"Epic points" are simply a prettier, more intuitive way of phrasing "You can run a max of two Huges in an Epic list, and you get a max of 1 CR-90." when you consider they'll make more.
Just because Epic Points range from 1 to 5 does not mean there will be Epics of every cost. I suspect we will never see 1 EP ships (you could run five of them!) or 4/5 EP ships that can't be run with the 2 EPs
If you do a 1 and 4 Epic Point Imperial Ship then the following is true:
1. They effectively look just like the Rebels...i.e. you can field two of them
2. The average is the same as the rebels (2.5 Epic Points)
3. You can explore the scale more, and thus add more wrinkles to the game (however, making something less potent than the Rebel Transport might be a bad idea!)
"Epic points" are simply a prettier, more intuitive way of phrasing "You can run a max of two Huges in an Epic list, and you get a max of 1 CR-90." when you consider they'll make more.
Just because Epic Points range from 1 to 5 does not mean there will be Epics of every cost. I suspect we will never see 1 EP ships (you could run five of them!) or 4/5 EP ships that can't be run with the 2 EPs
It is obvious that I am guessing, based on the structures the game designers bothered to implement.
I realize that just because they made an Epic Point structure does not mean they'll fully utilize it. The mere presence of the Epic Point scale surely doesn't imply they'll never use it fully. That is a silly inference, in my opinion.
The real trick will be to define just what is worthy of a single Epic Point, since the unarmed Rebel Transport is worth 2.
I could see perhaps a smaller Huge ship that doesn't use energy, perhaps? Or a smaller Huge ship that doesn't get to ram things into oblivion? Not sure.
Besides, five Gozanti Cruisers (at only 41m long, perhaps made on a single Huge stand each) would be cool. They could bring with them 20 TIE fighters.
What's not to love about that?
Edited by evanger"Epic points" are simply a prettier, more intuitive way of phrasing "You can run a max of two Huges in an Epic list, and you get a max of 1 CR-90." when you consider they'll make more.
To me, logic suggests this is not true. I don't think they made up the whole notion of Epic Points just to re-phrase the choice: "You can either take 2 Rebel Transports, 1 CR 90, or 1 Rebel Transport and 1 CR 90."
Again, that suspicion on my part proves nothing in terms of whether they'll wind up using more fully the Epic Point scheme they've developed.
These are the sorts of things we can speculate on.
With the epic points it is important to remember that the team epic tourney limits each player to 3 points. That makes it unlikely we'll see a 4 EP ship since it would not be playable in team tournaments. If they don't do a 4EP ship, it it very unlikely they will do a 1 EP one.
With the epic points it is important to remember that the team epic tourney limits each player to 3 points. That makes it unlikely we'll see a 4 EP ship since it would not be playable in team tournaments. If they don't do a 4EP ship, it it very unlikely they will do a 1 EP one.
A decent analysis.
My fear is that FFG will keep going even after the obvious releases are all done and the result will be that they release ships that less people are interested in, but bump up sales by including upgrade cards that are more powerful than the older ones. To be honest, I'd be happy if they did one more proper wave + Imp huge ships + another Aces for each faction (to fix the Advanced!) then stopped. The issue is, that will take them almost up to VII and so I'm sure we'll then see releases from that.
The other problem I have with continuously releasing more and more ships is that you end up with a huge collection of ships where the vast majority just sit gathering dust until the end of time.
My fear is that FFG will keep going even after the obvious releases are all done and the result will be that they release ships that less people are interested in, but bump up sales by including upgrade cards that are more powerful than the older ones. To be honest, I'd be happy if they did one more proper wave + Imp huge ships + another Aces for each faction (to fix the Advanced!) then stopped. The issue is, that will take them almost up to VII and so I'm sure we'll then see releases from that.
I'm not in favor of continuously scraping the bottom of the EU barrel for new ships.
That said, the material that has been coming out in recent waves comes from the video-game side of the EU, but has not drawn from the RPG/novels side as much. I can understand that, given the size of the video-game population, but I think it's also fair to throw some love in the other direction.
Also, I still think that more fringe ships would be interesting, and there are a lot of interesting ships to draw from on that side. However, I don't want to have this thread entice a lot of posts with "no" as the only word of contribution, such as we've seen in other threads dealing with the 'third faction' idea. (Did I just let the cat out of the bag?)
