Step 1

FFG has released a nifty diagram that shows you all the possible locations the phantom will be lets call it the hydra just to be cool cats. Memorize the hydra. Get good at 'seeing' the hydra every time someone puts a phantom on the table.

Step 2

Work out which arms of the hydra allow the phantom to take a shot. The points costing of Whisper and Echo means they will ALWAYS have to be shooting in order to justify their existence. This more than anything makes them predictable.

Step 3

Maneuver into or out of the hydras clutches as the board situation/tactics require.

Step 4

Victory. Or bust out the credit card and buy 2 falcons.

The problem with this is they get to decide the 'arm' usually AFTER you have moved, or at the least, after most of your ships have moved and they can work on the remaining 'arms' pending your own movement options.

I just honestly don't think a Phantom will be as scary as people make it out to be. Soontir had double focus and 4 evade at 3 range or a stealth device long before the phantom did and we have ALL had Soontir get 1-shot. If your opponent packs a Phantom, give it the juice during the joust if nothing else takes priority. every hit that lands brings you one step closer to taking out 50% of their points.

The problem with this is they get to decide the 'arm' usually AFTER you have moved, or at the least, after most of your ships have moved and they can work on the remaining 'arms' pending your own movement options.

I just honestly don't think a Phantom will be as scary as people make it out to be. Soontir had double focus and 4 evade at 3 range or a stealth device long before the phantom did and we have ALL had Soontir get 1-shot. If your opponent packs a Phantom, give it the juice during the joust if nothing else takes priority. every hit that lands brings you one step closer to taking out 50% of their points.

Yes but if you know which arms can shoot you can work out what their dial choice will be. If you 'force' them to an irrelevant arm then you are winning. Sooner or later they will 'YOLO' and then you shoot it full of holes.

The thing is about the Phantom is that its alot harder to fly than it is to counter since you only need to work out where it has to be to shoot where the Phantom has to work out where its target is going to be and where all the return fire will be coming from. If you know which ship the Phantom is hunting then you've pretty much done 75% of the guess work.

The problem with this is they get to decide the 'arm' usually AFTER you have moved, or at the least, after most of your ships have moved and they can work on the remaining 'arms' pending your own movement options.

I just honestly don't think a Phantom will be as scary as people make it out to be. Soontir had double focus and 4 evade at 3 range or a stealth device long before the phantom did and we have ALL had Soontir get 1-shot. If your opponent packs a Phantom, give it the juice during the joust if nothing else takes priority. every hit that lands brings you one step closer to taking out 50% of their points.

Yes but if you know which arms can shoot you can work out what their dial choice will be. If you 'force' them to an irrelevant arm then you are winning. Sooner or later they will 'YOLO' and then you shoot it full of holes.

The thing is about the Phantom is that its alot harder to fly than it is to counter since you only need to work out where it has to be to shoot where the Phantom has to work out where its target is going to be and where all the return fire will be coming from. If you know which ship the Phantom is hunting then you've pretty much done 75% of the guess work.

Not to say you're wrong, as The Hydra is a great way to think of it. But It's not as easy as you'd think. The two side arms of the hydra mirror eachother very well, and choosing which on they want to go down wrong can kill you. 4 Attack Dice is KILLER!

The problem with this is they get to decide the 'arm' usually AFTER you have moved, or at the least, after most of your ships have moved and they can work on the remaining 'arms' pending your own movement options.

I just honestly don't think a Phantom will be as scary as people make it out to be. Soontir had double focus and 4 evade at 3 range or a stealth device long before the phantom did and we have ALL had Soontir get 1-shot. If your opponent packs a Phantom, give it the juice during the joust if nothing else takes priority. every hit that lands brings you one step closer to taking out 50% of their points.

Yes but if you know which arms can shoot you can work out what their dial choice will be. If you 'force' them to an irrelevant arm then you are winning. Sooner or later they will 'YOLO' and then you shoot it full of holes.

