The imperials don't have anything like droids (or a similar flexible card) that is essentially a free upgrade slot on a handful of ships with a wide variety of options.

I wonder sometimes if giving Saber/Black/Royal Guard pilots EPSs wasn't an attempt to balance that out, since the green squadron pilot (only rebel generic above ps 2 from wave 1+2 without a crew or droid slot) is the only generic with a EPS but as EPSs started growing in power they decided to just start restricting their availability to the named pilots

2) contact ffg and ask them directly

How dare we ask the only entity that matters for this their opinion?

Except that everyone who disagrees with you is saying that if it were redundant It Would Not Be There. It's been used in such a way as to make it very clearly that Luke Skywalker is Friendly to and within range on of Luke Skywalker at all times.

Yes, everyone who disagrees with me. All two of them.

Make it three, then: the word "friendly" appears here with no modifier. "Friendly", in this context, simply means "a ship on your list" (see Core Rulebook page 4). Additionally, "at Range 1-3" means "the closest part of the target's base touches Range 1-3" (see FAQ, page 4).

It's possible that FFG will clarify in the future that "friendly" means other ships in the same list. But as the term is currently defined in the game, the ship Jan is on fulfills both conditions: it is in the same squad as itself, and its base touches a portion of the first range increment. Accordingly, Jan (crew) can target her own ship.

Make it four, I think that using the "rules as written" mentality, it has to be read this way.

I'm really getting tired of the non-variety of Imperial builds too. Yes you can do Shuttles, Firesprays without mini swarms.

But honestly, the most consistent lists seem to be: Swarm. Something + mini swarm. Maybe interceptors. That's it.

The reason is that the Academy TIE is the best bargain in the game. The problem isn't with the rest of the options; the problem is that Academy Pilots give you the best value for your points.I am not the first to day this, but Wave 4 does far more for Imperial variety than for Rebel.

So, very interesting point: the Z-95 is actually just slightly more points efficient than the TIE Fighter. They're basically the same firepower and durability, but the +1PS gives the Z-95 a slight edge in overall cost efficiency.

I think the main problem with Imperials and why they don't get more "stuff", is that Howlrunner exists and Academy TIEs exist. The synergy there is so strong and so cheap that it's perilous to include more synergy abilities for imperials.

I have to agree, Howlrunner+swarm is such an easy and powerful baseline in terms of measuring game mechanics - with few conditionals and high numbers of dice and hulls against which many new alternatives fall short, mostly because the increased priced per ship and added situational requirements.

While many crave new list variants, many also seem to return to swarmy stuff when statistical reliability for multiple games against unknown lists is required.

Hence FFG adding the Z-95 and TIE phantom to break this, and the TIE defender to compensate for it being broken.

I think the main problem with Imperials and why they don't get more "stuff", is that Howlrunner exists and Academy TIEs exist. The synergy there is so strong and so cheap that it's perilous to include more synergy abilities for imperials.

I have to agree, Howlrunner+swarm is such an easy and powerful baseline in terms of measuring game mechanics - with few conditionals and high numbers of dice and hulls against which many new alternatives fall short, mostly because the increased priced per ship and added situational requirements.

While many crave new list variants, many also seem to return to swarmy stuff when statistical reliability for multiple games against unknown lists is required.

They have about as many pilot options, and plenty of competitive and interesting builds. The difference is really that they have less varience between their ships.

They have

Tie Fighter

Tie Fighter +1(The Interceptor)

Big Tie Fighter (Tie Bomber)

Sucky Interceptor (Advanced)

The Firespray

Clunky Firespray(Shuttle)

Hyper Interceptor (Phantoms)

Hyper Sucky interceptor (The Defender)

Meanwhile the rebels have

X-Wing

Clunky Tank turret Ship (Y-Wing)

Giant aglile tank Turret Ship(Falcon)

Totally not a shielded tie(A-Wing)

Tanky Powerhouse-(B-Wing)

Support Turret Ship(Hawk)

Mini X-Wing Z-95

Super X-WIng E-Wing

So while all the imperial ships feel and look related, the Rebels have a variety of ships that each play very differently. Combine the fact most of the imperial ships feel similar with the fact they are down a shipand all of their fighters play the same game, and you have a playstyle that doesn't change as much while still having a great deal of build diversity.

Hyper Sucky interceptor (The Defender)

Why still the Defender hate, sad it makes me

Hyper Sucky interceptor (The Defender)

Why still the Defender hate, sad it makes me

Although my game with the Defender made me like the Phantom and 36 points of ties more. I still feel like the Defender needs something to help it. Maybe a new Cannon upgrade.

