Really disappointed about there not being any huge Imperial Ships yet. If they did want to scrap the idea, at least balance it first. At the very least you would think it would be in FFG's interest to make an announcement before they turn off many fans ala GW...transparency breeds trust and loyalty on the part of the consumer. I digress.

While I'd prefer a uniquely Imperial ship, it is a option to repaint (Just for fun) the CR90 and use Imperial upgrades and the generic from the set.

JW

FFG never said they would make huge ships for the empire. They said that they would like to and they would see about it later. Keep this in mind, they have NEVER LIED TO US... EVER !

Really disappointed about there not being any huge Imperial Ships yet. If they did want to scrap the idea, at least balance it first.

Once again: what is leading folks to make the jump from "no Epic announcement at GenCon" to "Epic has been scrapped"?

FFG never said they would make huge ships for the empire. They said that they would like to and they would see about it later. Keep this in mind, they have NEVER LIED TO US... EVER !

So really, what we can take from this thread is that the Nebulon B Frigate is FREAKING AWESOME and we CAN'T WAIT for FFG to produce it so we can field this bad boy in an pic game. Am I right?

Oh I don't know, they have some serious playtesting to do before the throw something like this into the mix.

Just in playtesting my DP20 I get the sense that anything larger than the CR90 on the playfield with other huge ships is going to make the fighters look like the mosquitoes of the battle.

As I'm sure you can figure out, but fully energized, with an Engineering team,

this thing can fire 11 weapons on the second combat phase.

( from here )

•

Need to tone down the Energy gain on this (As if the Rag-tag inept rustics needed more huge ships).

I get it is supposed to be a gunship, but the energy gain is way to high especially since it already has 4 primary firepower.

The CR-90 is a blockade runner, the DP-20 is a gunship.

Give the DP-20 the energy gain of the CR-90 at 1 and 2 speeds but only the energy gain of the GR-75 at 3 and 4.

That way the CR-90 does better at high speeds but the DP-20 will have as much firepower at the smaller speeds.

However I would say the DP-20 upgrades would look good on the Tartaran Patrol Cruiser.

has more energy and more maneuverability than the CR90.

I don't see your reasoning for ever having the DP20 have less energy.

Perhaps if you elaborate.

Sorry, all I got for references for the DP-90 is Star Wars Empire at War Forces of Corruption (my so called essentials guide which has the Tie RC doesn't even mention it.). I just think at speeds 3 and 4 the energy should match the CR-90. I am just trying to think of ways to make the CR-90 the blockade runner so it will function better at full speeds where the DP-90 will be better at turns.

Haven't given up on this.

This is the size of the Rebels ships (official sizes, all at the same scale):

I keep forgetting to mention to you that the DP20 actually has 14 turbolasers and your model has only 10. And also the rear isn't solid, it has side extensions for the gun emplacements and I would guess also side armor for the engines. If the Imperial huge ships are something else I hope you make this one available.

I believe the last rendition above is inspired by an image in "Star Wars D20 - Starships of the galaxy" page 91. The top image side view has been used in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook, page 61.

This last one is from the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, volume one page 142.

The version we are currently playtesting.

DP20 Gunship (Fore) (65)

Mara Jade (3)

Tactician (2)

Gunnery Team (4)

Backup Shield Generator (3)

Single Turbolaser (8)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Cluster Missiles (4)

DP20 Gunship (Aft) (55)

Rebel Captive (4)

Sensory Team (4)

Engineering Team (3)

Single Turbolaser (8)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Assault Missiles (5)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 234

Versus

Han Solo (46)

Predator (3)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

Chewbacca (4)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Lando Calrissian (44)

Determination (1)

Luke Skywalker (7)

Recon Specialist (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Airen Cracken (19)

Determination (1)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Lieutenant Blount (17)

Push the Limit (3)

Assault Missiles (5)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Blackmoon Squadron Pilot (29)

Accuracy Corrector (3)

R2 Astromech (1)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Total: 224

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Darth Vader and Mara Jade are 'broken' on epic ships.

Darth Vader and Mara Jade are 'broken' on epic ships.

Last time I played with a huge ship I took out one large a three small just by ramming them, so though Mara is there mainly for the stress theme set of crew, she'll do fine by the way I fly huge ships.

What you mean is that they are overpowered. I disagree with that assessment of Mara Jade because she is effective only at a range of one. On the other hand Tactician works every time you attack a ship that is at range two, and for the current DP20 version I discovered that it's crazy when the ship is equipped with Quad Laser Cannons and Cluster Missiles.

I should say first of all that neither of us liked how this game went.

And it didn't help that it got left on the table for a week half way through.

I got such a good feel for what an Imperial Huge ship will be like,

that I am very hopeful that what the Imperial's get is worth much more points that a CR90.

As I said above, with the list on this ship Tactician was huge.

Quad Laser Cannons goes out to range two and Cluster Missiles also to range two,

and each of them has the potential to give two stress tokens,

for a total of EIGHT stress tokens on one target at range two.

One thing I did realize is that, though I did start with an overpowered ship in the beginning

and gave the opposing side a lot of points to counter that, I'm still at a point with this set of

cards where I can see it playing effectively but it is still just a tad over powered and it would

take much more than the points we used to defeat it.

