Any reason I couldn't expose on the Deci?

That card can finally be awesome!

Sorry folks. Even though you've removed the on-paper penalty for Exposing yourself (heh), it still adds less expected damage as a single action than a Focus.

But on the PS 8 dude with the pseudo-focus thingy, or it backed up with Fleet Officer support, or with Kagi (I think?) passing out TLs

Havn't read another post yet... but whoa...

And what's up with the MASSIVE scheduled releases this year? I know the Imperial Aces debacle was an anomaly but this is getting crazy...~$450 worth of ships just to get 1 of everything that has come out Imperial Aces to Wave 5/Rebel Aces?

Imperial Aces $30

Rebel Transport $60

Wave Four $60

Tantive IV $90

Rebel Aces $30

Wave Five $70

That's only ("only") $340 MSRP for one of everything. But you're right. We're getting $340 worth of product in about seven months' time (mid-March to late September), while we got $272 worth of retail product in the preceding 19 months (mid-August 2012 through mid-March 2014 ... Core Set, Wave One, Dice Pack, Wave Two and Wave Three).

So what do you think about the Debri tokens. Will they just be asteroid replacements, or maybe new rules that let you place them in the spot of a destroyed ship for more dynamic obstacles? The VT-49 looks like it comes with a rules card I don't recognize (middle one). Maybe it's for Using Debri Tokens? Though if so you think it would be with the YT-2400 too.

I can think of several possibilities.

1. There's some kind of "debris dropper" upgrade.

2. These two ships come with a new rule that lets you swap asteroids for debris tokens during setup.

3. The debris tokens work just like asteroids.

4. There are missions included with these two ships that feature debris tokens. (I think this is the most likely.)

I love the look of these and their upgrades.

I dont get the Outrider card as much as some of you seem to though. Most cannons are limited in range in some way. So if I was goign against the Outrider and they had taken autoblaster or HLC, I'd just get in close real fast and stay at range 1 as much as possible, or keep way away and flank it all the time at range 3.

The rest are awesome. I cant wait to do Phantom lists with Mara Jade, Fleet Officers and Tacticians. Cant wait to see what Isaard's rules are too.

And to put the new Rebels in the B-Wing with crew upgrade.

Also, is that a new sensors card in the Imp set? Looks like it says Tactical Jammer or Target Jammer.

MathWing time!

I can at least compare these ships against the YT-1300, which is the only other large base ship with a 360 degree arc.

Disclaimers:

• We don't know the dials. I used the Firespray dial coefficient as a placeholder for both, which I give a coefficient of 0.94.
• The VT-49 has 0 agility. I don't have my scripts handy to determine how much more vulnerable that makes it vs 1 agility, so I'll assume a placeholder value for now and then revisit this later tonight when I have access to my scripts. For now, I'm using a value of about 0.40 for 0 dice, vs 0.549 for 1 dice, 0.731 for 2, 1.00 for 3 dice, and 1.38 for 4 dice. These numbers actually all have a range that is meta dependent, and this is the central value. This placeholder value follows the ratios along the progression from 4 to 1 agility dice (about a 30% drop per dice), so is probably fairly accurate.
• Up to this point, the only other ship with the ability to fire all 360 degrees is the YT-1300. I have been using a placeholder coefficient of 1.6, somewhat arbitrarily, for this ability. This doesn't affect the jousting value, but it does affect the overall point efficiency. Of course this coefficient could be totally wrong, as we have only had the YT-1300 to go by to this point. However they will all use the same coefficient, so this doesn't affect a relative comparison.
• The YT-2400 is a 2 base attack ship, but it has a cannon. That's a big deal and is unique. Predicted total point efficiency is going to be highly uncertain, as this is very unique. However I tried to analyze it with the cannon slot filled with a HLC, and then also with the Outrider title.
• (edit): Barrel Roll as an action on a large ship is a new thing. I'm weighting it as twice as valuable as barrel roll on a small base ship.
• (edit): Outrider + HLC + 360 degree turret is hard to compute, since a small fraction of the time you will have nobody in range 2-3 to shoot at.

First, for reference we have the YT-1300, which is the only other ship with a 360 degree firing solution.