I think the main problem with Imperials and why they don't get more "stuff", is that Howlrunner exists and Academy TIEs exist. The synergy there is so strong and so cheap that it's perilous to include more synergy abilities for imperials.

I have to agree, Howlrunner+swarm is such an easy and powerful baseline in terms of measuring game mechanics - with few conditionals and high numbers of dice and hulls against which many new alternatives fall short, mostly because the increased priced per ship and added situational requirements.

While many crave new list variants, many also seem to return to swarmy stuff when statistical reliability for multiple games against unknown lists is required.

While the rebels have more options as far as upgrades go, that doesn't make them worse.

They have about as many pilot options, and plenty of competitive and interesting builds. The difference is really that they have less varience between their ships.

They have

Tie Fighter

Tie Fighter +1(The Interceptor)

Big Tie Fighter (Tie Bomber)

Sucky Interceptor (Advanced)

The Firespray

Clunky Firespray(Shuttle)

Hyper Interceptor (Phantoms)

Hyper Sucky interceptor (The Defender)

Meanwhile the rebels have

X-Wing

Clunky Tank turret Ship (Y-Wing)

Giant aglile tank Turret Ship(Falcon)

Totally not a shielded tie(A-Wing)

Tanky Powerhouse-(B-Wing)

Support Turret Ship(Hawk)

Mini X-Wing Z-95

Super X-WIng E-Wing

So while all the imperial ships feel and look related, the Rebels have a variety of ships that each play very differently. Combine the fact most of the imperial ships feel similar with the fact they are down a shipand all of their fighters play the same game, and you have a playstyle that doesn't change as much while still having a great deal of build diversity.

The Interceptor should be played WAAAAY differently than a TIE Fighter, as its strength is its mobility. It can arc dodge like crazy. The TIE Bomber isn't a 'big TIE Fighter, its an ordnance machine. The Lambda can fill many different roles, such as the doom shuttle and the buzzsaw. You're also assuming that the Defender sucks before it even comes out (a Defender carried me to victory in AoIA finals), and you are forgetting the Phantom's cloak ability all together. You seem to be grouping the Empire into 'TIEs' and 'big ships' when in reality, they are much more diverse than that.

Personally I would call the Addvanced a shielded Tie not a sucky interceptor

Hyper Sucky interceptor (The Defender)

Why still the Defender hate, sad it makes me

That was actually a crack at the fact it's a suped up Advance.

Although my game with the Defender made me like the Phantom and 36 points of ties more. I still feel like the Defender needs something to help it. Maybe a new Cannon upgrade.

Tractor Beam: Imperial Only Cannon beckons.

Back on topic (again) Jan Ors could be really good on a Ship supporting Jake Farrell.

Kyle + Keyan could be pretty sick.

I think the main problem with Imperials and why they don't get more "stuff", is that Howlrunner exists and Academy TIEs exist. The synergy there is so strong and so cheap that it's perilous to include more synergy abilities for imperials.

I have to agree, Howlrunner+swarm is such an easy and powerful baseline in terms of measuring game mechanics - with few conditionals and high numbers of dice and hulls against which many new alternatives fall short, mostly because the increased priced per ship and added situational requirements.

While many crave new list variants, many also seem to return to swarmy stuff when statistical reliability for multiple games against unknown lists is required.

While the rebels have more options as far as upgrades go, that doesn't make them worse.

They have about as many pilot options, and plenty of competitive and interesting builds. The difference is really that they have less varience between their ships.

They have

Tie Fighter

Tie Fighter +1(The Interceptor)

Big Tie Fighter (Tie Bomber)

Sucky Interceptor (Advanced)

The Firespray

Clunky Firespray(Shuttle)

Hyper Interceptor (Phantoms)

Hyper Sucky interceptor (The Defender)

Meanwhile the rebels have

X-Wing

Clunky Tank turret Ship (Y-Wing)

Giant aglile tank Turret Ship(Falcon)

Totally not a shielded tie(A-Wing)

Tanky Powerhouse-(B-Wing)

Support Turret Ship(Hawk)

Mini X-Wing Z-95

Super X-WIng E-Wing

So while all the imperial ships feel and look related, the Rebels have a variety of ships that each play very differently. Combine the fact most of the imperial ships feel similar with the fact they are down a shipand all of their fighters play the same game, and you have a playstyle that doesn't change as much while still having a great deal of build diversity.

The Interceptor should be played WAAAAY differently than a TIE Fighter, as its strength is its mobility. It can arc dodge like crazy. The TIE Bomber isn't a 'big TIE Fighter, its an ordnance machine. The Lambda can fill many different roles, such as the doom shuttle and the buzzsaw. You're also assuming that the Defender sucks before it even comes out (a Defender carried me to victory in AoIA finals), and you are forgetting the Phantom's cloak ability all together. You seem to be grouping the Empire into 'TIEs' and 'big ships' when in reality, they are much more diverse than that.

