This week I'm be in a 150 pt each 2v2 game where I am Imperials.

I've come up with two lists that I've yet to fly which of the two would you pick?

1)

Darth Vader + Swarm Tactics

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Hull Upgrade

Black Sq P + Swarm Tactics x5

Black Sq P + Draw their Fire

Total 149 Pts

So while they focus on Darth or Howl first they suffer the effects of either PS9 or PS8 + rerolls my guess Howl will be targeted first but at 4 Hull and atleast 2 Crits pulled off her she should atleast see round 2. Also with one point off I'll most likely get Initiative.

2)

Colonel Jendon + HLC + ST-321 + Advanced Sensors

Omicron Pilot + HLC + Advanced Sensors

Omicron Pilot + HLC

Omicron Pilot + HLC

Capt Jonus + Swarm Tactics

Total 150 Pts

Rear two will have AS w/ Jonus in center, would be great first 2 rounds of firepower and a 2x2 of shuttles will effectively block all but the longest of kturns forcing others into turns but the lack of my turning ability makes me reconsider. Transports are also an issue but with 4 HLCs + rerolls I should kill it one turn.

So which would you fly?

If you're going against a transport or vette, I suggest the hlc. They will eat them up

I would go with the first. Maybe pepper in a scimitar or 2. If you know you're flying vs. Huges the 2nd...maybe.

Agreed.

And given the choice of the two? I'd go list 2 - if for no other reason than to actually field 4 Alabaster Space Bisons

Edit: Ninja'd. I'm actually agreeing with Krynn. Sorry RW.

list 1.

Sinc eoyu have Darth Vader giving 9 and Howlrunner giving 8, i think you should have two ships without swarm tactics as final recipients.

Also, the increase in number of pilots attacking at ps8 or 9 is incredible focus fire potential. very good list.

focus firing becomes even more effective with even more ships.

I dont like list 2 without engine upgrades.

I like List 2 substantially better.

Darth Vader is too expensive and too ineffectual to be a good flanker. You can get 2 Interceptors for his price, and they're far better for the job in nearly every way.

You've spent a huge number of points for a Pilot Skill bid in your Swarm.

I would suggest ditching all of the Swarm Tactics from your Blacks.

If you want to keep the Pilot Skill bid, go with Veterans Instinct on all of them. This is cheaper, and doesn't fall apart if Howlrunner dies.

If you want to maximize the life of your fleet, give all of them Draw Their Fire. Each crit passed to an undamaged TIE is practically a crit negated, as the intended target isn't dead yet. More to the point, once Howlrunner dies, they can go pull crits away from your ally's ships, keeping your combined threat-level astronomically high.

Alternatively, demote all of the Black Squadrons for Academies, for massive amounts of points.

My similar take on this fleet uses the Draw Their Fire option on 5 Black Squadrons, Howlrunner with PTL and Stealth Device, and 2x Royal Guard Interceptors, each with Push the Limit, at 149.

List 2 is a lot closer to being great.

However, Jendon's a bit of a waste of points internally, as Jonus' re-rolls don't stack with his Target Locks.

Demoting him and ditching ST-321 gives ALL of your shuttles the Advanced Sensors.

However, I would also ditch Swarm Tactics off of Jonus, to give all of your shuttles an Engine Upgrade instead of Advanced Sensors. This gets rid of the Shuttle's biggest weakness (mobility), and actually turns it into a non-obvious strength.

Alternatively, you could spend that 4 points per shuttle in the form of 2x Merc Co-Pilots.

Each Merc Co-Pilot triggers separately, and both trigger after the HLC's de-crittening.

1. Fire HLC at R3.

2. Turn all Crits into Hits.

3. Re-roll up to 2 dice with Jonus.

4. Spend a Focus Token if necessary.

5. Turn 2 Hits into Crits.

6. Rinse and Repeat

Agreed.

And given the choice of the two? I'd go list 2 - if for no other reason than to actually field 4 Alabaster Space Bisons

Edit: Ninja'd. I'm actually agreeing with Krynn. Sorry RW.

lol wouldn't Sable be proud

list 1.

