I've got a couple of questions regarding this: first of all, is fly/drive maneuver mandatory each round to control the ship? and second, can someone give me an example of what this means: "one starship maneuver to move within close range of target or object". I understand the meaning, but since range is not used as difficulty in combat, I fail to see when a pilot will use this maneuver and for what.

Thank you!

Fly/Drive is generally used to change position relative to other participants in the scene. It does not need to be done every round, as basic maneuvering that generally leaves relative positions unchanged is just assumed without any action or maneuver. Moving within Close might be used to put another participant between you and an opponent - this is basically like taking cover in space.

Fly/drive is not mandatory each round. It is used to change your position relative to other ships/vehicles position. Generally, to put your self in position to avoid them or target them.

Range is not used to calculate difficulty to hit in combat, but all of the weapons are constrained by the range of their effectiveness. Some ship weapons have a range of "Close" which I think could be considered "dogfighting" or as close as you can get and be firing ship to ship. You have to use a maneuver to fly/drive from short range to close range, in order to use ship/vehicle weapons whose range is "close". Not using the maneuver to close the distance would leave you at short range and out of range of your close range weapons.

In the basic rulebook on p. 230 you will see a list of ship weapons in table 7-1. On that table eight of the weapons have a range of "close".

Hope that helps. It took me several reads and playing through multiple space combats to get the hang of it.

Ian

I assume you guys are saying it isn't mandatory unless you're flying through a hazardous (to the ship) environment.

I may be seeing it incorrectly (what the maneuver represents, not the mechanics of it (don't have a clue there - we've not done a lot in space)), but the pilot leaving the cockpit to do some manual repairs while in an asteroid field seems... off.

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

I assume you guys are saying it isn't mandatory unless you're flying through a hazardous (to the ship) environment.

I may be seeing it incorrectly (what the maneuver represents, not the mechanics of it (don't have a clue there - we've not done a lot in space)), but the pilot leaving the cockpit to do some manual repairs while in an asteroid field seems... off.

You're not seeing it incorrectly, just a smidge too literally. The pilot is intended to be able to do whatever he's doing (in addition to flying the ship) from the cockpit, with the setback dice added to show he's dividing his attention between avoiding asteroids and do whatever else he's doing.

Essentially "not crashing" is an incidental that requires you to be in the cockpit, changing range bands is a maneuver, unless it's in hazardous terrain and then it's an action.

The whole Idea here is the pilot as a player, is supposed to have freedom to operate beyond just being the piloting check roller.

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

It's a viable house rule, but I can see a cascade effect here where this would cause problems in certain possible situations like a squad of one-man fighters.

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

I'm pretty sure that's not the case with RAW. Hazardous terrain makes you have to make a piloting check when you make a maneuver, but doesn't mandate a specific maneuver be taken.

So that check would be more a reaction then, not a maneuver?

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

I'm pretty sure that's not the case with RAW. Hazardous terrain makes you have to make a piloting check when you make a maneuver, but doesn't mandate a specific maneuver be taken.

Let me see if i get this correctly: the fly/drive maneuver says "this starship maneuver reflects the simple act of moving the ship or vehicle closer or further away from something at its current speed". So suppose you are in combat and there's one big chunk of debris in your way. The GM could ask for this maneuver for avoiding it. And if the debris is because you are in an asteroid field, that maneuver would require a check. Is this correct?

I don't doubt that you guys are right, rules wise, but doesn't that take some of sense of danger out of it?

Pilot: "I'm going to lose them in the asteroid field." [rolls dice, gets a single success]

GM: "Okay, they follow you in." [Rolls dice] "One crashes, the rest are right there with you, amid the chaotic storm of space rock."

Pilot: "That's a difficult roll to make every round. I think I'll stay where I am and take pot shots."

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

I'm pretty sure that's not the case with RAW. Hazardous terrain makes you have to make a piloting check when you make a maneuver, but doesn't mandate a specific maneuver be taken.

Let me see if i get this correctly: the fly/drive maneuver says "this starship maneuver reflects the simple act of moving the ship or vehicle closer or further away from something at its current speed". So suppose you are in combat and there's one big chunk of debris in your way. The GM could ask for this maneuver for avoiding it. And if the debris is because you are in an asteroid field, that maneuver would require a check. Is this correct?

If you are changing range bands yep, pretty sure the roll also means its upgraded to an action. Also remember range bands are really really big, like measured in kilometers big, so that would be a gigantic space-hulk of a chunk of debris, which just makes it cooler.

I don't doubt that you guys are right, rules wise, but doesn't that take some of sense of danger out of it?

Pilot: "I'm going to lose them in the asteroid field." [rolls dice, gets a single success]

GM: "Okay, they follow you in." [Rolls dice] "One crashes, the rest are right there with you, amid the chaotic storm of space rock."

Pilot: "That's a difficult roll to make every round. I think I'll stay where I am and take pot shots."

It can, work that way, but also remember you can get still like " ignore terrain effects" with advantage. In practice even a couple ranks in piloting is enough to make that happen. Also don't forget the crafts handling.

I don't doubt that you guys are right, rules wise, but doesn't that take some of sense of danger out of it?

Pilot: "I'm going to lose them in the asteroid field." [rolls dice, gets a single success]

GM: "Okay, they follow you in." [Rolls dice] "One crashes, the rest are right there with you, amid the chaotic storm of space rock."

