I'm putting together a PDF for a variant playstyle and I'm looking for suggestions for squad-building and deployment limitations. These will be generated randomly (by rolling d100) and there will be incentives for accepting them, and penalties for rejecting them. I'll explain how it all works later on, but for now I'm looking for interesting sorts of limitations. They can be Rebel- or Imperial-specific, or not. Here are some examples:

• Your squad may not contain any Large ships.

• Your squad may not contain any TIE Fighters. (I have all of these sorts of limitations covered, including Wave 4).

• Your squad may not contain any unique upgrades.

I'm also hoping for some conditions such as:

• All of your opponent's ships start play with 2 stress tokens each.

• When deploying, your opponent's ships may not be placed closer than Range 1 to one another, if possible.

Hopefully that gives you the idea of what I'm looking for. Throw some ideas at me.

Obviously, all of these can apply to you or your opponent...

Each ship in your squad must start in base contact with at least one other ship. (Pinpoint Jump)

Your opponent places all asteroids. (Enemy Territory)

Your squad may not contain any secondary weapons. (Weapon Malfunction)

Your squad may not contain more then one ship of any type. (The Misfits)

Your squad can only contain one ship type. (Unity)

Your squad may not contain any unique pilots. (The Rookies)

Your ships begin play with an ion token. (Engine Troubles)

Your squad may only contain two ships. (The Elites)

I'm putting together a PDF for a variant playstyle and I'm looking for suggestions for squad-building and deployment limitations. These will be generated randomly (by rolling d100) and there will be incentives for accepting them, and penalties for rejecting them. I'll explain how it all works later on, but for now I'm looking for interesting sorts of limitations. They can be Rebel- or Imperial-specific, or not. Here are some examples:

Interesting!

Care to share the purpose of this exercise?

- Only hyperspace-capable ships (Rebels only - so, no Z-95s)

- Only hyperdrive class-1 ships (Rebels only - so, only Xs, Ys, and As) - say, for quick missions.

- Only fighter craft (so, no YTs, HWKs, transports, C-90s, GR-75s, shuttles, Firesprays, etc.)

- No fighter craft (see above, but in reverse)

My thoughts are of rules-alterations of varying sorts. Some might even be balanced!

• Your squad may ignore the unique pilot/crew limitation (but not other upgrades) (Clone Wars)
  
• Your squad may contain one pilot or crew of the opposing faction (Jedi Mind-Trick)
  
• Your squad's Pilot Skill must all match, and must include a minimum of 1 Unique Pilot. (Birds of a Feather).
  
• Your opponent may place your ships anywhere on the board at the start of the match [Limitations: Cannot have Obstacles or the Edge of the Field be in Range 1 and in your Firing Arc.] (Ambush!)
  
• For the first 4 turns, do not assign your ships a maneuver. They perform a White 0 Stop for those turns. (Need a Jump?)
  
• Your ships cost 5 points more, and gain the ability "If you have performed a 4-5 Forward action for two turns in a row, you may gain 2 stress to re-deploy at Range 1 from your side." (Punch it!)
  
• Your upgrades that include the word "Discard" in their text cost 3 less. (Mad Bomber)
  
• Whenever you would Discard an upgrade, you may roll 1 attack die. On a [Crit] result, you may keep it anyway (Expanded Munition Stores)
  
• All squads play with reversed Attack and Agility values. Non-Upgrade modifiers are also effected, though Upgrades are not. (Bizzaro-wing)

my roommate and i have been discussing this and thought that it would be neat to have two separate rolls. There seem to be two clear categories of modification being suggested. First those that modify your build and second those that come into effect at the start or during game play. Using the below process it could make things interesting. This also keeps you and your opponent from putting together a build that will negate the in game effect you may have rolled.

1. Roll for unique build limitations.

2. create builds.

3. roll for game modification.

4. play

Great suggestions, thanks.

Care to share the purpose of this exercise?

Just to add some variety to squad-building and dogfight setups. A poster recently mentioned that they felt overwhelmed with all of the options, and I'm a big believer that limitations breed creativity. So I'm working on a way to change the squad-building and deployment processes somewhat for folks who want to try something a little different from the standard dogfight setup, without breaking the game or changing any of the in-play rules.

I'm still making refinements, but essentially here's how it works:

Both players (it's still a two-player match, presumably Rebels vs. Imperials) start with 80 squad points each and no limitations. They flip a coin, and the winner rolls d100 and checks the result on the table provided. The result will be either a limitation (such as "Your squad may not contain any Large ships. +15 squad points.") or a benefit of some kind ("After your opponent places their ships, place 2 stress tokens on each. -5 squad points.") If you accept the result, you write it down, modify your squad points total accordingly. If you reject the result, you lose 5 squad points. (If a new result conflicts or contradicts a previous result, you must reject it, but you lose no points. And if you roll a duplicate result, you roll again.) The other player then takes their turn rolling for a result, and this goes back and forth until one player is satisfied with their limitations and decides to stop, or whenever one player has 110 squad points or greater, whichever comes first. When this happens, the other player takes one last turn, and then both players reduce their squad points totals to 110 (if necessary) and build their squads using their respective limitations.

