You do realize that this internet community we have here represents an extreme minority of the player base, don't you? I'm sure there are plenty of people who play that feel no need to scour the internet for every pertinent detail regarding unreleased product.

Sorry, but based on my experience you're just wrong about this. Everyone I've played in store or tournament games with has also kept up with all the information that is posted online, and new releases are a common subject of conversation during games. You might have a point if we were talking about people who just play an occasional game at home with their kids, but those kind of players aren't showing up at major tournaments. In the context of regionals it's a safe assumption that virtually every potential player knows all about the new releases, and the lazy few who don't are a tiny and irrelevant minority that doesn't deserve much sympathy.

Well, I guess it's a good thing that reality isn't based upon iPeregrine's first hand experiences, or else the world would be a much smaller and less diverse place.

So you think you would have no problem if you pre ordered your minis online, then they're released and yours don't arrive in time before the game. Then you play against squads with new product that you own but don't have in hand. IPeregrine seems to be alone on a pedestal of what he perceives to be the 'vast majority' that waiting for the official products to be released is 'lazy'. I suppose I'm just on the other side of the fence on that one. I feel it's important to actually own the ship in question that I'm playing, the way the game was meant to be played. I don't cut out cardboard bases and say 'that big piece over there is the Tantive'. With that type logic, it should be fair to release the wave minutes before the tournament started with the expectation that everyone picks up their ships right then and there and rolls straight to competitive play. You don't think people will balk at this?

Just call me the lazy, tiny and irrelevant minority that doesn't deserve much sympathy i suppose...ouch!

Oh no. I don't own enough Tie Fighters to run a full swarm. Players that do have things I don't. That's unfair and shouldn't be allow'd in the tournament.

Supply issues and player knowledge are not competitive plays field of worry. Any player is more than capable of getting the ships they need before a regional if the ships are released before. Just because they chose not to order online months beforehand doesn't means the couldn't. Not having practice time is the same. I never have time to practice a squad before I run it because I don't want to worry about Vassal/feed my obsession to that level. That doesn't mean I should be calling "UNFAIR!" Nobody should need a month to get used to a wave of 4 ships. There's no painting time needed. Nothing. Just buy and unpack. Having a long window of illegality never made sense to me. Granted, neither did the long window of Faq delay. It wouldn't be hard to have Wave 4's FAQ out now if they wanted with every rules question we've had pop up.

Well, there's also the notion that suddenly introducing new ships with new upgrade cards is going to slow games down as people have questions, need clarifications, and new rules interact -- even if you think it's not a big deal people won't have had a chance to play against or perhaps purchase the product.

Some Regional Events have already been completed. I would think the primary reason would be to have a level playing field across the Regional Season. Those who win a regional with Wave 3 and those who are allowed to win with Wave 4 isn't exactly apples to apples when they meet at the next level. This may not be the case. Just a thought.

Kudos to Wonderwaagh he brought his A game in this forum ;-)

It's the only kind of game I have.

Some Regional Events have already been completed. I would think the primary reason would be to have a level playing field across the Regional Season. Those who win a regional with Wave 3 and those who are allowed to win with Wave 4 isn't exactly apples to apples when they meet at the next level. This may not be the case. Just a thought.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

Like I said. The FAQ should be out now. But TO's have the right to make rulings, and So long as they are consistant across the tournament the tournament itself is fair.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

Like I said. The FAQ should be out now. But TO's have the right to make rulings, and So long as they are consistant across the tournament the tournament itself is fair.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

Like I said. The FAQ should be out now. But TO's have the right to make rulings, and So long as they are consistant across the tournament the tournament itself is fair.

So, how would you feel about Imdaar ships being used (or lender out) ?Based on your previous post , it seems like you'd be fine with that.

As for the FAQ, there are sti

Or banning ships currently released? As long as it's consistent across the tournament it's fair? Not personally a fan of TOs defining the boundaries of what's legal and what's not at higher-tier events like regionals.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

Like I said. The FAQ should be out now. But TO's have the right to make rulings, and So long as they are consistant across the tournament the tournament itself is fair.

So, how would you feel about Imdaar ships being used (or lender out) ?Based on your previous post , it seems like you'd be fine with that.

As for the FAQ, there are sti

That said, the current FAQ does not allow for Imdaar Alpha ships so they should not be legal. It does allow for post release wave 4 the day wave 4 releases.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

Like I said. The FAQ should be out now. But TO's have the right to make rulings, and So long as they are consistant across the tournament the tournament itself is fair.

But it's not, and they're never released until a few months after the ships are released. So you're saying you would have no qualm with: if your interpretation of Garven was correct and the TOs interpretation was incorrect and he made a ruling that caused you to be eliminated from the championship, come to find out you were right all along... I personally would be frustrated by that, and I think you might be too considering you want the FAQs released sooner.

Along same lines of logic - a new product being released days before an event... With sell outs and back logs and lack of availability that comes with new releases, you wouldn't be frustrated if you couldn't get your hands on the same products that some were afforded?

