Good lord it's a painful ship. Just for fun a friend and i did a match with our AoIA ships we won

ME:
Blackmoon: R2-D2, Advanced Sensors
Tycho: Outmaneuver, Hull upgrade
Horton: Ion Turret & Stressmech 2000

HIm:
Bounty Hunter: Recon spec
Mauler: PTL, engine upgrade
Whisper: ACD, VI

Game one I conceded.
Reason: First attack round E-wing died, Tycho 2hp left. Him...nothing

Game two: i lost
Every shot on the phantom was evaded. E-wing was one shotted (direct hit blows). Y-wing and A-wing held strong but in the end it was 100-0.

That phantom is a monster let alone being a PS9
At range one it can one shot: 9/16 of the ships available:
A-wing (can happen at 1-3)
X-wing
E-wing
HWK
Z-95 (can happen at 1-3)
Tie Advance
Tie LN (can happen at 1-3)
Tie IN (can happen at 1-3)
Tie Phantom (can happen at 1-3)

that's a little maddening...

Four red dice OP, rito plz nerf.

And yet it doesn't get to shoot every round, but when it does...

And yet it doesn't get to shoot every round, but when it does...

It does with the advanced cloak!

And yet it doesn't get to shoot every round, but when it does...

For a 3 ship build for the Imps, you don't get many guns, and can be low on the hp,but it sure packs a punch. I was playing something similar the other night. Except I had a hlc on Krassis.

I've come up with a few other builds

One includes 2 Omnicron pilots, and another which I call Scarlets ghost has expert handling on Kath.

Can't wait to try them on my next game

Good lord it's a painful ship. Just for fun a friend and i did a match with our AoIA ships we won

ME:

Blackmoon: R2-D2, Advanced Sensors

Tycho: Outmaneuver, Hull upgrade

Horton: Ion Turret & Stressmech 2000

HIm:

Bounty Hunter: Recon spec

Mauler: PTL, engine upgrade

Whisper: ACD, VI

Game one I conceded.

Reason: First attack round E-wing died, Tycho 2hp left. Him...nothing

Game two: i lost

Every shot on the phantom was evaded. E-wing was one shotted (direct hit blows). Y-wing and A-wing held strong but in the end it was 100-0.

That phantom is a monster let alone being a PS9

At range one it can one shot: 9/16 of the ships available:

A-wing (can happen at 1-3)

X-wing

E-wing

HWK

Z-95 (can happen at 1-3)

Tie Advance

Tie LN (can happen at 1-3)

Tie IN (can happen at 1-3)

Tie Phantom (can happen at 1-3)

that's a little maddening...

Once your E-wing dies you've lost because you will not hit the Phantom. Beyond that your dice were clearly bad. One shot E-wing... The odda of that, even on a Phantom, are painfully low.

I've been play testing the Phantom for over a month now and have seen it get one shotted way more often then it one shots another ship.

Four red dice OP, rito plz nerf.

You're getting LoL on your X-Wing

You have a .2% Chance to be one shot in an E-Wing. .005 if you have a focus token. That isn't a viable set of odds to worry about. The only ships the Phantom will be one shotting with any reglarity are our 3 Hull friends, and the occasional Z-95.

The lesson here is have defensive tokens. You will need them against Phantoms. Focus or Evade. Don't target lock if it can shoot you. Don't barrel roll for the range one shot or possible arc dodge. Take a focus or an evade.And don't run 3 ship lists with an A-Wing and Y-Wing on them. They don't do enough. Stressbot can do a lot against phantoms IF he's on a higher PS ship than the Phantom. Pop him on Wes. Pop in Hobbie and have Roark. Use Swarm tactics. But you need to stress the Phantom BEFORE it shoots.

Four red dice OP, rito plz nerf.

You're getting LoL on your X-Wing

Wurf.

It seems that everyone is forgetting about those lovely direct hit crts!

If you really want to talk about what can be one shotted with 4/5 dice, you need to consider direct hits... So

Ship, dice required to 1 shot

X wing - 4 dice

Y wing - 6 dice

A wing - 3 dice

ORS - 7 dice

MF - 9 dice

B wing - 7 dice

HWK - 3 dice

E wing - 4 dice

Z95 - 3 dice

/ln - 2 dice

/x1 - 4 dice

/in - 2 dice

FS - 7 dice

/sa - 3 dice

Whale - 8 dice

/d - 5 dice

p37 - 3 dice

So, the phantom can 1 shot at R3 everything that only requires 4 dice... Which technically could already be done with an HLC + TL, so nothing new there.