ORS: 2/1/6/4

Jousting Value: 16.2 - 17.1 (16.9 typical meta)

PS1 Cost: 27

Jousting Efficiency: 60.1% - 63.3% (62.4% typical meta)

Predicted overall points efficiency: 82% - 86.3% (85.1% typical meta)

Durability (normalized to TIE Fighter): 1.79 - 1.97 (1.92 typical meta)

Named YT-1300: 3/1/8/5

Jousting Value: 24.6 - 26.7 (25.9 typical meta)

PS1 Cost: 37 (equivalent cost, extrapolated from 42 points for named PS5)

Jousting Efficiency: 66.5% - 72.3% (70.0% typical meta)

Predicted overall points efficiency: 90.7% - 98.5% (95.4% typical meta)

Durability (normalized to TIE Fighter): 2.32 - 2.56 (2.49 typical meta)

Now onto the new ships.

Warning: Preliminary ESTIMATED stats below. See disclaimers.

YT-2400: 2/2/5/5

1 Crew, Missile, Cannon

Dial placeholder: Firespray

Jousting Value: 19.4 - 19.9 (19.8 typical meta)

PS1 Cost: 29? (equivalent cost, extrapolated from 36 points for named PS7)

Jousting Efficiency: 66.9% - 68.6% (68.1% typical meta)

Predicted overall points efficiency: 94.5% - 96.9% (96.2% typical meta)

Durability (normalized to TIE Fighter): 2.52 - 2.64 (2.60 typical meta)

Assumptions:

• I have been using a coefficient of 1.01 for a cannon slot on a 3 attack ship. (basically no effect)
• I used a coefficient of 1.1 for a cannon slot on a 2 attack ship.

Conclusion: Without anything equipped in the cannon slot, the jousting value will be closer to the named YT-1300 than the ORS. Overall value is possibly on par with a named YT-1300, but it is really hard to figure out how to weight that cannon slot generically.

YT-2400 + HLC with no 360 arc: 4*/2/5/5

*4 @ range 2-3, 2(+1) at range 1.

Here are the numbers for the YT-2400 with a HLC and no 360 degree arc. The attack coefficient increases due to the HLC, and the arc coefficient goes to 1.0.

Assumption: I haven't yet run the numbers on how effective a HLC is with TWO base attack dice, only with THREE base attack dice. For these numbers I assumed that HLC on 2 base attack dice is 90% as effective as HLC on 3 base attack dice. For reference:

HLC damage output on ship with 3 base attack: 2.39 - 2.62 (2.49 typical meta), relative to 2 base attack.

So, that puts us at:

YT-2400 + HLC with no 360 arc: 4*/2/5/5

Jousting Value: 28.9 - 31.1 (30.1 typical meta)

PS1 Cost: 36? (equivalent cost, extrapolated from 36 points for named PS7, +7 for HLC)

Jousting Efficiency: 80.4% - 86.4% (83.6% typical meta)

Predicted overall points efficiency: 84.2% - 90.4% (87.5% typical meta)

Durability (normalized to TIE Fighter): 2.52 - 2.64 (2.60 typical meta)

Conclusion: Heavy Laser Cannon will more than double your expected damage output, but the loss of 360 degree firing doesn't quite make it auto-include. The jousting efficiency goes up, but the loss of the 1.6 arc coefficient makes the overall efficiency go down.

However, then we have the Outrider title, which gives the arc back!

YT-2400 + HLC with no 360 arc: 4*/2/5/5

* Since the ship has a 360 degree arc, it should usually be able to use the HLC. For an attack value here, I used the damage of a HLC on a 3 attack ship, as if it is always able to throw 4 attack dice. This does NOT consider that it will occasionally have no shots if it has no enemies in range 2-3. So these numbers should be considered a maximum possible value, and should be a little lower. The 360 degree arc will ensure that the ship usually has a shot, but that's also already reflected in the 1.6 arc coefficient, so to some extent this is double counting.

Jousting Value: 30.6 - 32.8 (31.8 typical meta)

PS1 Cost: 41? (equivalent cost, extrapolated from 36 points for named PS7, +7 for HLC + 5 for title)

Jousting Efficiency: 74.6% - 80.1% (77.5% typical meta)

Predicted overall points efficiency: 99.7% - 107.1% (103.7% typical meta)

Durability (normalized to TIE Fighter): 2.52 - 2.64 (2.60 typical meta)

Conclusion: Outrider + Heavy Laser cannon looks to be very good. You can easily build a squad around this. Note that you can't use Gunner here. You'll occasionally have to use barrel roll just to guarantee that you have a range 2-3 shot with your 360 degree HLC.