Sinc eoyu have Darth Vader giving 9 and Howlrunner giving 8, i think you should have two ships without swarm tactics as final recipients.

Also, the increase in number of pilots attacking at ps8 or 9 is incredible focus fire potential. very good list.

focus firing becomes even more effective with even more ships.

I dont like list 2 without engine upgrades.

My thoughts exactly on list 2, see below for list 1

I like List 2 substantially better.

Darth Vader is too expensive and too ineffectual to be a good flanker. You can get 2 Interceptors for his price, and they're far better for the job in nearly every way.

You've spent a huge number of points for a Pilot Skill bid in your Swarm.

I would suggest ditching all of the Swarm Tactics from your Blacks.

If you want to keep the Pilot Skill bid, go with Veterans Instinct on all of them. This is cheaper, and doesn't fall apart if Howlrunner dies.

If you want to maximize the life of your fleet, give all of them Draw Their Fire. Each crit passed to an undamaged TIE is practically a crit negated, as the intended target isn't dead yet. More to the point, once Howlrunner dies, they can go pull crits away from your ally's ships, keeping your combined threat-level astronomically high.

Alternatively, demote all of the Black Squadrons for Academies, for massive amounts of points.

My similar take on this fleet uses the Draw Their Fire option on 5 Black Squadrons, Howlrunner with PTL and Stealth Device, and 2x Royal Guard Interceptors, each with Push the Limit, at 149.

List 2 is a lot closer to being great.

...

Vader isn't a flanker all Ties fly in formation hes there to force a slighty harder choice either his or howlrunner either way the PS chain will continue, besides with his two actions being focus/evade & shields he perfect for keeping the chain alive since I'm sure they would go for howl first.

I appreciate the advice just the purpose was atleast two rounds of PS9/8 to completely kill 1 ship or two each round hence I'm looking to keep the chain Though i do ,make valid points about mutliple DtFs.

As for list two engine upgrade is too expensive to outfit all with unless I drop a HLC or shuttle both losing the spirit of the list, I fully expect to crash repeated in his front wave and create a 2 large base column blocking him and AS is needed for that as well as stalls and red maneuvers And ST on Jonus is ensure that I can kill lower PS5 or less without return fire.The Title on Jendon was to help my teammate with target locks any round that I am not in combat.

Overall thanks for your feedback

List 2 is great until you have to turn around 4 shuttles. I will tell you the Corvette eats shuttles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Especially if they are packing a Single Turbolaser. Doubling 1 agility doesn't help much and he can potentially kill a shuttle before it even gets in range. I prefer Firesprays in Epic. I can do a pass on the big boat and still shoot at him while I turn around.

Ya, the vette eats shuttles, but he can't kill them all,and probably not before they can all shoot, and if you have 3-4 ships with hlc shooting at a target that gets 0 evades, they drop very quickly.

If you don't kill it the first round, then the second will be likely. Plus if your hurting him bag enough, then he will route all his energy to his shields, leaving his weapons uncharged

Also, sure there is no engine upgrade on them, but again, if 4 ships with hlc can destroy his huge ship, then that is a huge part of his fleet. If it can be done early game, you should have him beat.

Ya they turn slow, but they are not the only target on the battlefield, and Shuttles don't need engine boost to be useful

Imo vader does kind of suck. He has a sweet ability, but the two attack dice really sucks.

Imo vader does kind of suck. He has a sweet ability, but the two attack dice really sucks.

Yeah, I wish they had padded his stats a bit (with Attack, not necessarily Shields or Hull), like they do when you look at Chewie compared to an Outer Rim Smuggler.

Now that might make Vader a bit more fun to fly.

I like list 2 better 5 ships with 46HP vs 8 ships with 26, I think at that scale you will want the 20 more HP

Agreed.

And given the choice of the two? I'd go list 2 - if for no other reason than to actually field 4 Alabaster Space Bisons

Edit: Ninja'd. I'm actually agreeing with Krynn. Sorry RW.

lol wouldn't Sable be proud

list 1.

Sinc eoyu have Darth Vader giving 9 and Howlrunner giving 8, i think you should have two ships without swarm tactics as final recipients.