And it can 1 shot anything that requires 5 at R1, which could already be done (and more reliably one could argue) with an APT, or X/B/MF + Jan, or X/B/MF + Opp, or in/FS/d + Opp... Soooo... Have some cheese?

Also, the odds of 1 shotting an E wing at R3 is pathetically small... getting 4 hits w/ a F is a 32% chance... having at least one being a crit is a 41% chance... then 4 blanks (w/ modifier) on defense is 15%... and then drawing a direct hit (or minor explosion and getting a second damage) is 23%... Soooooooo, the BEST CASE SCENARIO of the one shot is .45%... Do you like Mozzarella or Cheddar?

I had my hwk one shoted in a game. Got to hate the direct hit card

Actually the odds of a crit with a focus are less than 41%. It has to be a target lock for that. But the odds of one shotting any ship with 5 Hull/shields are pathetically low. Let alone one with 3 agility.

Four red dice OP, rito plz nerf.

Not calling for a nerf, but it is a ship that needs to be dealt with differently. most rebel ships can go 1v1 head to head with any ship...but not this one.

Good lord it's a painful ship. Just for fun a friend and i did a match with our AoIA ships we won

ME:

Blackmoon: R2-D2, Advanced Sensors

Tycho: Outmaneuver, Hull upgrade

Horton: Ion Turret & Stressmech 2000

HIm:

Bounty Hunter: Recon spec

Mauler: PTL, engine upgrade

Whisper: ACD, VI

Game one I conceded.

Reason: First attack round E-wing died, Tycho 2hp left. Him...nothing

Game two: i lost

Every shot on the phantom was evaded. E-wing was one shotted (direct hit blows). Y-wing and A-wing held strong but in the end it was 100-0.

That phantom is a monster let alone being a PS9

At range one it can one shot: 9/16 of the ships available:

A-wing (can happen at 1-3)

X-wing

E-wing

HWK

Z-95 (can happen at 1-3)

Tie Advance

Tie LN (can happen at 1-3)

Tie IN (can happen at 1-3)

Tie Phantom (can happen at 1-3)

that's a little maddening...

Try not running a 3 ship build. If your build looked like it was competitive I'd say sure. You might be onto something. But you've got 3 ships with very limited offense.

Once your E-wing dies you've lost because you will not hit the Phantom. Beyond that your dice were clearly bad. One shot E-wing... The odda of that, even on a Phantom, are painfully low.

It was a list feature the E-wing and meant to have some fun, and try to keep pace with the phantom. except horton, the ion means he doesn't have to be maneuverable.

It seems that everyone is forgetting about those lovely direct hit crts!

If you really want to talk about what can be one shotted with 4/5 dice, you need to consider direct hits... So

Ship, dice required to 1 shot

X wing - 4 dice

Y wing - 6 dice

A wing - 3 dice

ORS - 7 dice

MF - 9 dice

B wing - 7 dice

HWK - 3 dice

E wing - 4 dice

Z95 - 3 dice

/ln - 2 dice

/x1 - 4 dice

/in - 2 dice

FS - 7 dice

/sa - 3 dice

Whale - 8 dice

/d - 5 dice

p37 - 3 dice

So, the phantom can 1 shot at R3 everything that only requires 4 dice... Which technically could already be done with an HLC + TL, so nothing new there.

And it can 1 shot anything that requires 5 at R1, which could already be done (and more reliably one could argue) with an APT, or X/B/MF + Jan, or X/B/MF + Opp, or in/FS/d + Opp... Soooo... Have some cheese?

Also, the odds of 1 shotting an E wing at R3 is pathetically small... getting 4 hits w/ a F is a 32% chance... having at least one being a crit is a 41% chance... then 4 blanks (w/ modifier) on defense is 15%... and then drawing a direct hit (or minor explosion and getting a second damage) is 23%... Soooooooo, the BEST CASE SCENARIO of the one shot is .45%... Do you like Mozzarella or Cheddar?

his first attack against the E-wing stripped one shield. did a slight 2 restoring that shield & taking focus action. but he got behind me at range one.

he rolled: 4 hits 1 crit

I rolled:2 blanks 1 evade

direct hit...dead

likei said I'm not shouting NERFNERFNERF. that ship is going to be very painful and deadly in the hands of those who can fly it well.