VT-49: 3/0/12/4

3 Crew, Torpedo, Bomb

Assumption: I use a coefficient of 1.075 for EACH crew member, so the net is (1.075)^3 = 1.2423

Dial: Firespray (placeholder)

Jousting Value: 23.1 - 25.1 (24.3 typical meta)

PS1 Cost: 38? (equivalent cost, extrapolated from 46 points for named PS8)

Jousting Efficiency: 60.8% - 66.0% (64.0% typical meta)

Predicted overall points efficiency: 95.2% - 91.9% (89.1% typical meta)

Durability (normalized to TIE Fighter): 2.06 - 2.27 (2.21 typical meta)

Conclusion: 12/4 hull/shields is nice, but it actually has less durability than the YT-2400, named YT-1300, or Firepsray due to its 0 agility. (estimated results). Its 64% jousting efficiency really can't touch the Firespray's 85% jousting efficiency. However, it has a 360 degree firing solution, which is going to make it a good counter to TIE Phantoms, and increases its overall efficiency. You're really paying for those 3 crew slots on this ship, so you will need to use most or all of its Crew slots to really take advantage of it.

Edit: P.S. I haven't read any of the comments on the thread here yet.

Edit again: I missed the barrel roll on the YT-2400. I'm weighting Barrel Roll normally as +0.035 towards the net action coefficient, I'm weighting it twice that on a large ship now.

Or, perhaps Imperial doctrine dictates that they'll dump their garbage before making the jump to hyperspace.

Then we can release the docking claw and just float away...

Oh, and Boba Fett can join us too.

THAT's what the debris tokens are for.

Okay, 34 pts for the ultimate action passer

Colonel Jendon + FCS + Weapon Engineer + Fleet Officer

Shoot a target to gain a TL and a second one on the ship of your choice. During Activation Phase, give one of your target lock to a ship in Range 1 and a Focus to 2 ship in range 1-2. Optional, ST-321 for 3pts so you can take a TL on any ship on the board and build up your TL reserve from the start! ;P

So what do you think about the Debri tokens. Will they just be asteroid replacements, or maybe new rules that let you place them in the spot of a destroyed ship for more dynamic obstacles? The VT-49 looks like it comes with a rules card I don't recognize (middle one). Maybe it's for Using Debri Tokens? Though if so you think it would be with the YT-2400 too.

I can think of several possibilities.

1. There's some kind of "debris dropper" upgrade.

2. These two ships come with a new rule that lets you swap asteroids for debris tokens during setup.

3. The debris tokens work just like asteroids.

4. There are missions included with these two ships that feature debris tokens. (I think this is the most likely.)

5. When this ship is destroyed deploy the debris with unknown rules.

The only thing that the Falcon has that the Decimator doesn't is 1 agility die, and the ability to get Evade tokens.

The Decimator has the Falcon completely outclassed as far as HP and Upgrades go.

The Lvl 8 pilot costs the exact same as Han Solo, by the bye.

I bet the Decimator has a Lambda level dial though. Falcon is still in the game. Does look like a green bank on its dial though.

I've said for a long time destroyed ships should leave clutter on the board that counts as obstacles. Here we go!

Conclusion: Outrider + Heavy Laser cannon looks to be very good. You can easily build a squad around this. Note that you can't use Gunner here.

Outrider + HLC has a problem at range 1. Can that figure into the calculation?

Yeah especially with the Phantom's and how they can move around. You could easily keep yourself 'under the guns' basically. Whoever uses that upgrade for the Outrider had better get practising with movement and keeping in range 2-3 of ships.

5. When this ship is destroyed deploy the debris with unknown rules.

Possible. I'm skeptical because the debris is recognizable as ships other than the Decimator and YT-2400, at least the sides we can see.

I've said for a long time destroyed ships should leave clutter on the board that counts as obstacles. Here we go!

I wouldn't expect that to be an official rule, but as a house rule they could be a lot of fun.

5. When this ship is destroyed deploy the debris with unknown rules.

Possible. I'm skeptical because the debris is recognizable as ships other than the Decimator and YT-2400, at least the sides we can see.

And it looks like both ships have uniquely SHAPED debris, so it's doubtful that they're mirror images of each other..

Conclusion: Outrider + Heavy Laser cannon looks to be very good. You can easily build a squad around this. Note that you can't use Gunner here.