They aren't, but it creates a set of perceptions that are hard to get by.

I play Empire far more often than Rebels. I like feeling like I have a decent number on the table, and Ties are such amazing blockers.

So while all the imperial ships feel and look related, the Rebels have a variety of ships that each play very differently. Combine the fact most of the imperial ships feel similar with the fact they are down a shipand all of their fighters play the same game, and you have a playstyle that doesn't change as much while still having a great deal of build diversity.

A matter of perception really. I personally feel like the Empire have more variety in playstyle with their ship than the rebels, especially with wave 4 coming.

...

Tie Fighter is the cheap maneuvrable fighter. Doesn't pack a punch by itself but is terrifying by the number you can bring.

Tie Advanced is the Tie Advanced, no need to create yet another how to fix the Tie Advanced thread.

Tie Interceptor is the most maneuvrable craft, being the only one that naturally come with boost and engine upgrade and second only to the A-Wing for the most green to clear stress. It also shoot hard with 3 attack dice.

Tie Bomber is the best ordnance ship of the game by being able to carry any type of ordnance. It can also serve as a cheap tank with a good maneuvrability, enough to hold its ground in a dogfight.

Firespray is unique with his front and back arc of fire. Also has a very decent maneuver dial.

Shuttle is the slow tank hard to maneuver but can be deadly in good hands. Also is one of the most customizable ship in the game and can be tweak to fit your playstyle.

Tie Defender will be flown differently from anything else with the white K-turn, only straight green and hard red. It will also be hard to kill with agi 3 and 6 hit point.

The Tie Phantom is like nothing else we've seen yet. With the cloak and decloak mecanic, until another ship come with it, it will be a beast of its own and only the Empire can play with it. That's their big toy that they can rub in the face of the rebels.

...

And all those ship each have their own playstyle. You can't use a Shuttle like you would a firespray; you should not use an Interceptor as if it was a Tie Fighter; You don't fly a Defender as a tanky Interceptor. They each have their own style and use.

The Empire have a better variety of ship, but rebels have more toys to customize them.

So while all the imperial ships feel and look related, the Rebels have a variety of ships that each play very differently. Combine the fact most of the imperial ships feel similar with the fact they are down a shipand all of their fighters play the same game, and you have a playstyle that doesn't change as much while still having a great deal of build diversity.

A matter of perception really. I personally feel like the Empire have more variety in playstyle with their ship than the rebels, especially with wave 4 coming.

...

Tie Fighter is the cheap maneuvrable fighter. Doesn't pack a punch by itself but is terrifying by the number you can bring.

Tie Advanced is the Tie Advanced, no need to create yet another how to fix the Tie Advanced thread.

Tie Interceptor is the most maneuvrable craft, being the only one that naturally come with boost and engine upgrade and second only to the A-Wing for the most green to clear stress. It also shoot hard with 3 attack dice.

Tie Bomber is the best ordnance ship of the game by being able to carry any type of ordnance. It can also serve as a cheap tank with a good maneuvrability, enough to hold its ground in a dogfight.

Firespray is unique with his front and back arc of fire. Also has a very decent maneuver dial.

Shuttle is the slow tank hard to maneuver but can be deadly in good hands. Also is one of the most customizable ship in the game and can be tweak to fit your playstyle.

Tie Defender will be flown differently from anything else with the white K-turn, only straight green and hard red. It will also be hard to kill with agi 3 and 6 hit point.

The Tie Phantom is like nothing else we've seen yet. With the cloak and decloak mecanic, until another ship come with it, it will be a beast of its own and only the Empire can play with it. That's their big toy that they can rub in the face of the rebels.

...

And all those ship each have their own playstyle. You can't use a Shuttle like you would a firespray; you should not use an Interceptor as if it was a Tie Fighter; You don't fly a Defender as a tanky Interceptor. They each have their own style and use.

The Empire have a better variety of ship, but rebels have more toys to customize them.

I agree with all this. And why I lean towards the 'this game is balanced, despite new releases for each side' camp. Bravo Ffg for making a phenomenal game.

The only things I would really like to see are more Imperial Only crew options.

The only things I would really like to see are more Imperial Only crew options.

Agreed. I bet we'll see more come the huge ships. I get why so far we haven't gotten many, as the Slave doesn' really have any unique crew associations, we got two with the shuttle, the Phantom doesn't even have any named pilots, and that covers all the Imperial based crew ships.