Also, the increase in number of pilots attacking at ps8 or 9 is incredible focus fire potential. very good list.

focus firing becomes even more effective with even more ships.

I dont like list 2 without engine upgrades.

My thoughts exactly on list 2, see below for list 1

I like List 2 substantially better.

Darth Vader is too expensive and too ineffectual to be a good flanker. You can get 2 Interceptors for his price, and they're far better for the job in nearly every way.

You've spent a huge number of points for a Pilot Skill bid in your Swarm.

I would suggest ditching all of the Swarm Tactics from your Blacks.

If you want to keep the Pilot Skill bid, go with Veterans Instinct on all of them. This is cheaper, and doesn't fall apart if Howlrunner dies.

If you want to maximize the life of your fleet, give all of them Draw Their Fire. Each crit passed to an undamaged TIE is practically a crit negated, as the intended target isn't dead yet. More to the point, once Howlrunner dies, they can go pull crits away from your ally's ships, keeping your combined threat-level astronomically high.

Alternatively, demote all of the Black Squadrons for Academies, for massive amounts of points.

My similar take on this fleet uses the Draw Their Fire option on 5 Black Squadrons, Howlrunner with PTL and Stealth Device, and 2x Royal Guard Interceptors, each with Push the Limit, at 149.

List 2 is a lot closer to being great.

...

Vader isn't a flanker all Ties fly in formation hes there to force a slighty harder choice either his or howlrunner either way the PS chain will continue, besides with his two actions being focus/evade & shields he perfect for keeping the chain alive since I'm sure they would go for howl first.

I appreciate the advice just the purpose was atleast two rounds of PS9/8 to completely kill 1 ship or two each round hence I'm looking to keep the chain Though i do ,make valid points about mutliple DtFs.

As for list two engine upgrade is too expensive to outfit all with unless I drop a HLC or shuttle both losing the spirit of the list, I fully expect to crash repeated in his front wave and create a 2 large base column blocking him and AS is needed for that as well as stalls and red maneuvers And ST on Jonus is ensure that I can kill lower PS5 or less without return fire.The Title on Jendon was to help my teammate with target locks any round that I am not in combat.

Overall thanks for your feedback

exactly whoever read vader as a flanker didnt see the point. he def flies in formation.

That said losing howl will still really suck. I think the VI version would work well too. its amazing how balnced that is though. 2 more points for ps 8 or 9, or 1 pt for ps6

if you've ever played starctaft, youll know how important it is to have everyone firing on the first roun before the opponent. this increases in exponential benefit with more ships

I like list 2 better 5 ships with 46HP vs 8 ships with 26, I think at that scale you will want the 20 more HP

Yes but thats 46 HP with 6 Green dice w/ PS 6, 6, 6 ,2 ,2

Compared to 26 HP with 24 Green dice w/ PS 8+ x8

tough call indeed

You guys are awesome you got me thinking about lambdas moving and more importantly not moving to maximize the HLC so I revised list 2

as always your input is more than welcomed

Colonel Jendon + HLC + Advanced Sensors

Omicron Pilot + HLC + Advanced Sensors

Omicron Pilot + HLC

Capt Yorr + HLC

Capt Jonus + Swarm Tactics

Total 150 Pts

A slight change but this means the front two shuttles can stall three times (first round Yorr takes 2 stress goes green forward, crashes then pulls 2 more stress to his max of 3 then 3rd round front bisons take stress) consecutively since Yorr can pull their stress while also improving the PS to 6, 6, 6, 4, 2. With three stalls I should be able to prolong HLC and thus add more value to jonus, while it'll be the last thing my opponent will think and will buy me ever more time vs huge ships.

thanks guys.

I'm still worried about mobility here. If you camp a corner, you're simply going to play into the Corvette's hooves. It can move super slow and will start in range 5, meaning that it's just pounding away at your formation, which can't fire back. You risk losing everything with your castle strategy for no gain. The corvette moves super slow, all the while building up lots of energy.

I think you're better off with this:

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)

Total: 150

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Here you use your Albino Space Cows independently. Don't put them in a formation, spread them across the board. They are some of the fastest ships in the game now. You can easily swarm and overwhelm the Corvette from all sides. The FCS/Gunner combo means after the first shot you can do some respectable damage to it, while it also means you can effectively engage snub fighters.