Pilot: "That's a difficult roll to make every round. I think I'll stay where I am and take pot shots."

Has the pilot discussed it with the crew?.............they might be ok with the decision to stop bobbing and weaving about the space rock................

I don't doubt that you guys are right, rules wise, but doesn't that take some of sense of danger out of it?

Pilot: "I'm going to lose them in the asteroid field." [rolls dice, gets a single success]

GM: "Okay, they follow you in." [Rolls dice] "One crashes, the rest are right there with you, amid the chaotic storm of space rock."

Pilot: "That's a difficult roll to make every round. I think I'll stay where I am and take pot shots."

Has the pilot discussed it with the crew?.............they might be ok with the decision to stop bobbing and weaving about the space rock................

I just struggle to get out of the mindset that the rocks are still moving. I can't quite satisfy the voice in my head that's saying "Someone should be working real hard to avoid the rocks that are hurtling towards you." Just seems like a situation that requires a lot of attention. The rules may be that way to stop the pilot getting bored (okay, I don't quite buy that - hazardous terrain should be enough to keep both the Player and Character on their toes), but its snapping my suspenders of disbelief a little.

I don't doubt that you guys are right, rules wise, but doesn't that take some of sense of danger out of it?

Pilot: "I'm going to lose them in the asteroid field." [rolls dice, gets a single success]

GM: "Okay, they follow you in." [Rolls dice] "One crashes, the rest are right there with you, amid the chaotic storm of space rock."

Pilot: "That's a difficult roll to make every round. I think I'll stay where I am and take pot shots."

Has the pilot discussed it with the crew?.............they might be ok with the decision to stop bobbing and weaving about the space rock................

I just struggle to get out of the mindset that the rocks are still moving. I can't quite satisfy the voice in my head that's saying "Someone should be working real hard to avoid the rocks that are hurtling towards you." Just seems like a situation that requires a lot of attention. The rules may be that way to stop the pilot getting bored (okay, I don't quite buy that - hazardous terrain should be enough to keep both the Player and Character on their toes), but its snapping my suspenders of disbelief a little.

Turn to page 236, look at the threat chart long and hard and put it into the context of an encounter's narrative and that little voice in your head should come around. The idea is to make the asteroids a part of the action, not the whole action. Detach yourself from the paradigm that other games established: the assumption that the moment you decide to adjust the radio, your car careens off the road and crashes.

The way that threat and despair (generated from any check) can effect a space encounter, can easily apply to asteroid effects, which is why flying in asteroids requires more setback dice to be added to the pool for pretty much everything (pg 240, table 7-8). Failing GtA check with a threat can mean you slow down trying to avoid a collision. A threated Gunnery check can blow asteroid bits everywhere making the pilots next check tougher, either because he's avoiding the debris, or because he didn't and is now flying through gravel and it's causing other problems on board. That check doesn't have to be an actual piloting check, it might be sensors, or even manual repairs ("I pull the fire extinguisher level for engine #2").

After all if you think about it, using the sensors, making "manual repairs," activating the countermeasures, or any number of other actions are all things a pilot will be expected to do while still flying the craft. Just because he has to not-crash while doing it doesn't make it impossible.

I don't see that you have to take a maneuver or action in difficult terrain. But if you are in a situation where you could get clobbered without dodging (like the Falcon in an asteroid field with no pilot), roll a pilot check with no green or yellow dice. Just the difficulty dice. They should be getting hammered hard enough that someone should step up to pilot.

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

I'm pretty sure that's not the case with RAW. Hazardous terrain makes you have to make a piloting check when you make a maneuver, but doesn't mandate a specific maneuver be taken.

Let me see if i get this correctly: the fly/drive maneuver says "this starship maneuver reflects the simple act of moving the ship or vehicle closer or further away from something at its current speed". So suppose you are in combat and there's one big chunk of debris in your way. The GM could ask for this maneuver for avoiding it. And if the debris is because you are in an asteroid field, that maneuver would require a check. Is this correct?

If you are changing range bands yep, pretty sure the roll also means its upgraded to an action.

By RAW it isn't upgraded to an action. Of course the GM can set whatever restrictions they want on maneuvering through crazy terrain.

As far as the "no maneuver" problem, though the rules don't address it, I would make a ruling that the pilot would have to roll anyway – or they could forgo the roll and accept whatever happened.

True enough. Hazardous terrain does require Fly/Drive each turn (unless you're at Speed 0).

I'm pretty sure that's not the case with RAW. Hazardous terrain makes you have to make a piloting check when you make a maneuver, but doesn't mandate a specific maneuver be taken.

Let me see if i get this correctly: the fly/drive maneuver says "this starship maneuver reflects the simple act of moving the ship or vehicle closer or further away from something at its current speed". So suppose you are in combat and there's one big chunk of debris in your way. The GM could ask for this maneuver for avoiding it. And if the debris is because you are in an asteroid field, that maneuver would require a check. Is this correct?

If you are changing range bands yep, pretty sure the roll also means its upgraded to an action.

By RAW it isn't upgraded to an action. Of course the GM can set whatever restrictions they want on maneuvering through crazy terrain.

As far as the "no maneuver" problem, though the rules don't address it, I would make a ruling that the pilot would have to roll anyway – or they could forgo the roll and accept whatever happened.

I think I heard that on an O66 or something, but reviewing the rules, you're correct, fly/driving through difficult terrain is a rolled-for maneuver, not an action. And that's actually kinda a big deal.....