(photo limit break)

Incidentally, she said she believes that she played badly, and as soon as I destroyed her last ship

she demanded a rematch. I originally wanted to swap sides when we both have the time for another game,

but she definitely wants to redeem herself and have a rematch. Which is good because that means

we'll have three games or maybe four at least with this set of cards.

The fixes that come right to mind for this set are:

1) Flip over the missile upgrade cards after use and charge one energy to reload.

2) Correct the energy output for the maneuver dials to something with more of a tapering curve.

Because of a combination of K-turns and Tactician, Mara Jade didn't even come into play.

It would seem to me that the answer to Imperial huge ships coming out later is not to say to the Rebels, "ha ha your huge ships are lolbad" but instead make some that are balanced. The DP20 presented in this thread is better than the CR90 in every way. Faster, more energy, more guns, missiles, more crew slots, everything. There has to be SOMETHING that it is not better than the CR90 at.

The idea of replenishing missiles is a neat one, and characterful from what I recall of the DP20 in various video games. Making the concept simply a 'missile hardpoint' card that attacks only in a fixed arc I think would be better than putting a missile icon on the upgrade bar though. Such an ability is dramatically more valuable than the 3 or 4 points that most missile cards cost, and rolling the cost into the Pilot card penalizes those who are not equipping missiles.

If you want to have a gazillion hardpoints on a smaller ship, something has to go. I'd say no cargo slots, period. Cargo slots represent large spaces in the hull not given over to systems, and the CR90 gets them because all its fluff talks about how modifiable it was. The DP20 is a dedicated combat warship and that is it. Likewise, having 45 gunners means you get a gazillion hardpoints, not a gazillion crew and team slots. One of each should do it and be key to balancing it against the CR90.

TL:DR - Unlimited missiles are a cool idea, but should be hardpoints. The DP20 should have more hardpoints and energy than the CR90 but no cargo and less crew/teams.

TL:DR - Unlimited missiles are a cool idea, but should be hardpoints. The DP20 should have more hardpoints and energy than the CR90 but no cargo and less crew/teams.

Thanks for your TLDR but I'm a reasoning person and as such I get reasoning.

Before I respond to your points I'm going to come at you from the opposite angle.

I reinvisioned this set of cards because Alberto's (MelMini) version,

with 2 more hull than the CR90 overall (16 vs 18), made no sense to me.

The Nebulon B Frigate is supposed to be a least double the size of the CR90 Corvette

and I had to have a card the showed that aspect and that also made sense to use in that

it was considerate of the comparison of the features of both starships, not just a big miniature.

When I started designing a card for the DP20 Gunship was considerate of scale in all areas:

It is a physically smaller ship so less hull, it has three times more armament so more hardpoints.

There were people who had their say and then lost interest because I settled on having

11 weapon upgrades.But since then I've backed away from linear ratios and worked

with a reformulation to get where I am at with the weapons. So to the criticism that

the DP20 is better than the CR90, I'd say that the ship is better in just about every way.

With the stats/specs I used for comparison aside from physical size, the DP20 is a superior ship.

If your main goal is to design a ship that costs the same amount of points

for the fore section and the aft section so that both ships are 90 points,

then your design is going to look very different from what I set out to design.

I've been considerate of game mechanics, but I think that matching points in

squad building takes care of whether things are balanced.

I set out to design a ship that was an equal translation, similar formula,

for a representation of the ship in game terms, not for another 90 point ship.

I will admit that I have struggled to decide what would be fair in representing

the difference in such things as ship's personnel. If you include the dedicated

gunner crew then the DP20 could have three times the crew of the CR90.

So again, the CR90 looks like it could have more crew because of it's size

but one configuration has it at 30 people, while the DP20 is at 91 people.

On the other hand the CR90 could have up to 600 passengers and

also ten times the cargo space. But what are these? Aside from the

the Huge ship upgrade cards that say "GR75 only" those upgrade cards

are just systems, and the passengers are not at all the same as crew cards

so the DP20 is the ship that should have more crew and team upgrade slots.

You're assuming the "CR90 gets cargo because all its fluff talks about

how modifiable it was" but I don't equate a few specialty systems that the

cargo upgrades represent to necessarily represent that modifiability

of the starship translated into game terms.

For example, where is the upgrade that represents 600 passenger

liner version, or for that matter the troop transport version,

or cargo freighter version or the light fighter carrier version?

If you really believe your own reasoning about the DP20 being a

dedicated warship, then ask yourself what are most of the cargo

upgrade cards and team upgrade cards about, aren't they about

combat? and why doesn't that fit a warship? Just as the game

mechanics, although some only indirectly, are about combat,

You'd have to convince me that a warship wouldn't do it, though

I could see restrictions being made for the odd one like the

Tibanna Gas Supplies because it is literally cargo, but the

rest are ships systems which any warship might also have.

I would assume they used the term Cargo for the upgrade slot

simply because the term System was already being used.

Having zero upgrade slots for the those cards didn't make sense

to me so I added one for this version, but I can see maybe some

sort of damage/combat effect upgrade restriction being reasonable.