Good thing we don't have a rules subforum or anything... oh wait...

The only things I would really like to see are more Imperial Only crew options.

Agreed. I bet we'll see more come the huge ships. I get why so far we haven't gotten many, as the Slave doesn' really have any unique crew associations, we got two with the shuttle, the Phantom doesn't even have any named pilots, and that covers all the Imperial based crew ships.

I've been spamming the "Prisoner" subtype on a lot of threads lately. Would boost firesprays in interesting ways, make fluff more fun, and provide the imperials some access to some off limits stuff. I know we'll see the EMPEROR eventually, and maybe a Moff or 2 but after that FFG will need to get creative.

And if you aren't seeing the variety, than you are looking at it wrong, imo. Just because the Imperials lack upgrade options, doesn't mean that they lack variety of choice.

IMO you are looking at it wrong. Or not flying enough Empire at high levels.

The imperial lack upgrade options, upgrades that CHANGE slots, upgrades that reduce points, Imperial only crew... they are down an entire ship, 2 huge ships (AND the awesome pilots that came with it), half an aces pack... and the best, the absolutely most skilled imperial piloting is NEGATED by "easy mode" turrets. Bombs are totally equivalent.

I didn't even mention the quality of named pilots the {scum} have been getting vs the Empires best nor the ADVANCED. Do you honestly wonder why there is a lack of options? There just is. Oh. Did I forget droids?

Change your profile pic man... clearly you're a terrorist lover! (Insert more sarcasm here than simple words can describe!).

I'm really getting tired of the non-variety of Imperial builds too. Yes you can do Shuttles, Firesprays without mini swarms.

But honestly, the most consistent lists seem to be: Swarm. Something + mini swarm. Maybe interceptors. That's it.

The reason is that the Academy TIE is the best bargain in the game. The problem isn't with the rest of the options; the problem is that Academy Pilots give you the best value for your points.I am not the first to day this, but Wave 4 does far more for Imperial variety than for Rebel.

That 5th rebel ship sure is easy to fit suddenly...and the 6th... I wouldn't be too sure about that. The Ewing might be just as tough a nut to crack as the phantom...albeit more expensive but combined with action sharing/economy/token shenanigans, I'm guessing it will surprise as much as the defender.

The tie is great. But what else is there that is truely a build around. Firespray. Yep and because of cost what is the only other thing that you can run RIGHT NOW besides the Firespray... swarm or another Firespray.

The interceptor is mean mean mean in time-limit-less death match... also can be one shot by any other ship in the game (except the hwk... but even then with a lucky crit)...high risk/reward that is totally nullified by "easy mode" turrets... getting better, and more popular which is sure to lead to more turrets and more YT's that have DR 3.

Shuttles will someday be a thing... the right combo has yet to exist to make this thing terrifying. Get's absolutely hosed by interceptors, the new awings, and bwings... all three popular and up and coming ships.

Bombers... I actually really like bombers. I shove one in here and there but they just don't work out. They are suffering a bomb problem and an ordnance problem. The later is getting better very slowly, but the former is stagnant. Named pilots are also very very niche and specific and expensive compared to the aforementioned options.

Advanced...enough said.

I happily embrace the wave 4 ships as valid and different enough. That does nothing for me for the next month or the previous 5-6. And does little to erase the deficits mentioned above. Everything that has made the empire better (with the exception of Rebel Captive and Royal Guard title) has also made the rebels more customizable and further expanded options

2 ships, weighted against that, especially with the addition of 2 very capable and special rebel {scum} ships, don't make up for loss ground the way the terrorist propaganda would like you to believe (again with the wet, drenching, dripping, pooling sarcasm. About the terrorists and propaganda...not the ships.).

oh, and, as always...

FOR THE GLORY OF THE EMPIRE!

I don't understand the endless bitching about rebels on here. I mean, we've known these cards were coming out for quite a while, right? Were imperials just hoping the cards would be blank? These are literally months old complaints.

"Spoilers" is right...

The non-unique thing is referring to the fact that it's a mod you can equip on more than one B-Wing in a list. Unlike • R2-D6 or any of the other unique upgrades. It has nothing to do with what type of B-Wing you can put it on.

I really don't understand how this was so hard for people to figure out.

Jan should work well on a ship with multiple comms boosters.

Kyle does the same as recon specialist: He gives you a focus token for the same points cost. The trigger condition is entirely different.

There are only three non-huge rebel ships with crew slots. YT with PTL/EH and Kyle is attractive. Jan will like him as a copilot. Keyan? Not sure. How useful is the extra token with 1 agility?

I guess the points cost of the B-Wing title is zero.

It's 1.