Actually the odds of a crit with a focus are less than 41%. It has to be a target lock for that. But the odds of one shotting any ship with 5 Hull/shields are pathetically low. Let alone one with 3 agility.

You're miss interpreting. 41% represents the odds of getting at least 1 crit when rolling 4 dice. 1-(7/8)^4= 41%... This just represents the chance of getting 1 or more crits, it does not speak to the rest of the dice. The chance of rolling 4 hit/crit results (with a focus) with 4 dice is 32% ((6/8)^4 = 32%) ... The intersection of the two is the chance of getting at least 1 crit AND rolling 4 hit/crit... .32 * . 41 = 13.12%. 13.12% represents the probability that with a focus, you will roll 1+ crits, and 0 blanks (indicating that the non-crits are all hits).

The 13.12% is then multipled by the defense 15% chance of all blanks/focuses ((5/8)^4)... This 1.968% is the chance of all 3 shields being stripped, and then a crit going through to the hull. Then, there's a 24% chance that said crit is worth 2 damage (7/33 + 2/33*3/8)... resulting in the .5% chance of being one shotted.

Actually the odds of a crit with a focus are less than 41%. It has to be a target lock for that. But the odds of one shotting any ship with 5 Hull/shields are pathetically low. Let alone one with 3 agility.

You're miss interpreting. 41% represents the odds of getting at least 1 crit when rolling 4 dice. 1-(7/8)^4= 41%... This just represents the chance of getting 1 or more crits, it does not speak to the rest of the dice. The chance of rolling 4 hit/crit results (with a focus) with 4 dice is 32% ((6/8)^4 = 32%) ... The intersection of the two is the chance of getting at least 1 crit AND rolling 4 hit/crit... .32 * . 41 = 13.12%. 13.12% represents the probability that with a focus, you will roll 1+ crits, and 0 blanks (indicating that the non-crits are all hits).

The 13.12% is then multipled by the defense 15% chance of all blanks/focuses ((5/8)^4)... This 1.968% is the chance of all 3 shields being stripped, and then a crit going through to the hull. Then, there's a 24% chance that said crit is worth 2 damage (7/33 + 2/33*3/8)... resulting in the .5% chance of being one shotted.

I see. We got pretty different numbers then.

I did .75^3 * 1/8*5/8^3*7/33. I don't think your addition of minor explosion covers the difference.

Not calling for a nerf, but it is a ship that needs to be dealt with differently. most rebel ships can go 1v1 head to head with any ship...but not this one.

What are you talking about? Have your A-wing go head-to-head with a Firespray, or an X-wing versus Fel with PTL, Hull, and Stealth.

Blackmoon: R2-D2, Advanced Sensors

Tycho: Outmaneuver, Hull upgrade

Horton: Ion Turret & Stressmech 2000

Try not running a 3 ship build. If your build looked like it was competitive I'd say sure. You might be onto something. But you've got 3 ships with very limited offense.

Aminar is right: your opponent's list was okay (far too many points wasted on Mauler, but good builds for the stronger ships), but your list--sorry to say, but it's really weak.

I ran a game at the local store yesterday. Echo w/ VI, Advanced Cloak and Sensors and a Recon Specialist, along with a PTL Sabre, Lorrir and an Academy, facing off against Wedge, Corran Horn (w/ R2-D2 and Determination) and Ten Nunb. Lost Lorrir and the Academy TIE.

The two biggest challenges I had:

1) Remembering to actually use the Advanced Cloak after firing. Not a problem in a friendly, not something to expect people to forgive in a tourney.

2) When planning out your moves, you need to think several turns ahead. You're effectively going to be making the equivelent of two moves with these things with every decloak, and you need to be able to plan for where those two moves are going to send you next turn.

And yet it doesn't get to shoot every round, but when it does...

Sure it does, why doesn't it? Both games I played the other night with it, it fired every round.

For a 3 ship build for the Imps, you don't get many guns, and can be low on the hp,but it sure packs a punch. I was playing something similar the other night. Except I had a hlc on Krassis.

I've come up with a few other builds

One includes 2 Omnicron pilots, and another which I call Scarlets ghost has expert handling on Kath.

Can't wait to try them on my next game

Versus a strong Wave 4 build, it is still fairly easy to single it out on the initial approach, cloak or not. (barring Echo, which is just fun) And if you drop that Cloak, you better have init or super hot Defense dice.

