simple and obvious question i know but...

how many fellow marine players have won either scenario two or three ???

we have played each a few times now...died,died,died, even when i stopped attacking as invader player couple turns just to open a new area,DIED !!

we know the marine card shuffle is a major part to give marines a chance,but even the fast movements,recon etc only help partially...

we only have one marine by the way,being two of us playing,perhaps having two marines controlled would work ..?

have the expansion too,but wanted to play original thru before adding the expansion.

just thought i'd ask,we know its not supposed to be easy but heck getting further than area one or two scenario three might be more fun..

mike

I've played scenario 3 once as invader, full force, no mercy. Yet the marine still managed to save the professors. I can't exactly remember how, but it just proves the scenario is winable. It was a 1 marine game by the way.

It's been a while, but seem to recall scenario 2 being completed on the 4th attempt. First attempt ended nastily, as the Red Key got "Not Quite'd" back to the starting area . After that, the Cyber Demon was the biggest hurdle, always moving back to block the 2-width corridor where the end door is, it wouldn't die. Finally got lucky and managed Berserk -> move to Hell Knight, slap it in the nuts -> Killer Instinct to CD, slap it down as well.

Scenario 3 took 3 or 4 tries. Biggest part in that is clearing the final room, as there are a lot of nooks and crannies where the Invader can keep spawning monsters and the rules say you must clear the area and be on the encounter marker. Hardest bit before that is actually reaching the first scientist in the 7 turns. 2 long corridors, if the Invader can manage to spawn 1-2 large monsters (Hell Knight or Mancubus), Marines have their work cut out for them. From the 1st to the 2nd scientist, you should have plenty of time, same for moving from the 2nd scientist to the end area, where the trouble really kicks up.

Oh, 2 player games these, 1 plays Invader, the other plays 2 Marines.

My group has attempted scenario #2 four times and the marines have gotten humiliated every time. We played twice with two marines and twice with one marine. The closest we got was with 1 marine, where the marine managed to explore the entire map but would have needed at least 2 more frags to escape. In other words, he lost by 3 frags which is a crushing margin. In our other three games, the marines never got more than a couple doors open.

Our string of losses in scenario #2 continues a trend we saw with scenario #1. We take turns playing the invader, but the marines always get crushed. In fact, the marines have yet to win. Ever. Our play as marines is gradually improving but it seems that the invader is much easier to win with, even though he has more to manage. Every time the marines lose, they get another optional rule in their favor. Currently we are up to:
-Organized Marines (no set turn order)
-Well Trained (extra marine card, then discard)
-Fully Loaded (extra ammo)
-Using weaker dud card from the expansion
-In a 1 player game, invaders only draw 1 card (expansion says draw 2).

Next we will be trying Special Forces Training (marines get to pick their cards.) To speed things up the marines will pick from a list of standard card combos. This optional rule should correct a trend where one marine rampages around killing things while the other plays cheerleader but doesn't pull his weight.

I have been playing this game alot and my group as come up with a couple things that help out alot.

draw one extra skill card to choose from

whenever you pick up a weapon you get 1 ammo of its type

when you run out of frags you simply stop respawning, as opposed to insta lose

my group has also finished the first campaign, though after that i keep playing with different sets of people and so have not progressed very far passed that with any particular group

Hum, difficult but certainly not impossible. As for scenario 1, my players almost finished it: they died only because they did an incredible, ridiculous and ludicrous strategic mistake (i.e. enclosing themselves in a room, hoping to get all the stuff inside and letting me spawning all I want outside for 3 consecutive turns. Even the Mancubus had enough time to come close enough to fire...).

We played then in the easy mode (+2 life points and +2 ammunitions), with infinite ammo in guns and Super-Shotgun.

Before that, as a player, with two other players we almost win the scenario 2, with no mods at all, save for selectionning 2 Marine cards out of three. That was our only modification, and we died because I had only one life point left when we had to get over some acid spill... Next time, with the easy mod, I think that we will make it.

The point in Doom is: the Invader has the easiest way to win, marines must have a good tactical mind, otherwise they will die. Invader have to be fairplay too, I mean, it is out of question to rewind and replay a move because we "forgot" something, whereas it is acceptable at the beginning to authorize marines to do it. At the beginning. With a little experience, marines should not ask for that.

We retried Scenario #2 with a 1-Marine game, adding Special Forces Training but drawing 2 cards per expansion rules. My marine chose the following abilities:

Scout.................... Advance/Sprint grants +4 move, Sprint grants Dodge
Lean & Mean...... Dodge grants Watchful ability.
Recon ................. May pass through enemies and obstacles

This turned out to be very effective. The only thing that could stop this guy was demon dogs who could chomp as he ran past. The invader began positioning dogs in corridors to force him to stop and fight. He would have to pause to clear the dog, then it was off to the races while a huge herd of invaders struggled to catch up. I think at the very end, literally every invader was deployed on the table! But the marine just sprinted past, dodged the cyberdemon's blast, and ran out the door with 2 health remaining, 5 frags on the table and 1 card left in the invader deck....! All in all a very close fight that could have gone either way. I recommend it!

Cabello said:

I don't like that mod much. I think the problem is that marine card combinations can be too weak, or they can be much too strong, so this mod can lead to really boring games where the invader can hardly do anything. I used a few house rules to solve this problem, but tried just some of them yet. Here are short descriptions of them, if you like them just ask, and I'll describe them in more detail:

• Prepare 3 or 2 marine card decks. Each marine draws a card from each deck. Alternatively, more marines than necessary are created this way, and the players choose their marines.
• Too strong cards are nerfed, too weak ones are buffed. When all players agree, the invader player may do this after marine cards are drawn, and when he thinks a card combo is imbalanced.
• Create 3x as many marine card combos as necessary. The invader player removes the 1/3 he considers best, the marine players then choose their marines from the remaining 2/3 combos.
• Deal cards as normal, but if a marine is fragged he must discard one of his marine cards, and draw a new one. This way, powerful combos don't remain, and bad cards don't last long. I think this was Tibs' idea, and (except for #2) the only one here I didn't make on my own.
• Marines are dealt points to buy marine cards from. Each marine card has a basic cost, but some cost more if you already own a certain card (e.g. Assassin has a low basic cost, but costs much more if you own Alert or Perfect Aim, for example).

The first mod worked well for me, but the marine card combos were kind of similar, and I missed a little variety. If marine cards were dealt normally and the players weren't content, I often suggest to use mod #2, if all other players agree (e.g. add to "Recon" that the marine can reveal a new area if he ends his movement adjacent to an appropriate door). I think #3 might work almost perfectly, but I didn't try it yet. I never tried #4 and hardly #5, so I can't tell you much about how well it works (I think Tibs was quite content with his mod).