Outrider + HLC has a problem at range 1. Can that figure into the calculation?

That's a bit of an understatement, mate. "Can't Attack" is more than a mere "Problem".

Conclusion: 12/4 hull/shields is nice, but it actually has less durability than the YT-2400, named YT-1300, or Firepsray due to its 0 agility. (estimated results).

That 1 die is expected to block 3 hits over the Falcon's relatively short lifetime, ehh?

Also, why is the Firespray's dial a 1> coefficient?

It is, as of Wave 3, tied with the X-Wing for the most typical dial.

In fact, it is EXACTLY an X-Wing's dial, but with an extra Koiogran!

The only thing that the Falcon has that the Decimator doesn't is 1 agility die, and the ability to get Evade tokens.

The Decimator has the Falcon completely outclassed as far as HP and Upgrades go.

The Lvl 8 pilot costs the exact same as Han Solo, by the bye.

I bet the Decimator has a Lambda level dial though. Falcon is still in the game. Does look like a green bank on its dial though.

I'm guessing a dial on par with the Bomber. Including a 5-speed K-turn.

Just noticed that the Outrider has 2 Agi. That really makes it a nice tough ship. Also, all the unique Decimators have Elite Talents. Now, I'm really wanting to know what the Elite Talents are. Ruthless looks like it could be fun.

Long thread but man, I'll buy ANYTHING they release for this game at this point.

Except the ugly ass E-wing.

Outrider: 2 dice ship with a cannon upgrade.

Has Autoblaster found a home?

Any reason I couldn't expose on the Deci?

That card can finally be awesome!

Sorry folks. Even though you've removed the on-paper penalty for Exposing yourself (heh), it still adds less expected damage as a single action than a Focus.

But on the PS 8 dude with the pseudo-focus thingy, or it backed up with Fleet Officer support, or with Kagi (I think?) passing out TLs

Its jendon not kagi

The only thing that the Falcon has that the Decimator doesn't is 1 agility die, and the ability to get Evade tokens.

The Decimator has the Falcon completely outclassed as far as HP and Upgrades go.

The Lvl 8 pilot costs the exact same as Han Solo, by the bye.

The Falcon will most likely have a better dial between the two.

With a 360 firing arc, im not too concerned by this

Plus, Falcon Title evade's aside... my 1 agi dice from a YT generally only negates 3-4 hits a game anyway so just having the extra 3 hp for the decimator seems like its going to be about the same as far as 'table lifespan' goes

My current thoughts that are subject to and will almost certainly changed with more information, but as of right now im thinkin running the lowest pilot skill decimator is going to be my most popular choice, kind of the same situation with the OGP lamda shuttle

Anbody think that the last Imp Only Crew is Jerrek from Jedi Knight? Because that has me REALLY pumped.

I'm loving these. I plan on running a titless outrider with heavy Laser most of the time. That ability to barely move with a HLC, but to peg incoming ships when they try to flank is pretty great, and the Title strikes me as Obnoxious. Technically it can run as a Super Y-Wing, which is cool too, but at the point cost it seems too high.

All things considered, Buying 1 of each. Loving both of them.

And to those who say the Falcons dial is average, any ship that can turn and overlap its own base isn't average. The Falcon has one of the best dials in the game.

The only thing that the Falcon has that the Decimator doesn't is 1 agility die, and the ability to get Evade tokens.

The Decimator has the Falcon completely outclassed as far as HP and Upgrades go.

The Lvl 8 pilot costs the exact same as Han Solo, by the bye.

I bet the Decimator has a Lambda level dial though. Falcon is still in the game. Does look like a green bank on its dial though.

For what it's worth, the Decimator picture shows a 2-green bank.

I'm guessing a dial on par with the Bomber. Including a 5-speed K-turn.

I personally don't think the Decimator will have a K-Turn... not that he needs it anyway.

If I remember correctly, there are around 36 cards in a damage deck.

So killing a Decimator will blow through about a third of the damage cards. Wow.

Not that it will make much of a difference, but still ... Wow.

33 IIRC

anyone else wanna slap determination +hull upgrade on that sucker? 13 hull and you ignore all pilot crits maybe hide a small BSP with Draw their fire behind it too lol

Anyone mention Ion Torpedo? It has to be pretty cheap, 2 points?

Does it?

I would guess 3pts at a minimum to = the cost of the Ion missiles