The thing is about the Phantom is that its alot harder to fly than it is to counter since you only need to work out where it has to be to shoot where the Phantom has to work out where its target is going to be and where all the return fire will be coming from. If you know which ship the Phantom is hunting then you've pretty much done 75% of the guess work.

Your description of easy is backwards. I can predict where a non-Phantom will have trouble shooting far easier than you can predict where a Phantom will have a shot. Beyond that, if they keep that arm of the Hydra where it leaves your ships exposed, you're losing.

Not to say you're wrong, as The Hydra is a great way to think of it. But It's not as easy as you'd think. The two side arms of the hydra mirror eachother very well, and choosing which on they want to go down wrong can kill you. 4 Attack Dice is KILLER!

True. But then you have to consider this. IF the phantom is cloaked it cant shoot. If its decloaked during the combat round it will stay decloaked unless it can get a shot off (in the case of ACD). A Phantom in a subprime position will never want to be decloaked so if you force him into a sub par arm of the hydra the phantom needs to think really hard if they are going to attack. If you have a wounded ship its likely the Phantom will be hunting that ship so you can sort of dictate where the phantom will be by working out where they think that ship will be.

Its all a massive mind game but the penalty for getting it wrong is pretty hard on the Phantom. Just thank FFG for publishing the Hydra. It makes your life so much easier.

The problem with this is they get to decide the 'arm' usually AFTER you have moved, or at the least, after most of your ships have moved and they can work on the remaining 'arms' pending your own movement options.

I just honestly don't think a Phantom will be as scary as people make it out to be. Soontir had double focus and 4 evade at 3 range or a stealth device long before the phantom did and we have ALL had Soontir get 1-shot. If your opponent packs a Phantom, give it the juice during the joust if nothing else takes priority. every hit that lands brings you one step closer to taking out 50% of their points.

Yes but if you know which arms can shoot you can work out what their dial choice will be. If you 'force' them to an irrelevant arm then you are winning. Sooner or later they will 'YOLO' and then you shoot it full of holes.

The thing is about the Phantom is that its alot harder to fly than it is to counter since you only need to work out where it has to be to shoot where the Phantom has to work out where its target is going to be and where all the return fire will be coming from. If you know which ship the Phantom is hunting then you've pretty much done 75% of the guess work.

Your description of easy is backwards. I can predict where a non-Phantom will have trouble shooting far easier than you can predict where a Phantom will have a shot. Beyond that, if they keep that arm of the Hydra where it leaves your ships exposed, you're losing.

Not to say you're wrong, as The Hydra is a great way to think of it. But It's not as easy as you'd think. The two side arms of the hydra mirror eachother very well, and choosing which on they want to go down wrong can kill you. 4 Attack Dice is KILLER!

True. But then you have to consider this. IF the phantom is cloaked it cant shoot. If its decloaked during the combat round it will stay decloaked unless it can get a shot off (in the case of ACD). A Phantom in a subprime position will never want to be decloaked so if you force him into a sub par arm of the hydra the phantom needs to think really hard if they are going to attack. If you have a wounded ship its likely the Phantom will be hunting that ship so you can sort of dictate where the phantom will be by working out where they think that ship will be.

Its all a massive mind game but the penalty for getting it wrong is pretty hard on the Phantom. Just thank FFG for publishing the Hydra. It makes your life so much easier.

I fly Interceptors a lot and now I'm flying Phantoms a lot. The more you fly a ship, the better you can predict moves when other people fly it.

True. But then you have to consider this. IF the phantom is cloaked it cant shoot. If its decloaked during the combat round it will stay decloaked unless it can get a shot off (in the case of ACD). A Phantom in a subprime position will never want to be decloaked so if you force him into a sub par arm of the hydra the phantom needs to think really hard if they are going to attack. If you have a wounded ship its likely the Phantom will be hunting that ship so you can sort of dictate where the phantom will be by working out where they think that ship will be.

