The rules for selling goods are quite clear. For example, on page 150 “Selling and Trading” it talks of selling items with reference to the 25%, 50% and 75% rule.

But, as far as I can tell, this rule does not apply when buying stuff.

In the section on Negation, page 114 there is mention of using each "*" to increase profit by 5%. So this is also referring to selling.

What are the rules, if any, for negotiating when buying stuff?

Or do I always have to buy for the list price?

If so, I would appreciate some suggestion of how to house rule negotiating a buying price.

Thx

There really aren't specifics. You can sort of reverse engineer some of the information like the rarity chart is pretty good for applying to the base cost. You could just use uncancelled Advantages and Threats on the Negotiation roll to find an item to bump prices a set % you're comfortable with.

I probably wouldn't allow negotiating buying process, to be honest. How many gun stores and supermarkets do you know that you can walk into and haggle over the price of your purchase? For most sellers, particularly corporate sellers, what is their incentive to haggle? They have very little incentive there, so it becomes take-it-or-leave-it. On the flip side, if you want to pawn an old gun or sell your used car, you have a little leverage to negotiate (hence the rules on it).

I probably wouldn't allow negotiating buying process, to be honest. How many gun stores and supermarkets do you know that you can walk into and haggle over the price of your purchase? For most sellers, particularly corporate sellers, what is their incentive to haggle? They have very little incentive there, so it becomes take-it-or-leave-it. On the flip side, if you want to pawn an old gun or sell your used car, you have a little leverage to negotiate (hence the rules on it).

I agree over bartering. My suggestion is to use Advantages/Threats on the Negotiation check that's done to locate items more as a representation of 'shopping around' and that was the best price you could find.

I wouldn't suggest haggling over the price of individual purchases, but if you're buying in bulk for the purposes of trade - or just to have cases full of stimpacks in the cargo hold for the rare everyday times when that will benefit you - then haggling over the price might be more reasonable.

I probably wouldn't allow negotiating buying process, to be honest. How many gun stores and supermarkets do you know that you can walk into and haggle over the price of your purchase?

I agree that haggling should be rare, but a system for such should still be prepared for certain situations. If you didn't haggle over your last car purchase, you probably paid too much. While it shouldn't be used often, players should be able to walk into a starship broker and attempt to haggle a price Qui Gon Jinn-style (well without the attempted use of the Force). I think players will accept the answer, "this shop has set prices, no negotiations", as the common response. But, for large purchases it would be appropriate to allow haggling from time to time. It's also a moment for certain non-combat and more personal interaction characters (with Negotiation) to shine.

The RAW appears to allow two systems. First there is the quick and dirty system for common off-loading found goods. Page 150. Roll a Negotiation check. If you fail, you don't sell it. If you succeed, 1/4 value minimum with bonuses for more successes. Purchasing? Full value. Quick and easy system for when you don't feel play should be bogged down for 30 minutes as players make repeated rolls to eek a few more gold pieces credits out of every looted short sword blaster.

Then there is a more detailed process described on pages 113-114 for Negotiation. I would save this for high end negotiations. This could be used to purchase a starship or negotiate the profits of a new smuggler's network with some rebel contacts. It describes a more detailed opposed Negotiation check after starting with a base value.

Am I way off here?

Thx, for the quick response. I like the idea of using the streetwise check to simulate the affect of "shopping around" for the best price.

I suppose it depends where you are buying then. In a regular store there is little chance to haggle, as you say.

But if I am buying in a bazaar, buying stolen goods or any situation where I am buying used goods, things may be quite different I guess.

Any suggestions as to how to rule negotiating in such situations?

On a related note:

I have heard that on the black market, base price is double the list price. Does anyone know where this rule is? I have not been abled to find it.

The rules for selling goods are quite clear. For example, on page 150 “Selling and Trading” it talks of selling items with reference to the 25%, 50% and 75% rule.

My understanding is that the most important rule is "Ask the GM".

So, the next question is, what happens if you're the GM and the players ask you? Well, I would be inclined to go by what works for you narratively in your game. If it makes sense to haggle over prices, then do so with Negotiation and Charm and Streetwise and whatever other skills you think fit into the situation. If it doesn't make sense to haggle, then take the base prices as shown in the books and decide what kind of inflation or discount the players can expect.

I would be fine with using Streetwise to find Mite's Shadow Goods in the depths of Coruscant, using Charm to get past the door bouncer, then Negotiations (or Streetwise) to haggle the price to pawn a recently deceased ISB agent's datachip. It's an important part of the story. For pawning a standard Heavy Blaster Pistol the ISB agent had carried, just use the simple Negotiation check supplied in the Gear chapter to, in one roll, find a buyer and determine a price. It's not important to the story.