It's entirely possible for point totals to be asymmetrical at the end of this process, and that is intentional (I see it as a feature, not a bug). It's not meant to be perfectly fair or balanced, and it is possible to "game" the initial setup to one's advantage. For example, you could be way ahead on squad points and decide to stop, leaving your opponent with just one more roll -- but I'm trying to set things up so that it's not easy to clobber your opponent in this way and I think players will recognize if things are way out of balance and start over.

Some of the results may alter ship placement and scenario setup, and those conditions or decisions are made when the time comes. Once squad-building and placement are complete, the game should play out using the standard rules.

I should have the PDF ready within a few hours.

Traitor: One of your pilots has defected! At the beginning of turn 3, your opponent randomly selects one of your ships. (could restrict to small ship only or generic pilot only). Your opponent gains control of that ship for the remainder of the game.

Sabotage: Your opponent may select one upgrade cards from your squadron. That upgrade has been disabled, and must be discarded.

Covering Fire: Your opponent chooses one of the non-player sides of the play area. One of his capital ships has deployed just outside the engagement zone. Any of your ships ending a manoeuvre within range 1-2 of that board edge has strayed into firing range. Resolve one attack against your ship with 3 dice, rolling for defense as normal.

Guess these fall more into the game modification category...

Kay, my last suggestions don't really fit with your idea. How about;

Supply Shortage: All upgrade cards count as unique.

Munition Stockpile: Reduce the cost of all secondary weapons by 1 or 2 pts.

Limited Talent Pool: You may only include 1 unique pilot in your squadron.

Aces Wild: All unique pilots may deploy anywhere on the board that is not within range 1 of an obstacle or enemy ship.

Hopefully more like what you're looking for

Cool idea BTW, looking forward to seeing the final list!

So here's the PDF:

http://outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Random-Squad-Conditions.pdf

Let me know what you think.

I wasn't able to implement all of the suggestions in this thread, but I'll consider finding a way to use some of them in a revised version, or a different one, or something. Usually, my goal with these sorts of variant rules is to make changes around the standard rules without greatly upsetting the way the game is supposed to run once the ships are on the table. The combined effects of changing the values of cards, or altering the way certain cards work, or mixing Epic format ships into the standard dogfight rules, and similarly major changes is more than I can keep track of, and that's really the main reason why they might not have made the cut. But I think a lot of the suggestions in this thread would be great to try out in insolation, as parts of campaigns or specific scenarios. There are lots of ways to play this game beyond the standard 100-point dogfight, and I'm interested in exploring lots of variations.

This document isn't set in stone, so if any other viable ideas come along I'll try to add them. Thanks again!

Just to add some variety to squad-building and dogfight setups. A poster recently mentioned that they felt overwhelmed with all of the options, and I'm a big believer that limitations breed creativity. So I'm working on a way to change the squad-building and deployment processes somewhat for folks who want to try something a little different from the standard dogfight setup, without breaking the game or changing any of the in-play rules.

From the other side (in this case Blail Blerg), I've been getting the criticism that people think that the general gist of the campaign ideas floating around (I know this is not one, and this doesn't hold for your galactic campaign), is that they're too limiting.

I think that while all of us here on the forum are drawn to this game, there are still very different notions of what different types of people are looking to get out of it. I was discussing that in this thread a week (or two) ago. I'm guessing that you and I have similar itches that we want to see scratched, but we may be outliers. Thankfully there's the internet which allows people with similar interests to connect with one another.

Like with anything, I think it's worthwhile for people to know what they want, and what appeals to them. Also, for them to communicate that to others, so that like-minded people can find eachother.

Okay, that's a bit of a tangent... but one that I think bears reiterating. For my part, I think you're right about those limitations. I also like the limitations because they model more realistic conditions of warfare.

I'm still making refinements, but essentially here's how it works:

Both players (it's still a two-player match, presumably Rebels vs. Imperials) start with 80 squad points each and no limitations. They flip a coin, and the winner rolls d100 and checks the result on the table provided.

...

I should have the PDF ready within a few hours.

That's interesting. On my own project, I've been working out the post-battle variables, including some that are probability based. This introduces a factor that puts the randomness before the battle. I like that - a lot! I'm also getting a migraine about how to implement this into an online system, given what I've already built.

Well as for game types you don't have to do a tournament standard 100 pt list. Heck I see some that try a 75 point list and others that go for a 150 or even 200 point list.

Well as for game types you don't have to do a tournament standard 100 pt list. Heck I see some that try a 75 point list and others that go for a 150 or even 200 point list.

Sure, but changing the points total doesn't change the fact that as long as you have the full suite of options available to you, there are some combos that are not likely to end up on the table unless you deliberately handicap yourself. The standard dogfight format is designed for parity, and parity doesn't necessarily equal a good game. For example, in the original Axis & Allies board game, the Axis powers only win about a third of time -- but it's very satisfying to win as the underdog.

