Official answer. Followed by Night is a special exception, as are cards targeting "all" of something. In that case, "all" could be 0. Otherwise, you have to choose an effect that you can resolve if possible.

When resolving any When Revealed effect that gives you a choice between two effects, you must choose an effect that you can fully resolve. Followed by Night is an odd example because you can always resolve either effect. That’s because it targets either ‘all allies’ or ‘all enemies’ and the word ‘all’ can include 0.
Good question. Please don’t hesitate to write again if you have more.
Cheers,
Caleb

funny how people ask for help but do to believe what they are told and have to ask the designers. Seams like M and I were wasting ur breath... why not just ask the designers first?

funny how people ask for help but do to believe what they are told and have to ask the designers. Seams like M and I were wasting ur breath... why not just ask the designers first?

So in the end your the one that really needs to go read the rulebook again. Mndela made some very good points in this thread, his breath is not wasted. Only yours was.

right... cause me being completely correct and you being completely wrong had nothing going for it. Sour grapes much? Just suck it up man! hehe

right... cause me being completely correct and you being completely wrong had nothing going for it. Sour grapes much? Just suck it up man! hehe

lol wut. Dude I don't even understand what your trying to say. sour grapes? your the one who is completely wrong AND the one having a whinge and trying to make up some nonsense about wah wah people ask for help but then don't accept my completely wrong answer and instead ask Caleb who is the lead designer, how dare they! when really your just upset that you were completely wrong. You are too funny.

Also your the one who made it nasty first and said I needed to go and re read the rulebook and then complained about people asking questions on the forums and not just blindly trusting answers from you. Don't try to act too cool now, you were rude, insulting and then completely wrong. I wouldn't have even said anything at all had you not had a whinge about your advice not being followed and your "wasted breath".

Helping those new to the game is not a waste of breath even if they have to ask the developers in the end.

if the card has multiple options to choose from, you can choose either option.. even if that option fizzles and can not resolve.

Quit being a jerk booored. You came in here and started talking about "fizzling." And you absolutely were wasting your breath, as it's impossible to listen to anything you say as far as rulings go because you believe you're 100% right all the time but never actually back any of it up with any substantial evidence. And this only furthers that, since you weren't even close to correct.

Bwahaha. So not only can you to not understand the basic rules of the game, you can't understand the explanations given to you by the better players. rofl... not much hope for you guys!

Bwahaha. So not only can you to not understand the basic rules of the game, you can't understand the explanations given to you by the better players. rofl... not much hope for you guys!

"So not only can you to not understand the basic rules of the game,"

Worst grammar ever, no wonder no one understands you. I haven't seen any other users on here post as often as you and be completely wrong rules wise so often by the way. Not even new players, and they are at least new to the game, you are not and have been on here a lot longer than I have so you have no excuse.

Clearly it is you who does not understand the basic rules or any sort of social etiquette either and should learn to have respect for other players, who are without a doubt hands down better players than you, don't make me laugh, with the amount of incorrect rulings and ideas you have on here I doubt you have legitimately beaten many quests at all. Constantly people are having to tell you that cards do not work the way you think they do.

I actually feel bad for how caught up in your own ignorance and denial you seem to be, not much hope for us? man we're fine, maybe look at yourself and how much of a **** you are to everyone on here, especially people who play two handed and how badly you understand the rules, constantly making wrong assumptions and rulings and insisting to others (worst of all those who are new to the game) that they are in fact correct. Not gonna bother replying again as you are 100% just going to make some other short nonsense asinine post trying to show that you are somehow superior to us regardless of how rude and wrong you seem to perpetually be.

Bwahaha. So not only can you to not understand the basic rules of the game, you can't understand the explanations given to you by the better players. rofl... not much hope for you guys!

Yeah, you know I was trying to grasp your EXCELLENT explanation of how you can choose any option on a card presenting a choice (even though it turns out you totally can't) and my brain just FIZZLED right out.

Lol... man you are pretentious.

Well...

This thread got an official response that enlight us on another shrouded rule, and will make us better understand the mechanics of this game.

And I start to re read only Booored post on this thread, and he come up completly right.

It appears to me that you are only bashing him because he may appear lofty, but you two answering him in complete nonsense (since, you know, he IS right, the answer he gave totally match with Caleb answer ON THIS POINT) and you are as disrespectfull as you say he is.

Then, Booored being right on this point appear to be only a fluke as he is right only when the wording include "all", wich can "fizzle" but we now know that if there is a future case that doesn't include "all", he might not have been right. Booored give short and correct answer to question ask by begginer (at least, as far as I remember). We can agree he lake in explanation when it comes to debating rules and bragging about unescessary official answer is too much. But see how you treat him too. If I am to say who is giving bad vibes to this forum, I would not separate Chris51261 and PsychoRocka from Booored.

The original question was about return to mirkwood nightmare not the card followed by night.

Reread the ruling dude, he was wrong.

The ruling from Cale

Official answer. Followed by Night is a special exception, as are cards targeting "all" of something. In that case, "all" could be 0. Otherwise, you have to choose an effect that you can resolve if possible.

When resolving any When Revealed effect that gives you a choice between two effects, you must choose an effect that you can fully resolve. Followed by Night is an odd example because you can always resolve either effect. That’s because it targets either ‘all allies’ or ‘all enemies’ and the word ‘all’ can include 0.[/size] Good question. Please don’t hesitate to write again if you have more.[/size] Cheers,[/size] Caleb[/size]

Sorry, it was a long post, I was trying to get it short, but it seems it was too short in my explanation.