I'm still worried about mobility here. If you camp a corner, you're simply going to play into the Corvette's hooves. It can move super slow and will start in range 5, meaning that it's just pounding away at your formation, which can't fire back. You risk losing everything with your castle strategy for no gain. The corvette moves super slow, all the while building up lots of energy.

I think you're better off with this:

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)

Total: 150

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Here you use your Albino Space Cows independently. Don't put them in a formation, spread them across the board. They are some of the fastest ships in the game now. You can easily swarm and overwhelm the Corvette from all sides. The FCS/Gunner combo means after the first shot you can do some respectable damage to it, while it also means you can effectively engage snub fighters.

I'll point out that replacing all FCS+Gunner, and the RGP for Jonus winds you up with one of the fleets in my suggestion that the OP dismissed as being too expensive... for some reason.

I'm still worried about mobility here. If you camp a corner, you're simply going to play into the Corvette's hooves. It can move super slow and will start in range 5, meaning that it's just pounding away at your formation, which can't fire back. You risk losing everything with your castle strategy for no gain. The corvette moves super slow, all the while building up lots of energy. I think you're better off with this: Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Royal Guard Pilot (22)Total: 150View in Yet Another Squad Builder Here you use your Albino Space Cows independently. Don't put them in a formation, spread them across the board. They are some of the fastest ships in the game now. You can easily swarm and overwhelm the Corvette from all sides. The FCS/Gunner combo means after the first shot you can do some respectable damage to it, while it also means you can effectively engage snub fighters.

If he is going up against a vette then why waste 5 points per ship, when he is shooting at something that gets no evade dice. The vette is the biggest threat, and imo won't need gunner.

I WA focus fired with 4 shuttles and a Firespray all with hlc and it sucked

I'm still worried about mobility here. If you camp a corner, you're simply going to play into the Corvette's hooves. It can move super slow and will start in range 5, meaning that it's just pounding away at your formation, which can't fire back. You risk losing everything with your castle strategy for no gain. The corvette moves super slow, all the while building up lots of energy. I think you're better off with this: Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Royal Guard Pilot (22)Total: 150View in Yet Another Squad Builder Here you use your Albino Space Cows independently. Don't put them in a formation, spread them across the board. They are some of the fastest ships in the game now. You can easily swarm and overwhelm the Corvette from all sides. The FCS/Gunner combo means after the first shot you can do some respectable damage to it, while it also means you can effectively engage snub fighters.

I think gunner is a waste of points. In this scenerio.

If he is going up against a vette then why waste 5 points per ship, when he is shooting at something that gets no evade dice. The vette is the biggest threat, and imo won't need gunner.

I WA focus fired with 4 shuttles and a Firespray all with hlc and it sucked

If a Corvette/Transport comes under focus-fire, they might use the Reinforce ability.

Particularly if it's Bright Hope, a Gunner might be the best upgrade for the job.

I would deffinatly go with the first list, but have you put any thought into giving Howl Runner 'Veteran Instincts'?

I would deffinatly go with the first list, but have you put any thought into giving Howl Runner 'Veteran Instincts'?

...Why?

Are you running into fleets with pilots of level 8 and higher who are fragile enough for Howlrunner to kill on her own?

If so, where do you play, so I might also snipe the low-hanging fruit?

Seriously though, Determination, Adrenaline Rush, and even giving up the upgrade entirely for a stronger Initiative bid are all better options for the same cost.

Just fly a single tie fighter 5 ships are over rated ;-)

I like list 2 better 5 ships with 46HP vs 8 ships with 26, I think at that scale you will want the 20 more HP

Yes but thats 46 HP with 6 Green dice w/ PS 6, 6, 6 ,2 ,2

Compared to 26 HP with 24 Green dice w/ PS 8+ x8

tough call indeed

Well in addition you are talking about 18 Attack Dice with 8 rerolls (At r2-3 of the defender, 19 dice with no rerolls at R1) giving the defender 5 chances to defend with no bonus dice versus 16 Attack Dice with 8 Rerolls (at ranges 2-3 and 24 dice at R1 to the defender) giving the defender 8 chances to defend and at R3 a bonus defense die

Given these numbers I feel the damage will be in favor of the Lamdas as its firepower will diminish at a slower rate (but in bigger chunks when it does)

I'm still worried about mobility here. If you camp a corner, you're simply going to play into the Corvette's hooves. It can move super slow and will start in range 5, meaning that it's just pounding away at your formation, which can't fire back. You risk losing everything with your castle strategy for no gain. The corvette moves super slow, all the while building up lots of energy.

