The Falcon has a better chance of getting line and pulling off a shot on the Phantom than any other ship in the game, and for a ship that cannot take a hit, that's a big deal and a weakness of the ship. Moreover, a Phantom cannot stay at range 3 indefinitley or for long. The way you're portraying the Phantom it cannot be beaten or hit ever. All it takes is a good shot or two to leave your Phantom Out of the game, and the Falcon is the best way, by far, to manage that.

Say what you will about clever phantom pilots, Clever Falcon pilots are their weakness.

Not even close to saying it can never be hit, and hardly unbeatable. I'm just saying that your dislike of the Falcon combined with your avoidance of anything that uses green dice is leading you to overstate the Phantom's vulnerability to the Falcon.

The Phantom has multiple options for defense. One of those is mitigated by turrets. One is mitigated by very high PS pilots. For the very small cases where an opponent overlaps both, yes, a lot of the Phantom's defenses vanish. But in any situation where it only has to deal with one threat, the Phantom can rely on the other.

You're trying to combine that overlap and declare the Phantom weak against turrets as a whole, when it's really only a serious problem against high-PS turrets.

The Falcon has a better chance of getting line and pulling off a shot on the Phantom than any other ship in the game, and for a ship that cannot take a hit, that's a big deal and a weakness of the ship. Moreover, a Phantom cannot stay at range 3 indefinitley or for long. The way you're portraying the Phantom it cannot be beaten or hit ever. All it takes is a good shot or two to leave your Phantom Out of the game, and the Falcon is the best way, by far, to manage that.

Say what you will about clever phantom pilots, Clever Falcon pilots are their weakness.

Not even close to saying it can never be hit, and hardly unbeatable. I'm just saying that your dislike of the Falcon combined with your avoidance of anything that uses green dice is leading you to overstate the Phantom's vulnerability to the Falcon.

The Phantom has multiple options for defense. One of those is mitigated by turrets. One is mitigated by very high PS pilots. For the very small cases where an opponent overlaps both, yes, a lot of the Phantom's defenses vanish. But in any situation where it only has to deal with one threat, the Phantom can rely on the other.

You're trying to combine that overlap and declare the Phantom weak against turrets as a whole, when it's really only a serious problem against high-PS turrets.

Arguments that involve the skill of the pilot have to go both ways. Nothing deals with a range 3 Phantom well except Cannons.

Nothing deals with a Range 1 Phantom except Turrets.

Clever pilots will jockey to take advantage of the weakness their opponent has. That's a given, but unless the Phantom pilot severely outplays their opponent, we have to assume the middleground.

A Falcon will likely be 3 dice with focus or target lock and a gunner roll against A Phantom with a focus on defense and 2-4 defense dice. In which case they have a good chance of hitting, and they have an easier time lining up that shot than any other ship in the game. Even at 4 defense dice the Phantom cannot take 3 dice attacks for long before falling.

So based on the last page or 2 (might be thread crossing a little) of responses it seems like the true meta issues are 1 Imperial pilot and 1 Rebel pilot: Howlrunner and Han.

Not at all. There are no real Meta issues. There are a few balance ones, specifically the overcost of pilot skill in earlier Metagames. That's being addressed.

Otherwise we have a very balanced meta, and will probably continue to do so.

Perhaps not a "meta issue" then but a "meta handcuff".

The Falcon has a better chance of getting line and pulling off a shot on the Phantom than any other ship in the game, and for a ship that cannot take a hit, that's a big deal and a weakness of the ship. Moreover, a Phantom cannot stay at range 3 indefinitley or for long. The way you're portraying the Phantom it cannot be beaten or hit ever. All it takes is a good shot or two to leave your Phantom Out of the game, and the Falcon is the best way, by far, to manage that.

Say what you will about clever phantom pilots, Clever Falcon pilots are their weakness.

Not even close to saying it can never be hit, and hardly unbeatable. I'm just saying that your dislike of the Falcon combined with your avoidance of anything that uses green dice is leading you to overstate the Phantom's vulnerability to the Falcon.

The Phantom has multiple options for defense. One of those is mitigated by turrets. One is mitigated by very high PS pilots. For the very small cases where an opponent overlaps both, yes, a lot of the Phantom's defenses vanish. But in any situation where it only has to deal with one threat, the Phantom can rely on the other.

You're trying to combine that overlap and declare the Phantom weak against turrets as a whole, when it's really only a serious problem against high-PS turrets.

Name a ship that deals with Phantoms better than the falcon? There's some argument to be made about Heavy laser Cannons, but in that case "A Clever Phantom" will close to range one and stay behind the Cannon, or to the side against Firesprays.

Arguments that involve the skill of the pilot have to go both ways. Nothing deals with a range 3 Phantom well except Cannons.

Nothing deals with a Range 1 Phantom except Turrets.