Its all a massive mind game but the penalty for getting it wrong is pretty hard on the Phantom. Just thank FFG for publishing the Hydra. It makes your life so much easier.

The Hydra as you call it, is not complete. It only shows one permutation left and right, there are two ways to bend the 2bank. Also, the Hydra does not take into account the impact of Advanced Sensors and Barrel Roll on top of the decloak. The hydra also doesnt show the effect of sliding the barrel roll, back corner to front corner to step back and front corner to back corner to step forward.

And once the ship has done all its decloaking and barrel rolling, you have 16 possible dial settings it can choose. I have decloaked, barrel rolled and then K turned. How do you predict that? I honestly think you are over generalizing the ease of predicing where the phantom will be.

True. But then you have to consider this. IF the phantom is cloaked it cant shoot. If its decloaked during the combat round it will stay decloaked unless it can get a shot off (in the case of ACD). A Phantom in a subprime position will never want to be decloaked so if you force him into a sub par arm of the hydra the phantom needs to think really hard if they are going to attack. If you have a wounded ship its likely the Phantom will be hunting that ship so you can sort of dictate where the phantom will be by working out where they think that ship will be.

Its all a massive mind game but the penalty for getting it wrong is pretty hard on the Phantom. Just thank FFG for publishing the Hydra. It makes your life so much easier.

The Hydra as you call it, is not complete. It only shows one permutation left and right, there are two ways to bend the 2bank. Also, the Hydra does not take into account the impact of Advanced Sensors and Barrel Roll on top of the decloak. The hydra also doesnt show the effect of sliding the barrel roll, back corner to front corner to step back and front corner to back corner to step forward.

And once the ship has done all its decloaking and barrel rolling, you have 16 possible dial settings it can choose. I have decloaked, barrel rolled and then K turned. How do you predict that? I honestly think you are over generalizing the ease of predicing where the phantom will be.

He is and isn't. He's saying that you have to think like a Phantom pilot, and get shots at their best locations, forcing them into spots where in order to attack they have to be attacked, or miss out on their free recloak. There will be a lot of mindgames involved with Phantoms. Fantastic epic mindgames. But the Hydra hasn't shown all its heads yet. mapping it will be tough. Either way, the term is awesome.

Le sigh. Do I really have to do all the work for you guys?

Deconstructing the Hydra

Lesson #1: Not all decloaks are created equal

When examining the decloak option you have to realize 2 things. The first being that not all possible phase states for the Phantom are meaningful i.e. all you need to do is work out which phase states are meaningful and react accordingly. If your opponent wants to take Whisper/Echo for a joy ride then it shouldn’t worry you.

Second, the 2 forward is statistically the most likely decloak move as its the easiest to line up assuming no other factors such as collisions. If collisions are a factor then one of the other 2 are likely with the one allowing the easiest shot being the most likely. Therefore any choice on the dial will be one that has the most compatibility.

By default the 2 forward move has the greatest compatibility since it can be slotted into all 3 decloak phases with minimal difficulty so it should be your starting prediction point. Then you move on to the 1 sharps. Which 1 sharp will give them firing arcs? Only 1 will be compatible with two or more decloak states. And so on and so forth.

Once you work out which of the heads are the most likely to provide a shot on your models you can disregard the rest.

EDIT: Will post more insights later.

Le sigh. Do I really have to do all the work for you guys?[/size]

Deconstructing the Hydra[/size]

Lesson #1: Not all decloaks are created equal[/size]

When examining the decloak option you have to realize 2 things. The first being that not all possible phase states for the Phantom are meaningful i.e. all you need to do is work out which phase states are meaningful and react accordingly. If your opponent wants to take Whisper/Echo for a joy ride then it shouldn’t worry you. [/size]

Second, the 2 forward is statistically the most likely decloak move as its the easiest to line up assuming no other factors such as collisions. If collisions are a factor then one of the other 2 are likely with the one allowing the easiest shot being the most likely. Therefore any choice on the dial will be one that has the most compatibility.[/size]

By default the 1 forward move has the greatest compatibility since it can be slotted into all 3 decloak phases with minimal difficulty so it should be your starting prediction point. Then you move on to the 1 sharps. Which 1 sharp will give them firing arcs? Only 1 will be compatible with two or more decloak states. And so on and so forth.[/size]

Once you work out which of the heads are the most likely to provide a shot on your models you can disregard the rest.[/size]

EDIT: Will post more insights later. [/size]

The 2 barrel and 1 turn is going to see a lot of use.