I don't disagree with you about a specific missile "hardpoint upgrade,"

but I don't see it as worthwhile to start over when the game designers

keep adding unique missiles to the game that would work just as well.

In other words, if I can make regular missile slots work, then it's worth

the variety and I don't mind dropping to side arcs from turret arcs.

Maybe ease up on your use of the term "gazillion" (lol) as the thread

has been pretty transparent about the stats being quantified/translated

fairly while sill trying to be accurate/true to what the ship is. I don't know

of any ship in the game that is supposed to have 46 dedicated gunners.

I also think the aft primary weapon turret is a serious threat, but it

accurately represents the threat that the DP20 Gunship is and

I won't be backing away from that part of the design mechanics.

I was using the GR75 maneuver dial with +2 energy per maneuver

for the difference between the CR90 and the more powerful DP20

but that does seems just a little bit too much and it would bring it

down in points to have that lowered along with the cost to reload missiles.

I'll go back to playtesting now, thanks.

Wow I think its great that you're putting together huge ship ideas like this. Are you using Photoshop to make the cards? Very cool.

A variety of programs depending on the edit,

mainly because I don't have experience with something as fancy as Photoshop.

For most things pasting together bits of other images will work with MSPaint,

which is the basic program that comes with all Windows versions.

It has everything I need except a cloning tool, I use Pixlr for that.

It helps to have all the cards released in digital form to mess with.

I was going to post photos of the rematch but they are very similar to the last game.
The big difference being that it was a much closer game, down to the E-wing vs a TIE fighter.
The lower energy output for higher speeds and the energy cost to reload missiles did the trick.

Without the TIE escorts the DP20 would have lost much worse much sooner.

Okay three photos.

I'll try to update the card and make a matching cripple side soon.

Also looking forward to incorporating this new spoiled Ion Cannon Hardpoint card.

And I thought I understood the look of this ship and then I find this.

Not blocky at all, but armored.

That's much sexier.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you find these pictures? I'm looking to make a custom game mat, and I've been looking for a good quality top down view of this bad boy. This model looks like it would be a good fit for my needs.

And I thought I understood the look of this ship and then I find this.

Not blocky at all, but armored.

That's much sexier.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you find these pictures? I'm looking to make a custom game mat, and I've been looking for a good quality top down view of this bad boy. This model looks like it would be a good fit for my needs.

I don't remember the site, but backtracking from the links I believe they belong to this guy.

http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Voidscsberlin/profile/

I think he removed them from all sites except the photobucket folder, because they design is wrong,

the shoulders are too angled, and those guns are on the outside. I would ask Torsten Logemann directly.

This is a similar version by someone else.

http://swc.fs2downloads.com/sshot.php?subdir=Capships/Gunship/

It appears that anyone with Blender can make one.

And I thought I understood the look of this ship and then I find this.

Not blocky at all, but armored.

That's much sexier.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you find these pictures? I'm looking to make a custom game mat, and I've been looking for a good quality top down view of this bad boy. This model looks like it would be a good fit for my needs.

I don't remember the site, but backtracking from the links I believe they belong to this guy.

http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Voidscsberlin/profile/

I think he removed them from all sites except the photobucket folder, because they design is wrong,

the shoulders are too angled, and those guns are on the outside. I would ask Torsten Logemann directly.

This is a similar version by someone else.

http://swc.fs2downloads.com/sshot.php?subdir=Capships/Gunship/

It appears that anyone with Blender can make one.

Thanks a bunch!

What does it mean to "reload", and what happens if I attack and don't have any energy? What does it mean when a ship that "does not discard missiles" gets a Munitions Failure damage card? If the aft section has a turret, why is there no Attack value listed on the aft section card? What is the end of an edge? Why is target lock missing from the action bar of a ship that can equip missiles?

What does it mean to "reload", and what happens if I attack and don't have any energy? What does it mean when a ship that "does not discard missiles" gets a Munitions Failure damage card? If the aft section has a turret, why is there no Attack value listed on the aft section card? What is the end of an edge? Why is target lock missing from the action bar of a ship that can equip missiles?

• The reload idea is covered a few posts above this one, instead of discarding the missile cards they are flipped face down, and can only be flipped back up if one point of energy is spent.

The fixes that come right to mind for this set are:

1) Flip over the missile upgrade cards after use and charge one energy to reload.

2) Correct the energy output for the maneuver dials to something with more of a tapering curve.

• All missile cards themselves refer to discarding the card to use the missile, so the "does not discard" applies to it's use only, it doesn't trump the damage card which isn't about what the missile card says. (I may be able to bump the words "primary arcs" to add "after use.")

• There is no attack value for the aft turret because it is the same as the fore turret and would be redundant.

• The huge ship rules cover the reason for and use of the blue line on huge ships well enough that I don't have waste space explaining it on the card. The blue line is not infinite, so the blue line has two ends, which create a 304° arc for each turret on the miniature base card. Also discussed earlier.

• The target lock is missing from both action bars because we were watching an engrossing movie and I completely messed up copying the actions of Imperial version of the cards. ... It is now fixed .