Clever pilots will jockey to take advantage of the weakness their opponent has. That's a given, but unless the Phantom pilot severely outplays their opponent, we have to assume the middleground.

A Falcon will likely be 3 dice with focus or target lock and a gunner roll against A Phantom with a focus on defense and 2-4 defense dice. In which case they have a good chance of hitting, and they have an easier time lining up that shot than any other ship in the game. Even at 4 defense dice the Phantom cannot take 3 dice attacks for long before falling.

Ya, he may take a hit, but unless the Falcon can kill him by round 2/3 the Phantom is attacking at a ship with 1 agility with 4 dice every turn.

I'd like to see two Sigma squadern pilots, both with SPA,and Recon spec, and a bounty hunter with heavy lasers.

Or the 2 Sigma pilots with 3 tie fighters.

I think if they focus fired the first round, that they combined could probably kill a falcon before it will do its dmg.

Either way be a good game.

With the Falcon that's a lot of points, therefore the empire can still have the rebels out gunned.

Comes down to who is flying both sides, and who has the hot dice. I mean if whoever is the flying the Falcon won't do him any good if he keeps landing on asteroids.

Turrets are a good way to deal with Phantoms, but they are not necessarily always going to work.

My point is a Falcon is not going to be as deadly as some may think.

You seem to forget that the Phantom can also evade, and if it has a Spa upgrade, he can get a free evade action. Equip that with a Recon Specialist,and the Phantoms survivability increases.

Ya, he may take a hit, but unless the Falcon can kill him by round 2/3 the Phantom is attacking at a ship with 1 agility with 4 dice every turn.

Nnnot exactly. If you take SPA over ACD, you can't re-cloak after your attack. You have to sacrifice your attack to cloak (as you take your actions before you attack) and as long as you can't cloak, SPA can't activate, which means no evade token. And since you can't attack while cloaked, you have to remain decloaked to fight that falcon as long as he's in your arc.

So either you cut the amount of attacks you can throw at the Falcon in half, or you don't get any evade tokens. SPA is a very situational card. Tactically amazing when used against targets with firing arcs or to troll Corvettes at range 4+, less so against turrets.

Also remember that Phantoms have surprisingly low PS for how much of the phantom's survivability phantom relies on going first (the Phantom is the only fighter in the game without a PS8 pilot). A sigma has PS3, which any Falcon except the outer rim smuggler is going to shoot first against.

Hate to be that guy who necroes his own thread, but yet again, there is quite a lot of hate flying around that the game is becoming trash because of new cards.

Stay on Target is good, and it is cheap. It comes in a set that is expensive with a ship that most players will not intend to play multiples of. By the way, committing to playing multiples of it probably limits you to three ships, or four at maximum. Same with Dash Rendar. He is a unique crew card with a pilot card, meaning his use is even more limited. Again, he is good, he is cheap, but he is far from game breaking.

The game is fine. We should be doing nothing but cheering for more options being added to the game. I, for one, am quite excited there are new options to the game that potentially add serious strategic options, as opposed to cards that fall by the wayside like much of Wave 1, or worse, are Dead on Arrival, like Autoblaster or Expose. The game has a set of rules in place, and I agree that rules exist for a reason. However, allowing a player to ignore or exploit a specific rule for a SINGLE ship in their squad is not a problem.

This has been a friendly PSA, reminding you, yet again, that the Sky is Not Falling.

Fly Casual.

And props to Doug and Paul for giving us some legitimately cool cards!

i was actually just thinking early today that this game is awesome! We all have to consider ourselves lucky that FFG decided to grace us with a legitamite, cool, awesome, upgradeable, customizable, table top flying war game! Seriously, this could have been a episode 1-3 game.. whew.

edit: and dash rendar, really??? they have a dash rendar card in the game and people complain. wow.

i was actually just thinking early today that this game is awesome! We all have to consider ourselves lucky that FFG decided to grace us with a legitamite, cool, awesome, upgradeable, customizable, table top flying war game! Seriously, this could have been a episode 1-3 game.. whew.

edit: and dash rendar, really??? they have a dash rendar card in the game and people complain. wow.

Some people like to complain...

Cause they are dumb.

Stay on Target is good, and it is cheap. It comes in a set that is expensive with a ship that most players will not intend to play multiples of. By the way, committing to playing multiples of it probably limits you to three ships, or four at maximum.

Well, yeah. That's pretty much the point of SOT, isn't it? To give high-PS high-point pilots more room to breathe and let people pick them over the current trend of "pick as many cheap nameless grunts as you can" lists.

(the Phantom is the only fighter in the game without a PS8 pilot).

The TIE Bomber disagrees.

(the Phantom is the only fighter in the game without a PS8 pilot).

The TIE Bomber disagrees.

Indeed so. I stand corrected.