Okay, so once again we have a group of new female cards, especially for the Empire.

It's my understanding from the lore (I refuse to call it fluff), that the Empire was speciesist (anti-non-human) as well as sexist in its social orientation. However, in the Empire-according-to-FFG, there are some very prominent female characters. Howlrunner is even the MVP if the 2014 championship stats are correct.

So, does this mean that the Empire is no longer sexist? Does this mean they're slightly less villanous, is it the sign of our more inclusive times, or is FFG responding to the need to make female players feel included, while simultaneously playing to the male desire to see evil female characters?

There very fact that the Empire is anti-non human is why I fly them. Got all that trash around the universe to clean up and the space hippies just get in the way with their granola and eco friendly space cruisers .

For those saying there aren't many notable women in Star Wars.

Mon Mothma, Jan Ors, Ahsoka Tano, Barriss Offee, Aayla Secura, Shaak-Ti, Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Bastila Shan, Mira, Zam Wessel, Kreia, Mirta Gev, Juhani, Atris, Brianna, Visas, Mission Vao, and the list goes on. Those are only the one's I'm familiar with.

As for the topic of The Empire? Oh yes. Very sexist, Very speciest. They really don't want much more than human males in their ranks. That's part of what makes The Rebellion special, and moreso, the good guys. Aliens, Women, no racial borders, you're as likely to see a Togruta pilot or commander in The Rebellion as you are a Sullustan.

The women you see in the Imperial forces are only the ones who were so determined and talented that they managed to rise head and shoulders above the men in their unit and thus were promoted to high position. Notice that Howlrunner, the best swarm pilot by far, is actually a TIE Fighter pilot. TIE Fighters were never flown by elite pilots. Those were selected to fly other TIE series designs which were more advanced or more capable.

Wrong on two accounts. TIE pilots were considered elite, but were trained to view themselves as expendable to match with ideological views of the Empire (and the Empire's view on their military). Also, Stele, Phennir, and Fel all flew TIE fighters. The elite pilots of the Empire flew what was needed for the mission at hand (for example, Stele flew TIEs, Avengers, and Defenders.

This is clearly a very important topic, but there are far more pressing issues that we should be attending to. For example, why is there only one black guy in the whole Star War universe? Not counting Grizz Frix, whose death was only slightly less spectacular than Arvel Crynyd's, or the poor guy who lent his voice talent to Jar Jar.

This is clearly a very important topic, but there are far more pressing issues that we should be attending to. For example, why is there only one black guy in the whole Star War universe? Not counting Grizz Frix, whose death was only slightly less spectacular than Arvel Crynyd's, or the poor guy who lent his voice talent to Jar Jar.

Clearly in that universe a long time ago in a galaxy far far away didn't have the same evolutionary chain of changes in amounts of melanin midichlorians, causing darker skin color to be a rarity. No racism there, there are just fewer dark skinned people. Just look to the desert planet of Tatooine where the non farming, nomadic tusken raiders have pretty much completely covered their skin to avoid sunburn.

Well hard to say if empire is sexist with the novels no longer part of the full canon.

Novel wise they were. Any woman in any important spot in the military was scouted by a commanding officer. Admiral Daala is a key figure and she was "scouted" by tarkin. When she was in charge there were more woman in the fleet.

Empire was sexist in the early EU. It's just xenophobic in later EU.

If you go late enough in the EU they shed sexism and xenophobia. For the time period we're playing in, say within 10 years of the battle of Endor, according the the sources we have (the now non-canon EU literature), it's made very clear that Imperial culture is sexist and xenophobic. But more xenophobic than sexist.

I took Lagomorphia's early/later as referring to RW time - the EU of the late 80s/early 90s, as opposed to the EU of the 2000s.

Was my assumption presumptious?

I was referring to realworld time. Xenophobia is part of Imperial culture and sourcebooks point it out a lot. Sexism varies author to author: for Admiral Daala, sex discrimination against her in the Imperial Academy on Carida is part of her backstory. None of this comes up in Ysanne Isard's backstory. Beyond that, I can't find many examples: the Empire prefers its forces faceless.

So I'd say there's probably sexism in the Imperial military or parts of it, but it's not institutional xenophobia like the Empire's anti-alien bias. Xenophobia's part of the Empire's character, sexism depends on how the author wants to play things. Or at least it did in the old EU, the new one may do things differently.

So ultimately, it's up to you (and you and you and you) if you want to see the Empire as sexist or not. The Empire's Lawful Evil but where it lies between the two is usually a matter of headcanon. For people who prefer it to be more on the Evil side then sexism probably fits very well, for those (like me) who prefer to view it as far closer to the Lawful side sexism fits better as something that comes up but isn't institutional. The EU facts accommodate both.