But any of the turns create unique positions. I can go on. Advanced sensors creates a ton more options with pre-and post turn barrel rolls.

And then you have Echo and his ungodly manuevers. 2 Bank right followed by a hard left is silly mean. Etc.

Go big.

2 bounty hunters with intelligence agent to see where your opponent is going and proximity mines to drop if the target is likely to cross it. The mine stays so it will limit movement options for him as well as for yourself but you are prepared for it.

And to round it off an OGP with APL and Navigator to get in the way as well.

I have yet to use the 2 forward decloak.

Also, Echo's decloaks CURVE. It is extremely hard to figure out where he will end up. Especially if he fits Advanced Sensors.

I have yet to use the 2 forward decloak.

Also, Echo's decloaks CURVE. It is extremely hard to figure out where he will end up. Especially if he fits Advanced Sensors.

Le sigh. Do I really have to do all the work for you guys?[/size]

Deconstructing the Hydra[/size]

Lesson #1: Not all decloaks are created equal[/size]

When examining the decloak option you have to realize 2 things. The first being that not all possible phase states for the Phantom are meaningful i.e. all you need to do is work out which phase states are meaningful and react accordingly. If your opponent wants to take Whisper/Echo for a joy ride then it shouldn’t worry you. [/size]

Second, the 2 forward is statistically the most likely decloak move as its the easiest to line up assuming no other factors such as collisions. If collisions are a factor then one of the other 2 are likely with the one allowing the easiest shot being the most likely. Therefore any choice on the dial will be one that has the most compatibility.[/size]

By default the 1 forward move has the greatest compatibility since it can be slotted into all 3 decloak phases with minimal difficulty so it should be your starting prediction point. Then you move on to the 1 sharps. Which 1 sharp will give them firing arcs? Only 1 will be compatible with two or more decloak states. And so on and so forth.[/size]

Once you work out which of the heads are the most likely to provide a shot on your models you can disregard the rest.[/size]

EDIT: Will post more insights later. [/size]

The Phantom doesn't have a 1 forward dude. And the barrel rolls will be used far more than the two forward, as it allows for better flanking. From there they can K-Turn to get behind you, turn at any of 3 distances, bank, etc.

The 2 barrel and 1 turn is going to see a lot of use.

But any of the turns create unique positions. I can go on. Advanced sensors creates a ton more options with pre-and post turn barrel rolls.

And then you have Echo and his ungodly manuevers. 2 Bank right followed by a hard left is silly mean. Etc.

Blergh proof reading > me. Fixed.

Anyway my point is that its the easiest to 'line up' spatially so it should always be considered as a potential move. 2 forward/left or right + 2 forward will be the most common aggressive move for Whisper coming into the fray. Its also a common mid/late furball move because it allows for easy pursuits. Also note that just because it should always be considered isnt the same as it will ALWAYS happen.

Also WRT to K-turns ... stressed phantom = dead phantom. Stress token means ACD is worthless and it cant decloak next turn to reposition making it essentially just a TIE fighter.

How does stress kill a Phantom? Decloak to change position, bank 2 to curve outside an arc, drop stress, attack, recloak.

Two stress tokens, now thats a problem.

Stress a Phantom before it can shoot and ACD is useless and it's easier than you think to drop a Flechette on him if you use Roark for instance, or have a few lock on from different angles and decoy one to the needed PS. A high PS astromech carrier could do it as well.

