A (rebel exclusive) ship that can move anywhere, fire anywhere, land anywhere, with absolutely no regard for the other half of what makes this game so strategic? Don't have to care where you end up, don't have to care what maneuver you pick, don't even have to suffer if you land smack dab on an asteroid? Just barrel roll off it without even having to take Expert Handling?

I just can't help but think that in a game that is part maneuvering and evading, and the other part avoiding colliding with obstacles, that making a ship that can fire on anything from almost anywhere and that doesn't have to care about obstacles is just… I don't know. It just seems to defeat the entire point of the game.

Then don't play it.

The card says nothing about the combat phase, meaning you can probably still not shoot while on an asteroid, his ability just keeps him from taking damage, not that OP in my opinion.

Yes but you can barrel roll off the asteroid.

TBH I don't even know if he's worth 36 points, personally I don't see him being any better than Trelix who costs the same.

really though the ability seems fitting for the ship, what other ability should it have?

It's one ship -- a unique ship. It has 2 attack and 10 hit points. It's not a monster, and it's not cheap. I don't see a problem with it.

The ability is pretty thematic. It is also not THAT powerful. It still forces him to take his action to get off an asteroid, which is perfectly fine by me.

It's one ship -- a unique ship. It has 2 attack and 10 hit points. It's not a monster, and it's not cheap. I don't see a problem with it.

^^^^ this.

It can be a training wheel for new players, but dedicating over a third of your squad to a 2 dice attack training wheel limits your squad. For another 12 points, almost half your squad now, it can have a HLC on a turret, but now it can't shoot at range 1 and the total cost is incredibly limiting.

Yeah, so, he can "just" Barrel roll off, at the loss of Evading or Focusing or Target Locking. Its still going to be a situation where you'd rather not have to waste your action Barrel rolling just to get off an asteroid.

A two-attack turret is also nothing to really get super exited about. Which means people will give it outrider and upgrade its secondary, but that already puts it at 41 points. Put a Heavy Laser Cannon on it and its 48 points with a huge blind spot in range 1.

Dunno, doesn't seem worth the points.

It's one ship -- a unique ship. It has 2 attack and 10 hit points. It's not a monster, and it's not cheap. I don't see a problem with it.

^^^^ this.

It can be a training wheel for new players, but dedicating over a third of your squad to a 2 dice attack training wheel limits your squad. For another 12 points, almost half your squad now, it can have a HLC on a turret, but now it can't shoot at range 1 and the total cost is incredibly limiting.

IDK, 2 attack isn't the greatest, but put it on a turret and it becomes pretty decent. Plus with BR you can close to Range 1 easier.

I very 'meh' about the Outrider... I'll have to see the rest of the pilots, dial, and upgrades of course, but on initial impression it doesn't look all that great.

The Decimator looks way more of a game changer in my opinion.

Im just excited they came up with a new ability concept.

As an imperial player, I see no issue. You pay for what you get.

And don't forget, Doug Kinney(am i correct he was first world champ?) or Paul Heaver could have came up with that ability! Lets not hate on the cool honor that they earned! Unless someone wants to tune in and let me know what cards they helped design!

And in order to get to shoot, he would basically have to give up his action getting off the asteroid. How is that unbalanced?

Though, it DOES sadden me just a little bit

In STAR WARS some of the guns can turn round and round...done.

Then don't play it.

ZOING!

A two-attack turret is also nothing to really get super exited about. Which means people will give it outrider and upgrade its secondary, but that already puts it at 41 points. Put a Heavy Laser Cannon on it and its 48 points with a huge blind spot in range 1.

Dunno, doesn't seem worth the points.

Put an HLC on Brath and it costs about that much, for a ship with almost half the HP and that can only fire forward.

With 2 attacks it's not that worrying even with a turret mount, it's a tough little ship but it'll be taken more because people like dash rendar than because it's super powerful.

Then don't play it.

This argument carries very little weight in a game with such a heavy tournament focus.

I disagree with the OP, but instead of being dismissive, I'll actually state why:

I think that the ship does a good job of turning the terrain into something aymmetrical, which is interesting and new. It will force me to change my asteroid placement and alter my positioning tactics (I'm also primary Imperial).

It also means he can barrel roll or boost THROUGH an asteroid as well.

I have to agree, this ship is the ultimate in easy mode material.

I don't think it breaks the game, however. I think the limitations with 2 dice and range 1 hole are good compromises...unless you want to start talking about a range 1-3 ion cannon that can move anywhere it wants.

That makes me scratch my neck and wonder when the insanity will end.

But that's okay, I'll still grind it into rebel dust.

A two-attack turret is also nothing to really get super exited about. Which means people will give it outrider and upgrade its secondary, but that already puts it at 41 points. Put a Heavy Laser Cannon on it and its 48 points with a huge blind spot in range 1.

Dunno, doesn't seem worth the points.

Put an HLC on Brath and it costs about that much, for a ship with almost half the HP and that can only fire forward.

Yeah, but at least Brath doesn't get a massive range 1 blind spot and can flip those potentially 4 damage cards face up. He also has one more standard attack and one more agility. And even with all that I'd still be hesitant to include Brath unless I can build a solid list with him. Outrider has far less advantages.

I was expecting something like this from a named bounty hunter on a firespray. I was a little concerned but with 1/3 the firepower of 2 xwings and the same HP with about the same cost after upgrades I'm not too worried.

After seeing the new stuff for Wave 5, I thought a lot of it was really cool. Finally getting a token-passer for the Imperials is good, and Lando is going to be very awesome on both the YT-1300 and 2400. But then I happened to see Dash Rendar… and in my head I kinda lost it a little…

Your post kind of confuses me, because it's clear that you're upset but after reading it I'm still not actually sure what you're upset about.

* The Falcon is "easy mode". Setting aside my disagreement with that statement for the moment, it's not all that relevant to either of the Wave 5 ships; both of the new ships are different from the Falcon in key ways.

* The "anti-asteroid" card isn't available to the Empire. Okay, but Mara Jade's "stress everybody" effect isn't available for the Rebellion, and neither is the very desirable Fleet Officer. It's an asymmetric game, and has been from the start.

*

But really now, FFG? A (rebel exclusive) ship that can move anywhere, fire anywhere, land anywhere, with absolutely no regard for the other half of what makes this game so strategic? Don't have to care where you end up, don't have to care what maneuver you pick, don't even have to suffer if you land smack dab on an asteroid? Just barrel roll off it without even having to take Expert Handling?

Terrain still matters when attacking, which is still how the game is won and lost. And the first time you put Dash on the table, I think you'll see that he still very much cares where he is, and where the asteroids are: barrel roll won't save him in every context, and spending every action to barrel roll is actually a fairly steep cost. And it's also worth noting that it's an ability players are going to pay a lot for. I've thought about this a lot, and I really don't think it's unbalanced or unreasonable to have one pilot, and an expensive one at that, who can dodge asteroids this way.

I think that the ship does a good job of turning the terrain into something aymmetrical, which is interesting and new. It will force me to change my asteroid placement and alter my positioning tactics (I'm also primary Imperial).

+1,000.