Not only that, but campaigns and other variant play styles give us a chance to run less-than-optimal ships and combos in order to experience more of what the game has to offer, and sometimes to indulge in thematic elements that this game lacks.

Updated - Random Squad Conditions:

http://www.outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Random-Squad-Conditions.pdf

There was a small issue with how to deal with duplicates that is corrected with this update. I've also made a couple of minor changes to the results on the table.

I don't like the -5 Rejection cost. Why not have it be something like: Roll three times, and select which ones you want to use. That way, theres still a maximum possible amount (Starting+45), but if you don't like all your conditions, your not (starting-15). Would speed up squadbuilding, as you don't have to keep rolling till you hit a cetian amount, but there are still a lot of possible combinations to consider.

Hopefully that gives you the idea of what I'm looking for. Throw some ideas at me.

The normal TO at the FLGS and I have been working on a format that will shake up how list builders work. Your list must follow the following guidelines:

-120 points Maximum

-Your list must be comprised of a combination of at least 2 different ship types.

-You must choose one of the following list structures:

1. Three ships. Each ship may be a maximum of Forty (40) Points, including all upgrades.

2. Four ships. Each ship may be a maximum of Thirty (30) Points, including all upgrades.

3. Five ships. Each ship may be a maximum of Twenty-Four (24) Points, including all upgrades.

-You may not include any "Large Base Ships" into your list, such as the YT-1300, YT-2400, Firespray-31, Lambda Class Shuttle, or VT-49 Decimator.

-If you do not spend the full allotted points for a single ship in your chosen list structure, you MAY NOT use those leftover points on another ship. For instance, in the Three Forty Point Ships structure, if you have two 38 point ships, the third ship still cannot cost over Forty Points, leaving your list at 116 Points.

-You have ninety minutes to complete your dogfight. When time is called, you may complete the current round through the end of the End Phase.

-All other tournament rules apply as normal, unless there is an opposing rule in the above.

I don't like the -5 Rejection cost. Why not have it be something like: Roll three times, and select which ones you want to use. That way, theres still a maximum possible amount (Starting+45), but if you don't like all your conditions, your not (starting-15). Would speed up squadbuilding, as you don't have to keep rolling till you hit a cetian amount, but there are still a lot of possible combinations to consider.

Sure, you could do that. If I was doing things that way I think I'd reduce the +15 squad points bonus to +10 squad points instead. I'd have each player roll three times, and then I'd have the players take turns declaring one of their conditions to accept or reject.

You could do the condition accepting/rejecting phase secretly instead, declaring which conditions you accepted and which you rejected only after revealing your squads.

I've just updated this PDF with some quick handicaps, so you can roll once and get squad-building right away.

http://outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Random-Squad-Conditions.pdf

I like the list, I'll have to try it sometime. But I noticed what might be a typo on result 42-44. It gives the Imperials +5 points and the Rebels +15 points by not allowing unique upgrades.

Compared to Rebels, Imperials have a very small number of unique upgrades available, so it's not much of a handicap. Or have I overlooked something?

Or have I overlooked something?

It seems not. I just noticed that for every other entery I saw, the point +/- for both sides were the same, when I saw one was 5, and other was 15, I thought maybe you just forgot the 1 for the Imperial side.

But I did consider that you intended it to be different values since as you point out it hurts the Reb's more then the Imps. But I figured I'd post just in case it was a typo.

Without reading the list yet, I apologize for any duplication.

-Roll one attack die for each ship; suffer the result.
-Subtract 3 shield tokens from your squad; if you have no ships with shields, distribute three damage cards to your squad.

-Firing at Range 3 grants defender two extra defense dice (instead of one).

-Each ship with ordnance slots must fill all slots with the appropriate basic card (Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedoes, Seismic Charge).

-Opponent's ships may each roll a defense die and take a token (Focus or Evade) matching the roll; that token may be kept until spent.

I didn't have time to read through your whole list, but here are a few quick ideas.

-Each of your ships must have at least one Modification (Tinkerers)

-Your squad must contain one (and only one) named pilot. All other pilots must be PS3 or lower. (Boot camp)

-Your squad may only be comprised of ships with one or more Missile or Torpedo slot. At least one Missile of Torpedo must be taken for each ship (Bunker Busters)

-You must include at least four of the following in your squad (as pilots or upgrades): Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia Organa, C-3PO, R2-D2 (Super Friends: The Original Trilogy)

-You must deploy on an adjacent side to your opponant, rather than the opposite side. You mist select which adjacent side, prior to asteroid placement.

-You may not include any ships with health (Hull + Shields) of more than 5 (Light Brigade)

-You may not include any ships with an Attack value less than 3 (Heavy Hitters)

Some really great suggestions there. I'll expand the list with some of those. Thanks!

Updated version is here, with several new options:

http://www.outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Random-Squad-Conditions.pdf