I think it entirely depends on what the situation is.

Are you buying from a big corporate store? No haggeling.

Are you buying from a street vender or small shop? Haggle away.

My personal way of determining prices if I were running a game would be, when my players get somewhere with stuff for sale, would be to roll 3 green and 3 purple dice. Every uncanceled Success increases prices by 5%, every uncanceled Failure decreases prices by 5% off the listed book prices. This would be a secret dice roll(at least till they bought stuff)

Then I'd allow my players to haggle prices down, with a reduction of 5% per success. But failure or dispair might result in a price increase or the vender refusing to accept their business(or the item being damaged/defective)

Then I'd allow my players to haggle prices down, with a reduction of 5% per success. But failure or dispair might result in a price increase or the vender refusing to accept their business(or the item being damaged/defective)

Our GM has reduced prices based on haggling. Our GM has also increased prices due to role-playing that is in clear opposition to the motivations of the shopkeeper. Get good dice rolls, and do your role-playing well, and you can reasonably expect to get some pretty decent prices -- in at least some cases.

But if you're haggling in bad faith and doing a bad job of covering that, you can expect the shopkeep to charge you a higher price than they'd charge anyone else, just because they don't like you. Of course, that assumes that they don't just kick your ... butt ... out of the door, or call the Imperial Stormtroopers on your ... butt.

Thx, for the quick response. I like the idea of using the streetwise check to simulate the affect of "shopping around" for the best price.

I suppose it depends where you are buying then. In a regular store there is little chance to haggle, as you say.

But if I am buying in a bazaar, buying stolen goods or any situation where I am buying used goods, things may be quite different I guess.

Any suggestions as to how to rule negotiating in such situations?

On a related note:

I have heard that on the black market, base price is double the list price. Does anyone know where this rule is? I have not been abled to find it.

If something is illegal, restricted, shady, it's Streetwise. If it's legal, it's Negotiate.

Remember that a business that routinely allows for haggling generally starts with prices set higher than the baseline. This allows them to 'lose' a bit without actually hurting profits.

If something is illegal, restricted, shady, it's Streetwise. If it's legal, it's Negotiate.

Nevermind, 2P51 was right, I was wrong.

If something is illegal, restricted, shady, it's Streetwise. If it's legal, it's Negotiate.

While this is completely possible if your GM says so, I wouldn't necessarily go this way. When you are negotiating with a black market, shady type, you are still Negotiating. You may need to use your Streetwise to find him, but you still need to haggle when you get there. Streetwise in RAW page 118 suggests it can be used to find a "merchant who specializes in unsavory goods", but as for bargaining, it only suggests extra successes can help with the later negotiated price, how long it took to find him, etc. You still need to Negotiate in my opinion.

I disagree. CRB p. 150 section for "The Black Market" talks specifically about Streetwise and only Streetwise and ends by saying "The rules above present the general rules for buying and selling most illegal items." Seems to me it would be more likely a player would need to ask a GMs permission to use Negotiate rather than Streetwise when buying illegal goods imo.

Nevermind, 2P51 was right, I was wrong.

Edited by Sturn, Today, 08:27 PM.

I beat you to it at 8:27 PM!

Dammit you shouldn't be able to quote crap I've already deleted 4 minutes earlier!

I'm a faster left clicker.................

Remember that a business that routinely allows for haggling generally starts with prices set higher than the baseline. This allows them to 'lose' a bit without actually hurting profits.

Not just haggling. Any store that routinely has sales does the same thing. You'd be surprised at how open even some big box corporate stores are to haggling on things like appliances and stuff.

The easiest way to negotiate prices for buying is to increase the prices of specific dealers.

When either role-playing or making a negotiation check,the prices can be haggled down to the listed price in the rulebook.

This way it appears to have been successful,without going below listed price.

Just my opinion.

The easiest way to negotiate prices for buying is to increase the prices of specific dealers.

When either role-playing or making a negotiation check,the prices can be haggled down to the listed price in the rulebook.

This way it appears to have been successful,without going below listed price.

Just my opinion.

Outstanding rolls should let you get a really good deal from time to time. Just be careful that you don't get Threat or Despair along with that success.

The Streetwise roll to procure illegal goods, as I read it, is an all-encompassing meta-roll that combines the legwork in tracking someone down who has what you want, and working out an acceptable price.

And I've known more than one GM already who have misinterpreted Table 5-3 on page 150 to punish purchasers of illegal goods by jacking up the prices. That's not what that chart is for at all.