But to be honest, I think we answered why more female characters are cropping up in the OP.

is it the sign of our more inclusive times

IRL influence.

I'm pretty sure that there are way more imperial women in this game than rebel ones... um... Rebels have what? 2?

There way more then 2 rebel women. There's 2 pilots vs the 1 imp. Then there is about 3-5 crew and each of the teams with the cr90 has a woman on it.

They did play down sexism and up the anti-alien sentiment as things went along. Personally My empire begins and ends with Grand Admiral Thrawn, so anti-alien bias isn't really part of my Imperial forces.

With the Mara Jade and Fleet Officer cards, I definitely think the Empire is still the sexiest.

Jim

This is clearly a very important topic, but there are far more pressing issues that we should be attending to. For example, why is there only one black guy in the whole Star War universe? Not counting Grizz Frix, whose death was only slightly less spectacular than Arvel Crynyd's, or the poor guy who lent his voice talent to Jar Jar.

Clearly in that universe a long time ago in a galaxy far far away didn't have the same evolutionary chain of changes in amounts of melanin midichlorians, causing darker skin color to be a rarity. No racism there, there are just fewer dark skinned people. Just look to the desert planet of Tatooine where the non farming, nomadic tusken raiders have pretty much completely covered their skin to avoid sunburn.

Responding to Wonder: Yeah. And zero Asians of any sort. Not even ass-kicking, racist-stereotype-fulfillment Jedi.

Oh and basically only 1 FFG card ever. Lando.

Responding to Ravncat: You probably meant that as a joke. I hope you did. I also would like you to know its not very funny. Actually, its not funny at all.

No the empire is still filled with biggoted idiots. Granted the rebellion probably is too.

FFG however, is trying to put iconic an dinteresting characters into the game. And so we get Iceheart and Mara Jade. Early EU writers used the bigotry of the empire to establish when a character was hypercapable by showing they'd fought past the bigotry.

Simple as that.

Now where's my Mirrax Crew?

I certainly meant no offense. I was suggesting the lack of inclusion (in the fictional world) doesn't necessarily mean exclusion (by the fictional world, as we are only seeing a slice) and trying to invent a sci fi premise (different evolutionary path) to account for lack of representation (in that fictional world). Just because our (real, physical) world has been plagued with racist beliefs doesn't mean the world of Star Wars has the same issue. Lack of representation (via actors and characters) of gender or skin color is more a fault of the time in which it was produced, even then lando as a character is fairly progressive. I look forward to the day when this entire issue no longer is an issue.

But, you're right, the midichlorian bit was a joke, and it wasn't as funny and didn't come through quite as intended.

The original Star Wars trilogy was filmed in the late 70s and early 80s - a time not noted for equality and fairness. Despite equal rights movements, prejudice against women and non-whites was still pretty widespread and normalised - to a lesser extent, it still is today. See the female characters on the cards? All attractive, all slim, all wearing fairly tight costumes. All illustrated by men, I'd be willing to bet. They even gave a friggin' Mon Calamari a slim, large-breasted female human figure with an alien head. *That* right there is sexism. Same reason female characters in fantasy environments like WoW tend to wear stripperific armour whereas males tend to be in full plate. I could go on, but honestly this is so prevalent that I don't really need to. The exceptions are notable because they're so few - been playing Space Marine on my PC and Lieutenant Mira is handled quite well, she doesn't get undressed at any point, and has a reasonable character that isn't drawn from the usual set of stock female characters in games (evil yet sexy, love interest/sarcastic sidekick, or scantily clad action heroine).

I also remember reading an interview with Sam L Jackson at the time Ep 2 came out, and they asked him about the distinct lack of non-whites in the first film from 1977. He recalled going to see it as a boy, and (this is paraphrased from memory) thinking "where all the brothers at? But then I said to myself, well, they have green people, and orange people, and blue people, I guess they don't *have* to have black people..."

I'm pretty sure that there are way more imperial women in this game than rebel ones... um... Rebels have what? 2?

There way more then 2 rebel women. There's 2 pilots vs the 1 imp. Then there is about 3-5 crew and each of the teams with the cr90 has a woman on it.

1 Imp? Somebody has forgotten Kath Scarlet. In my headcanon, Whisper is a woman too, because reasons.

1 Imp? Somebody has forgotten Kath Scarlet.

You're right I did. I actually went though and counted up all the cards with females on them. Either due to art, or because we know their gender. For that reason Whisper doesn't count.

Imperial Women.

Holwrunner

Kath Scarlet

Rebel Women.