Well, considering Imdaar Alpha was a specific event and that was the structure of the tournament, and the rules were clear from the beginning, that was part of the fun of the event. Regionals are a different animal. That's part of the issue here, IMO, is there is a lack of clarity and the potential exists for the possibility of a banning.

But, I just wanted to see if you were consistent there.

So with a lack of a FAQ a whole tournament could be lost that could have gone the other way after an official ruling is released. Nobody here was saying a month... The original question was how much time do you think is appropriate? Then guys started to get a little personal as things sometimes get heated. @animar and iPeregrine, I get it, your opinion is 'no time' is appropriate. Others disagree with you and have equally logical approaches to your way of viewing things. I think at least a week before official release is fair, and my personal preference is two weeks. Turns out I'm not in a lazy minority because that is exactly what FFGs has done with their own regional championship game... I'm just surprised that they haven't asked other vendors who are also hosting regionals to do the same.

Like I said. The FAQ should be out now. But TO's have the right to make rulings, and So long as they are consistant across the tournament the tournament itself is fair.

But it's not, and they're never released until a few months after the ships are released. So you're saying you would have no qualm with: if your interpretation of Garven was correct and the TOs interpretation was incorrect and he made a ruling that caused you to be eliminated from the championship, come to find out you were right all along... I personally would be frustrated by that, and I think you might be too considering you want the FAQs released sooner.

Along same lines of logic - a new product being released days before an event... With sell outs and back logs and lack of availability that comes with new releases, you wouldn't be frustrated if you couldn't get your hands on the same products that some were afforded?

I don't care if a TO makes a different ruling than the eventual FFG one. It happens. I trust they went with their best judgement and treated it as fair across the tournament. If I didn't trust them with that how could I possibly trust them to make any rulings?

Fair enough. Agree to disagree I suppose. I and some others think there should be a small grace period, you and some others do not. Granted, FFG TO and organizers happen to agree with my side based upon the calls that they have made, but they didn't project that ruling out to everyone else. I agree that ships should be legal to use as soon as possible so people can enjoy them, but the original question is a poll on opinions in what people think that timeline should be.

From the Tournament Rules Document:

The only way to accurately measure player skill is to have all players playing the same game.

If everyone at a given event has equal access to a given wave, then everyone at that event is playing the same game.

The fact that other events didn't have them doesn't really change anything people still competed with what they had at the time. So everyone has played the same game, the one they had at the time.

The fact that an event in Iowa used Wave 4 doesn't have any impact on who won at the event in New York...

The only way to accurately measure player skill is to have all players playing the same game.

If everyone at a given event has equal access to a given wave, then everyone at that event is playing the same game.The fact that other events didn't have them doesn't really change anything people still competed with what they had at the time. So everyone has played the same game, the one they had at the time.The fact that an event in Iowa used Wave 4 doesn't have any impact on who won at the event in New York...

In regards to a grace period.

As far as wave 4 is concerned, I think it's covered by the prerelease.

Beyond that there is no good way to handle it given the way FFG moves.

IF we wait till the FAQ it's too long.

If we wait for distribution to complete and it runs out of stock the wait could be months. Also, too long.

If we give it a week it doesn't change any factors the tournament should be worrying about. That being the FFG interpretation of the rules. This renders the wait meaningless except for comforting a few players.

If we leave it to the end of a regionals season it leaves stock not moving to an extent, and frankly irritates a large section of the playerbase. In addition it can take far too long.

So we're stuck with delays that are way too long, or delays that mean nothing. So why delay? Let us play.(Heh, rhyming.)

Besides, availability really isn't that big of an issue in North America. Other than the odd bit of HWK shortage, Wave 3 had no issues with availability. There is no reason to expect the shortages we saw with Wave 1 or 2. And again, FFG covers the international players with their caveat that they can do what is best depending on availability.

I'd say a delay of 1 week wouldn't be bad.

Most events run on the weekend and it seems FFG likes getting stuff into the stores towards the end of the week. That means many people will be visiting the store to get stuff on the same day the tournament runs.

If you wait a week, then everyone had a chance to pick them up, open them, sort cards, ect... Before the event starts that next weekend.

But I don't think more then a week is needed, at least not for X-Wing. If there was still stuff unknown like cards not spoiled and the like then perhaps. But as it is, everyone has ample time to get to know Wave 4 long before they show up in a tournament.

Sure there may be people new to the game who don't know as much about Wave X... But I figure that's not a good reason to stop others from using the new ships. If they're going to sign up for a Regional Tournament, then they should do some homework before hand and figure out what's out there and what they might run into.

If they can't be bothered to do that... Then they don't take it seriously enough that seeing new ships at the Tournament is going to cause them to give up on the game completely.

I'm so tired of these arguments that say that Wave 4 should be illegal for the whole year because SOME regionals have occurred already. As long as everyone at the same tournament has access to the same stuff, there is no unfairness.

No one is saying that. They are saying that there should be a small grace period after release and a big tournament. Regardless of what FFG has stated in the tournament rules, they themselves chose to exclude wave 4 from their own regionals. That is a pretty clear indication to me their stance on the fairness of a short grace period. All I was saying is, should other regionals stores follow suit?