So you know that his post was about the Nightmare instruction for Return to Mirkwood and not Followed by Night. Well, as I am not him, and based on the fact he was saying he was right, I assumed he was talking about the other. That's why I capitalize 2 things on my post, the other was "ON THIS POINT" that, in my head, was a shortcut to this post I'm writting now. Since it's not the OP, it surely might be too confusing and should have spent more time to be this accurate. Well, it's done now. If you find any other point that might be still unclear, please fill free to point it out.

Many of the problem comes from that, we do not have enough time to explain ourself throughfully, but when we are reading other, we do not consider that enough and jump to conclusion.

it amazes me pebbels can still not see what is going on here. It is kind of unbelievable.

This is exactly what Caleb said. Should I have taken more time to spoon feed it to everyone.. I guess so. I just expected more I guess. Next time I'll make very detailed posts so even fools can work it out.

"When resolving any When Revealed effect that gives you a choice between two effects, you must choose an effect that you can fully resolve. Followed by Night is an odd example because you can always resolve either effect. That’s because it targets either ‘all allies’ or ‘all enemies’ and the word ‘all’ can include 0." - from caleb

This is obviously some bizarro post where saying the opposite of the ruling means you're totally right, so I'm out. Sorry to "disrespect" booored, who is always so considerate of others.

This is obviously some bizarro post where saying the opposite of the ruling means you're totally right, so I'm out. Sorry to "disrespect" booored, who is always so considerate of others.

this thread is making my head hurt - haha. total bizarro world!

you cannot choose an effect that fizzles if the card says "must," according to Caleb. it's as plain as day. you must choose something that affects the game state (i.e. is able to "fully resolve").

Thank you Dain

OMG... you boys must be trolling.. no one can be this wrong without doing it on purpose.

The point is that these card fizzle. The "all" keyword triggers even on zero cards. It is like a blanket effects that targets all and not individual cards. So the card effect triggers but it fizzles.. that is what fizzles means in card game terms in case you missed the last 30 years of gaming.. fizzles does not mean .. "does / can not resolve".. it means " it resolves but has no effect".

When resolving any When Revealed effect that gives you a choice between two effects, you must choose an effect that you can fully resolve . Followed by Night is an odd example because you can always resolve either effect. That’s because it targets either ‘all allies’ or ‘all enemies’ and the word ‘all’ can include 0 .Good question. Please don’t hesitate to write again if you have more.

Cheers,

Caleb

So.. this is exactly what I said.. if the effects fizzles.. then you can pick either, as both ALWAYS RESOLVE. Regardless of if there is an effect during that resolution.

I just finished reading this post and just want to sum it up for my own understanding, as well as that of other new players, since it seems like it could be confusing.

Original Post:

The Nightmare instruction for Return to Mirkwood reads:

Forced: At the beginning of the quest phase, the player who is guarding Gollum must either exhaust a hero he controls or resolve the "when revealed" effect of the topmost Tantrum card in the encounter discard pile.

According to the latest FAQ, when a card reads "must either" the player can choose between either of the forced effects, though he must completely fulfill the effect (the key word here is "either" in contrast with the ruling above it in the FAQ).

My question is: If there are no Tantrum cards in the discard pile, can I still choose the second effect and therefore avoid exhausting a hero and resolving a Tantrum card? That is the way I have been playing it. Otherwise, exhausting a hero is really nasty at the beginning of the quest and makes this nightmare even more "nighmare-ish". Just wanted to follow the ruling on this one, since the FAQ addresses it.

So the answer to his/her question is no, you cannot choose the second option because there are no tantrum cards in the discard pile, therefore you cannot resolve the "when revealed" effect on the top tantrum card of the discard pile. It could happen that neither effect could resolve, if there is no ready hero and no tantrum card in the discard pile, in which case the effect would do nothing. If both could resolve (i.e. there is a ready hero and a tantrum card in the discard) then the players can choose, because of the wording "must either". If it said "must ... or ..." you are not able to choose and must execute the first option unless it cannot be resolved, in which case you would resolve the second option.

The other card in question is only different because of the wording in the execution of the options since "all" can be zero.

This does bring up a question though. What if the wording was "each ally" and there are no allies, can you choose that option, or "each ready hero" and there are no ready heroes?

Yep your summation is spot on.
A really good modern example of this is the following location card:


It is worded "MUST EITHER" so you have a choice (as opposed to if it simpy said MUST X OR Y without "either") but you have to resolve one of the effects fully so if you do not have a player deck left you cannot reanimate the top card of it and must instead reveal an encounter card. You will always be able to reveal an encounter card however as this effect occurs during the staging step which is part of the quest phase and the encounter deck is always replenished if it runs out during the quest phase. If the card read the first player must reanimate the top card of his deck or reveal an encounter card then you would always reanimate the top card of your deck and would only instead reveal an encounter card if you are not able to reanimate the top card of your deck because you do not have a deck left.

Hmmmm your new question is a tough one. I don't think each can count as zero quite like all can...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1171544/mustor-and-quest-1b
The text on "The Ambush" Quest Card for Blood of Gondor received errata so that the language was corrected and players can actually choose between the two effects as intended. You must still fully resolve one of the effects however and it doesn't seem right to be able to resolve the first effect and turn "each" hidden card faceup if you do not have any.... and should therefore have to take a hidden card instead.
So I imagine in another situation if a card gave you a choice between dealing damage to each ally in play you could not choose this if there were no allies in play.

This is purely a guess however!

Also jeez this is an old post.. I am quite embarrassed to read the nastiness I took part in... very glad there are pretty much never threads like this one anymore

This quest, in nightmare mode and 100 % solo, is one if the hardest quest of the game.