Well, no, the points for the B-Wing title are non-existent, because B/E is a mod.

The tie is great. But what else is there that is truely a build around. Firespray. Yep and because of cost what is the only other thing that you can run RIGHT NOW besides the Firespray... swarm or another Firespray.

You know why that is? Because Howlrunner swarms are overpowered. There's no chance she would have been printed with that ability at that cost in a current expansion. So FFG has two choices: they can continue to release balanced ships and accept that competitive players will keep using their overpowered option and dismiss the new stuff, or they can try to compete with the overpowered option and bring in serious power creep with each new expansion making the previous ones obsolete. Thankfully FFG have chosen the first option.

(Technically there is a third option, errata Howlrunner's ability and/or point cost, but I can understand why this is not an appealing one.)

Everything that has made the empire better (with the exception of Rebel Captive and Royal Guard title) has also made the rebels more customizable and further expanded options

Well yeah, that's what happens when you only consider upgrade cards that say "imperial only". By that standard the only thing rebels have had since wave 3 is a droid or two and some mediocre crew options.

Well yeah, that's what happens when you only consider upgrade cards that say "imperial only". By that standard the only thing rebels have had since wave 3 is a droid or two and some mediocre crew options.

Opportunist: better for rebels so far.

Outmaneuver: awesome on awings, great for turrets. Only ok for imperials because of competing EPTs.

Hull upgrade: more HP. xwing light for bandits. Interceptors like it best but often take it only as the 3rd or 4th upgrade.

Tactician: More stress to combat the empires best

Predator: Just as good for rebels

That's just out of the Imperial based products. Add in 6 rebel only crew and a number of rebel only droids that you are VASTLY under rating and the "standard" is set.

What has been released upgrade wise that has been significantly better for the Empire?

What? How is Outmaneuver better for Rebels? TIEs are the best ships for avoiding arcs. And getting out of arcs is easy against turrets, who are not trying their best to keep you in their arc. And you messed up your point, because Outmaneuver doesn't work on turrets, unless you are firing inside it's arc.

And really, the stress inducers have been overstated. Just because you have to be a little more judicious when using PTL the limit doesn't make the various stress inducers the death of interceptors. And if that is really that big of an issue, use the best Wingman in the game, the Black Squadron TIE. A steal for only 16 pts.

I really don't know what game you are looking at, but it clearly isn't X-wing.

Don't mind Wakky Ristol. I'm still trying to bring him around to Outmaneuver on BSPs.

Speaking of which, that thread seems to have been glossed over today. Did I heap too much logic on you people?

Well yeah, that's what happens when you only consider upgrade cards that say "imperial only". By that standard the only thing rebels have had since wave 3 is a droid or two and some mediocre crew options.

Opportunist: better for rebels so far.

Outmaneuver: awesome on awings, great for turrets. Only ok for imperials because of competing EPTs.

Hull upgrade: more HP. xwing light for bandits. Interceptors like it best but often take it only as the 3rd or 4th upgrade.

Tactician: More stress to combat the empires best

Predator: Just as good for rebels

That's just out of the Imperial based products. Add in 6 rebel only crew and a number of rebel only droids that you are VASTLY under rating and the "standard" is set.

What has been released upgrade wise that has been significantly better for the Empire?

Opportunist: I agree works best for rebels mainly because of Wes token removal and on A-Wing because we tend to don't care about them anyway.

Outmaneuver: good on A-Wing, very bad on turret since the target needs to be in your firing arc. I believe it works best on imperial ships since they almost all have barrel roll and its more useful to outmaneuver than boost.

Hull upgrade: Depends for each player, but the more I use it, the more I prefer to take an Hull upgrade over a Stealth Device on my Interceptors, it tends to keep them alive longer.

Tactician: While the Empire is more vulnerable to stress tactic, currently the two ship that can take crew for the rebels are the YT-1300 and HWK-290, two ship that use a turret and like outmaneuver, the target needs to be into the firing arc. It will change once the B-Wing can take a crew, but currently, I think the two ship that can benefit the most from tactician is the Shuttle and Firespray since they can combine it with the Ion cannon for a beautiful stress+ion token.

Predator: Benefit both side but, since all rebel already have access to TL and not the Empire, I believe the Empire will benefit more from this one.

Don't mind Wakky Ristol. I'm still trying to bring him around to Outmaneuver on BSPs.

Speaking of which, that thread seems to have been glossed over today. Did I heap too much logic at you people?

MIND ME!

I am a bit Wakky today.

Outmaneuver and turrets... I stand corrected! Little too ranty today. That one I totally blew.

I have plans to try out later tonight to see your side actually, but still loving the Predator.