I'd say the TIE Droid feels about right. And a YT-2000, to finish out the YT series.
I don't know. What have we learned?
A short list:
1. FFG is surprising at times. A bit unpredictable.
Only two ships planned for Wave 5. Some ships arrive out of left field: in my opinion this includes the VT-49, along with the HWK-290 and E-Wing. FFG has proven they'll use source material from movies, video games, comic books and novels. A true wide survey of the EU material. Technically lots of stuff to cherry pick from.
Open Questions:
What are the "boundaries" of the game, and why?
Are we sticking (at least mostly) to the Rebellion Era? If we believe in "Legends" canon timelines any more, we'd need the X-Wing Miniatures Game to be set at least 9 years after the Battle of Yavin (i.e. 5 years after the Galactic Civil War is over!). Dropping the E-Wing from the list (but keeping the A-Wing and the TIE Defender) means the game is set at least during Return of the Jedi and no earlier. On the other end of the timeline, we have the YT-1300, a type of ship first seen 40 years before the events of The Phantom Menace. The named version, the Millenium Falcon, was built 28 years before The Phantom Menace. Why don't we have other Prequel ships, again?
Is Wave 5 only two ships because the "Rebel Well" has run dry after YT-2400?
I don't see much in terms of non-Prequel Rebel releases other than a few new items from the Rebels cartoon series (at least the VCX-100 "Ghost").
Guesses:
1. We will see VCX-100 "Ghost" sometime late this year (I bet it will be revealed at GenCon)
2. I think the Imps could use more bounty hunters like Dengar's JumpMaster 5000 Scout Ship Punishing One , Zuckuss & 4-LOM's G1-A starfighter Mist Hunter , and maybe IG-88's Aggressor Assault Fighter IG-2000 .
3. I assume Huge Imperial ships of one type or another are on the way, and I would be surprised if they didn't include the Gozanti Cruiser.
Please stop trying to make 'REBELS' ships happen. It's not going to happen.
As I thought more about this thread and discussion, I realized something else.
Please stop trying to make 'REBELS' ships happen. It's not going to happen.
I wish I were in charge, and could "make things happen".
As it stands, I don't know why Disney wouldn't want them to add new ships to support their new endeavor.
I also don't know why FFG wouldn't want to do so.
Why would you like to avoid them?
I don't know. What have we learned?
A short list:
1. FFG is surprising at times. A bit unpredictable.
Only two ships planned for Wave 5. Some ships arrive out of left field: in my opinion this includes the VT-49, along with the HWK-290 and E-Wing. FFG has proven they'll use source material from movies, video games, comic books and novels. A true wide survey of the EU material. Technically lots of stuff to cherry pick from.
Open Questions:
What are the "boundaries" of the game, and why?
Are we sticking (at least mostly) to the Rebellion Era? If we believe in "Legends" canon timelines any more, we'd need the X-Wing Miniatures Game to be set at least 9 years after the Battle of Yavin (i.e. 5 years after the Galactic Civil War is over!). Dropping the E-Wing from the list (but keeping the A-Wing and the TIE Defender) means the game is set at least during Return of the Jedi and no earlier. On the other end of the timeline, we have the YT-1300, a type of ship first seen 40 years before the events of The Phantom Menace. The named version, the Millenium Falcon, was built 28 years before The Phantom Menace. Why don't we have other Prequel ships, again?
Is Wave 5 only two ships because the "Rebel Well" has run dry after YT-2400?
I don't see much in terms of non-Prequel Rebel releases other than a few new items from the Rebels cartoon series (at least the VCX-100 "Ghost").
Guesses:
1. We will see VCX-100 "Ghost" sometime late this year (I bet it will be revealed at GenCon)
2. I think the Imps could use more bounty hunters like Dengar's JumpMaster 5000 Scout Ship Punishing One , Zuckuss & 4-LOM's G1-A starfighter Mist Hunter , and maybe IG-88's Aggressor Assault Fighter IG-2000 .
3. I assume Huge Imperial ships of one type or another are on the way, and I would be surprised if they didn't include the Gozanti Cruiser.
Please stop trying to make 'REBELS' ships happen. It's not going to happen.
Because they're not originals, and he's one of "those" people, where everything new sucks.
As I have been thinking about this discussion, one thing comes to mind with respect to the "timeline" of this game.
The pilots.