Actually the odds of a crit with a focus are less than 41%. It has to be a target lock for that. But the odds of one shotting any ship with 5 Hull/shields are pathetically low. Let alone one with 3 agility.

You're miss interpreting. 41% represents the odds of getting at least 1 crit when rolling 4 dice. 1-(7/8)^4= 41%... This just represents the chance of getting 1 or more crits, it does not speak to the rest of the dice. The chance of rolling 4 hit/crit results (with a focus) with 4 dice is 32% ((6/8)^4 = 32%) ... The intersection of the two is the chance of getting at least 1 crit AND rolling 4 hit/crit... .32 * . 41 = 13.12%. 13.12% represents the probability that with a focus, you will roll 1+ crits, and 0 blanks (indicating that the non-crits are all hits).

The 13.12% is then multipled by the defense 15% chance of all blanks/focuses ((5/8)^4)... This 1.968% is the chance of all 3 shields being stripped, and then a crit going through to the hull. Then, there's a 24% chance that said crit is worth 2 damage (7/33 + 2/33*3/8)... resulting in the .5% chance of being one shotted.

I see. We got pretty different numbers then.

I did .75^3 * 1/8*5/8^3*7/33. I don't think your addition of minor explosion covers the difference.

Your math is wrong (as is mine), and our assumptions are different. First off, I said R3, so I had 4 agility dice instead of the 3 you used.

Secondly, your math on the hits/crits is wrong. If you're to do it that way, you need a x4 in there... You're saying 1 of the dice is a crit, and the three others can be hit/crit/focus... but there are 4 combos to produce that result (die 1 = crit, die 2 = crit, die 3 = crit, die 4 = crit), thus the need for x4.

.75^3*.125*4 = 21.09%

But you're right, the 13% I got should be wrong. Now that I'm thinking it through (4 hits) N (1+ crit) are not independent... For a logical test (0hit) N (1+crit) yields .06 * .33 = 2% chance of getting 1+ crit and zero total hit/crits... That's obviously false.

So lets go with your method if 3 hit/crit/focus and 1 crit yielding 21.09%... So, that means

@ R2, chance of 1 shotting an ewing = 1.24%

@ R3, chance of 1 shotting an ewing = .75%

I ran a game at the local store yesterday. Echo w/ VI, Advanced Cloak and Sensors and a Recon Specialist, along with a PTL Sabre, Lorrir and an Academy, facing off against Wedge, Corran Horn (w/ R2-D2 and Determination) and Ten Nunb. Lost Lorrir and the Academy TIE.

The two biggest challenges I had:

1) Remembering to actually use the Advanced Cloak after firing. Not a problem in a friendly, not something to expect people to forgive in a tourney.

2) When planning out your moves, you need to think several turns ahead. You're effectively going to be making the equivelent of two moves with these things with every decloak, and you need to be able to plan for where those two moves are going to send you next turn.

I ran "Echo" in the final table match at my AoIA event and forgot to cloak after firing R1 at Etahn. I only took down two shields while he blew me away. With enough practice I won't be making the same mistake again.

Also you're absolutely right with having to think two moves ahead. It will take some getting used to/practice but the phantom was so much fun to fly. I think the next chance I get I'll try running "Echo" again with 2x RGP with PtL

@Keffisch

Well unless you have two or more ships firing at a higher ps than 8? It can still survive while decloaked. I always focus, but if I needed I could evade. Either way I still have 2 defend dice which is all a xwing gets. The evade or focus can help it.

It's all about maneuvering. You may think you know where its going to be, but if your opponent is smart he should know where your expecting it, and go somewhere else.

Many times have I heard "I didn't expect that " and it works

Plus you better hope the dice don't crap out on ya

While your busy chasing it, if you don't kill it quick, it's attacking with 4 attack dice and along with other things. The battle can go either way. Imo I believe the Panton is the deadliest ship out of wave 4

Don't get me wrong they all have their place, but the Phantom packs a punch along with highly maneuverable

Yeah I played a game the other night where I one-shot Wedge.

I basically sat back and said "wow".

It does happen

3 hit 1 crit + direct hit all it takes

It does happen

3 hit 1 crit + direct hit all it takes

Which as we've said. Best case scenario, about 1 in 75 or so shots will pull all of that off. Don't count on it.