Jan Ors

Ibtisam

Toran Farr

Leia Organa

Neutral - These don't have Rebel or Imperial Only on them.

Recon Agent

Sensor Team

Gunner Team

Engineering Team

That means that the Reb's win 2-1 currently. Interesting to note that all the neutral ones came with Rebel ships.

Wave 5 adds 3 Imperial women, Mara, Fleet Officer and that other one with the Decimator. Rebel aces adds Jan Ors (crew) and for some reason I think that one of the B-Wing pilots was a woman too, but I could be wrong.

So as of Wave 5 it will be either a tie, or perhaps 6-5 in the Rebel's favor.

That reminds me of another reason I'm glad the EU is basically gone... because of casting choices in 70's the Empire is sexist and racist... They're villains right, lets make them more hateable!

creative guys.

That reminds me of another reason I'm glad the EU is basically gone... because of casting choices in 70's the Empire is sexist and racist... They're villains right, lets make them more hateable!

creative guys.

The movies hardily portrayed racism; the only interactivity we are given between your generic Imp officers and non-humans is the scene with the Bounty Hunters in Empire. Even then, the viewer is treated to the Bounty Hunters and doesn't view them in a negative light. The only line spoken is "We don't need their scum!", which is likely referring to the profession itself and not the non-humans aboard ship. Some of them, like Dengar and Boba, are even humanoid.

But the EU actually showed that racism, look no further than the Khrytos Virus. It was literally designed to have a colossal impact on non-humans to not only stretch Rebel resources thinly, but also to make the new Rebellion seem no better than the Empire itself; where the dying citizens would look upon the humans in anger that they were not dying in such a horrific manner.

Interesting work there Vanor, I look forward to seeing more characters introduced in W5! I'm also wondering how Isard will work

The movies hardily portrayed racism; the only interactivity we are given between your generic Imp officers and non-humans is the scene with the Bounty Hunters in Empire.

Not so! What about the detention officer reacting to Chewbacca's supposed capture and incarceration in the Death Star?

What 'thing' do you think he's referring to?

Curse the forum's sudden but inevitable betrayal!

(As in, I goofed and posted the same thing twice.)

The movies hardily portrayed racism; the only interactivity we are given between your generic Imp officers and non-humans is the scene with the Bounty Hunters in Empire.

Not so! What about the detention officer reacting to Chewbacca's supposed capture and incarceration in the Death Star?

What 'thing' do you think he's referring to?

Aaah, good one!

Both Sexism and Racism (Humanism? Specisism?) may not be explicitly mentioned in the movies, but are rather heavily implied. There are neither aliens nor woman represented visually in the films amongst the empire (to my recollection), while in the first film alone the rebels have several powerful woman, and at the least a more open attitude towards aliens. If I had to guess, I'd imagine that this was a stratagem to further darken the empire, along with the facelessness exhibited by solider and pilot alike, and the lack of any real.... sympathetic characters, Vader in ROTJ aside.

These attitudes began to vary from glossed over to outright evolved past as the EU went along, however. At least that is the impression I have, I'll admit its been a while on much of the books, so I could be off.

The movies hardily portrayed racism; the only interactivity we are given between your generic Imp officers and non-humans is the scene with the Bounty Hunters in Empire.

Not so! What about the detention officer reacting to Chewbacca's supposed capture and incarceration in the Death Star?

What 'thing' do you think he's referring to?

The same walking carpet Leia refers to?

These attitudes began to vary from glossed over to outright evolved past as the EU went along, however.

Per the EU. Darth Sidious/The Emperor was a huge bigot, and didn't like aliens or women. The Empire gained that attitude from him. Again this was done mostly to further tie the Empire to Nazi Germany.

But after the death of Sidious, that attitude would naturally start to decline. First off, they didn't have the manpower needed to continue that level of Speciesism, plus that per the EU the most highest ranking Imperial was a Chiss, so that doesn't encourage that type of thing really.

Same goes with sexism, just for practical reasons they couldn't afford to keep competent women from gaining rank, since they lacked for competent people period.

These attitudes began to vary from glossed over to outright evolved past as the EU went along, however.

Per the EU. Darth Sidious/The Emperor was a huge bigot, and didn't like aliens or women. The Empire gained that attitude from him. Again this was done mostly to further tie the Empire to Nazi Germany.But after the death of Sidious, that attitude would naturally start to decline. First off, they didn't have the manpower needed to continue that level of Speciesism, plus that per the EU the most highest ranking Imperial was a Chiss, so that doesn't encourage that type of thing really.Same goes with sexism, just for practical reasons they couldn't afford to keep competent women from gaining rank, since they lacked for competent people period.

Can you really blame him, coming from the same planet as the Gungans?