Of course many of them were not alive at the same times as one another, but they are still in the game together. I think that's fine, game-wise, but it does shed some light on a certain laxness with respect to the timeline, etc.
For instance, Jek Porkins wouldn't be flying with beside an A-Wing, as he died 4 years before the craft was first flown.
I guess what I am saying is I don't quite understand why what is not included is so rigidly avoided. It's not like this game is firmly placed in between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. This game is a bit more amorphous than that with respect to the timeline.
Perhaps it is the E-Wing's inclusion that is really throwing me for a loop; it is a New Republic era fighter that would have never been flown by people deemed "Rebels"...at least not during the active Rebellion.
If you can include that, then what can't you include? (and why?)
Because they're not originals, and he's one of "those" people, where everything new sucks.
In my estimation, he should hate the E-Wing, then.
And the HWK-290, Imperial Aces, maybe the Z-95, TIE Defender, TIE Phantom, YT-2400, VT-49 and maybe the Rebel Aces repaints (as at least one of them is based on a Ralph McQuarrie concept art piece of the A-Wing that wasn't used in the movies).
As I have been thinking about this discussion, one thing comes to mind with respect to the "timeline" of this game.
The pilots.
Of course many of them were not alive at the same times as one another, but they are still in the game together. I think that's fine, game-wise, but it does shed some light on a certain laxness with respect to the timeline, etc.
For instance, Jek Porkins wouldn't be flying with beside an A-Wing, as he died 4 years before the craft was first flown.
I guess what I am saying is I don't quite understand why what is not included is so rigidly avoided. It's not like this game is firmly placed in between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. This game is a bit more amorphous than that with respect to the timeline.
Perhaps it is the E-Wing's inclusion that is really throwing me for a loop; it is a New Republic era fighter that would have never been flown by people deemed "Rebels"...at least not during the active Rebellion.
If you can include that, then what can't you include? (and why?)
What are you talking about. Jake Farrel flew an A-wing at the Battle of Yavin, and through a trench of crystals on Tatooine.(See Rebel Assault 1)As I have been thinking about this discussion, one thing comes to mind with respect to the "timeline" of this game.
The pilots.
Of course many of them were not alive at the same times as one another, but they are still in the game together. I think that's fine, game-wise, but it does shed some light on a certain laxness with respect to the timeline, etc.
For instance, Jek Porkins wouldn't be flying with beside an A-Wing, as he died 4 years before the craft was first flown.
I guess what I am saying is I don't quite understand why what is not included is so rigidly avoided. It's not like this game is firmly placed in between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. This game is a bit more amorphous than that with respect to the timeline.
Perhaps it is the E-Wing's inclusion that is really throwing me for a loop; it is a New Republic era fighter that would have never been flown by people deemed "Rebels"...at least not during the active Rebellion.
If you can include that, then what can't you include? (and why?)
I guess the good people at Wookiepedia and elsewhere have missed this early appearance by an A-Wing.
I have the listed date for the craft as being 4 ABY. I may be wrong, however, and perhaps (as that sort of data is now "Legends" canon, at best) it is no longer "true".
I am reminded of a George Lucas quote: "[star Wars] isn't about answers."
I agree strongly that adding the e-wing to the game but not allowing any prequel/clone wars ships (yet) doesn't make much sense. It would make even less sense if they add ep7 ships before prequel ships as the ST is 30some years after the OT whereas the PT is only 20some years before the OT.
I think the StarViper/Virago is a reasonable expectation as the "missing" small-base Imperial ship, if only on the basis that we're getting Dash Rendar and the YT-2400 and so it acts as a foil to his ship.
people like evanger are one reason more not to read through some forum posts. dude i dont see this game ending next years or so iam sure that FFG wont stop with a product that is running so well for them i mean look at games workshop, they still have the sisters of battle as an army option even if no one or few people are buying them. that alone shows us and me that it would be stupid to just shut a game down like a alpha/beta project or something. just sayin keep going FFG and get ma money ;P
Its not about a length of time, it's about a specific conflict, Empire vs Rebellion.
If the new movies fit the description then it will be a no brainer.
To me, the Rebellion Era is obviously about the Galactic Civil War.
Good guy Rebel Alliance on one side, bad guy Empire on the other.
Empire == Emperor, the ultimate bad guy.
Hence, the war is effectively over at the conclusion of RotJ when Palpatine is killed.