I think you're better off with this:

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)

Total: 150

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Here you use your Albino Space Cows independently. Don't put them in a formation, spread them across the board. They are some of the fastest ships in the game now. You can easily swarm and overwhelm the Corvette from all sides. The FCS/Gunner combo means after the first shot you can do some respectable damage to it, while it also means you can effectively engage snub fighters.

Thanks for the advice sable

Dracon two things, one I misread your first post so I didn't see where you were getting the points for the Engine upgrade so thats my fault, second I didn't mean to come across as dismissive sorry to any and all who saw it as such I took everyones replies into consideration even if I later decided against it. I was gonna send a pm but didnt wanna come across as trying to save face in public.

I like list 2 better 5 ships with 46HP vs 8 ships with 26, I think at that scale you will want the 20 more HP

Yes but thats 46 HP with 6 Green dice w/ PS 6, 6, 6 ,2 ,2

Compared to 26 HP with 24 Green dice w/ PS 8+ x8

tough call indeed

Well in addition you are talking about 18 Attack Dice with 8 rerolls (At r2-3 of the defender, 19 dice with no rerolls at R1) giving the defender 5 chances to defend with no bonus dice versus 16 Attack Dice with 8 Rerolls (at ranges 2-3 and 24 dice at R1 to the defender) giving the defender 8 chances to defend and at R3 a bonus defense die

Given these numbers I feel the damage will be in favor of the Lamdas as its firepower will diminish at a slower rate (but in bigger chunks when it does)

In the end I ran the 4 Lambda list, Dracon & Sable really made me think about the mobile shuttles and all day I was thinking it over wasn't until a hr before that I decided with the Yorr list on the ground thats I've never dont a EU always moving list but the advice was appreciated.

It worked out in my fav my teammate ran both named Defenders and 3 Scimitars w/ clusters & proxies.

We faced a CR-90, Chewie, Lando (both loaded up), Gold Sq q/ Ion Turret and Etahn in the Ewing.

The 3 Scimitars pulled the CR-90 away from the fight while the defenders and my list kill lando in 1st firing round, chewie in the 2nd, the ewing in the 3rd. The bombers were lost but the defenders cripples the rear tantive and we were about to focus on the front when time was called.

thanks everyone for the input.

Happy Hunting

I'm still worried about mobility here. If you camp a corner, you're simply going to play into the Corvette's hooves. It can move super slow and will start in range 5, meaning that it's just pounding away at your formation, which can't fire back. You risk losing everything with your castle strategy for no gain. The corvette moves super slow, all the while building up lots of energy. I think you're better off with this: Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Omicron Group Pilot (21)Fire-Control System (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)Royal Guard Pilot (22)Total: 150View in Yet Another Squad Builder Here you use your Albino Space Cows independently. Don't put them in a formation, spread them across the board. They are some of the fastest ships in the game now. You can easily swarm and overwhelm the Corvette from all sides. The FCS/Gunner combo means after the first shot you can do some respectable damage to it, while it also means you can effectively engage snub fighters.

I think gunner is a waste of points. In this scenerio.

If he is going up against a vette then why waste 5 points per ship, when he is shooting at something that gets no evade dice. The vette is the biggest threat, and imo won't need gunner.

I WA focus fired with 4 shuttles and a Firespray all with hlc and it sucked

If a Corvette/Transport comes under focus-fire, they might use the Reinforce ability.

Particularly if it's Bright Hope, a Gunner might be the best upgrade for the job.

Hlc is a big threat. Maybe he will reinforce more instead of doing other actions?

If not you may get that extra hit in.

Hlc, with target locks. Also potential crit possibilities