The war, in some respects, starts somewhere in the Prequel Era.
All this, taken together, would suggest anything from the OT and Prequels is about (or could be more-or-less about) the Galactic Civil War, or at least its origins.
Whatever happens 30 years after the effective conclusion of that conflict (i.e. Episode VII and beyond) is not part of the "Rebellion Era", even if they are still flying Falcons and X-Wings around.
This actually raises a great point...I have no idea what the Sequel Trilogy will be about. My suspicion is that it is an entirely new saga, unrelated to Emperor Palpatine et al.
iam not sure if u read all the books but now iam spoilering u ^^ the empire won at the end ;P in episode 9 rebels lost and the galaxy was 100% empire ^^
I don't know. What have we learned?
A short list:
1. FFG is surprising at times. A bit unpredictable.
Only two ships planned for Wave 5. Some ships arrive out of left field: in my opinion this includes the VT-49, along with the HWK-290 and E-Wing. FFG has proven they'll use source material from movies, video games, comic books and novels. A true wide survey of the EU material. Technically lots of stuff to cherry pick from.
Open Questions:
What are the "boundaries" of the game, and why?
Are we sticking (at least mostly) to the Rebellion Era? If we believe in "Legends" canon timelines any more, we'd need the X-Wing Miniatures Game to be set at least 9 years after the Battle of Yavin (i.e. 5 years after the Galactic Civil War is over!). Dropping the E-Wing from the list (but keeping the A-Wing and the TIE Defender) means the game is set at least during Return of the Jedi and no earlier. On the other end of the timeline, we have the YT-1300, a type of ship first seen 40 years before the events of The Phantom Menace. The named version, the Millenium Falcon, was built 28 years before The Phantom Menace. Why don't we have other Prequel ships, again?
Is Wave 5 only two ships because the "Rebel Well" has run dry after YT-2400?
I don't see much in terms of non-Prequel Rebel releases other than a few new items from the Rebels cartoon series (at least the VCX-100 "Ghost").
Guesses:
1. We will see VCX-100 "Ghost" sometime late this year (I bet it will be revealed at GenCon)
2. I think the Imps could use more bounty hunters like Dengar's JumpMaster 5000 Scout Ship Punishing One , Zuckuss & 4-LOM's G1-A starfighter Mist Hunter , and maybe IG-88's Aggressor Assault Fighter IG-2000 .
3. I assume Huge Imperial ships of one type or another are on the way, and I would be surprised if they didn't include the Gozanti Cruiser.
the thing with all the bounty hunters id say they should belong to a 3rd faction called outlaws were u can find many smugglers hips, pirates ships and bounty hunter ships itsn ot like that empire used any bounty hunter present only boba fett cause he was one of the best in that timeline and did u ever play empire at war forces of corruption ? u see dark hound from bosk and that ig-2000 flown on the side of the pirates ;P
In regards to the tech arguments.
Tech never changes in SW. Bug me as that does, literally nothing would stop The Ebon Hawk from appearing. Seriously, class 1.0 Hyperdrive 4k years before the battle of Yavin.
Technology arguments don't matter. It's Star Wars, where no real advancements ever happen.
people like evanger are one reason more not to read through some forum posts.
I really don't understand why you (and others like you) have to constantly chime in with irrelevant comments.
The title of this thread is "What Have We Learned?" Perhaps you could post: "Nothing." That would at least be relevant to the topic at hand. Another thing to do is ignore this entire thread, if you are so inclined.
Please realize that this forum is a gathering place for tons of different viewpoints.
For me, the "speculation about future ships" and the attempt to understand "where the designers are coming from" is fun.
Perhaps (gasp!) even more fun that playing this game on the tabletop!
That might not be true for you. That's fine. No problem.
No idea why you need to seek out the threads where people are having a different type of fun than you and try to "fix it" with your "I'll buy whatever FFG puts out!!!!!!!!!! You should too!!!!!!!!!! If not, you're silly and doing it wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!" style posts.
Don't get me wrong...you are obviously also free to post whatever you want. Please, start another thread and complain about my thread. I won't be reading that one.
Maybe I'm over-reacting? Possibly.
I think the StarViper/Virago is a reasonable expectation as the "missing" small-base Imperial ship, if only on the basis that we're getting Dash Rendar and the YT-2400 and so it acts as a foil to his ship.
I think this is definitely a strong contender.