No ACD means no decloaking in the next round, means more predictable movement and it also means half the green dice have evaporated.

Stress kills PTL Interceptors (They can't activate it when stressed, or take actions at all for that matter. Same with Opportunist)

Ions neuter Phantoms (They can't decloak while Ioned, and therefore can't shoot. You don't lose much damage this way, as they're at 4 agility anyway.)

Stress a Phantom before it can shoot and ACD is useless and it's easier than you think to drop a Flechette on him if you use Roark for instance, or have a few lock on from different angles and decoy one to the needed PS. A high PS astromech carrier could do it as well.

No ACD means no decloaking in the next round, means more predictable movement and it also means half the green dice have evaporated.

Stress a Phantom before it can shoot and ACD is useless and it's easier than you think to drop a Flechette on him if you use Roark for instance, or have a few lock on from different angles and decoy one to the needed PS. A high PS astromech carrier could do it as well.

No ACD means no decloaking in the next round, means more predictable movement and it also means half the green dice have evaporated.

Yes, but this is much easier said then done. Whisper and Echo will always be PS9 and 8 respectively when I field them. There is not a lot in this game that will fire before PS9 and cause stress.

From the easiest to the most complicated.

Rebel Transport Jamming in epic

Luke/Wedge/Wes/Corran with VI and R3-A2

Han with VI and a Tactician in RB2

Roarked Flechette Torps

Roarking a ship crewed with a Tactician at RB2

I dont think there is another way to allocate stress to a high PS Phantom between decloaking and firing. Honestly, of all the options I posted, Wes with VI and R3-A2 is probably the one that you will see the most. Other than that? Roark and a flechette torped xwing/bwing/ywing? Maybe. You'd have to specifically prep for that. Unless it becomes the new thing to do just in case.

You forgot Roark and R3-A2 on anything.

Firesprays. That back arc played right devastates interceptors. Shuttles can hang back pretty well and counter Interceptors well with both the Doom Shuttle(as an undodgable crit is evil) and the Buzzsaw. That said, once they get behind you shuttle be prepared for pain.

A Saboteur in the second crew seat of that Buzzsaw shuttle can make those interceptors think twice about getting up close behind you. Then, you can still get a good hit in with Gunner and Fire Control on a ship in front of you.

Firesprays. That back arc played right devastates interceptors. Shuttles can hang back pretty well and counter Interceptors well with both the Doom Shuttle(as an undodgable crit is evil) and the Buzzsaw. That said, once they get behind you shuttle be prepared for pain.

A Saboteur in the second crew seat of that Buzzsaw shuttle can make those interceptors think twice about getting up close behind you. Then, you can still get a good hit in with Gunner and Fire Control on a ship in front of you.

While true, that's not going to be much of a deterent. Still better than getting shot at. Your best bet is to full stop and make them hit you, then try to move in a way they don't predict. But losing Interceptors with a shuttle is going to be a losing propostition no matter what you do.

You forgot Roark and R3-A2 on anything.

Or any of the ps 8's with VI or decoy/swarm tactics if facing Echo.

And that is assuming people will only ever run the named Phantoms and they will only ever be run with VI.

I keep hearing it's almost impossible to catch Echo in arc, why bother with VI?

Part of what makes Echo so hard to pin down is his flexibility. The decloak mechnics are very powerful. On a normal Phantom you either barrel roll 2 or advance 2. With Echo he uses the bank 2 template instead. So he can curve where he will be. You dont have to declare which way you will decloak on a dial, so its always subject to the information you have at the time you reveal your dial.

Barring this in mind, you want Echo to move after everyone else, so you can best choose which way to decloak. If you add an advanced sensors on that, you can decloak and barrel roll again before making your move.

Without VI, Echo is only PS6. Meaning he is moving with the likes of Garven, Dutch, Backstabber and Jendon. I would rather build to 99 points and spend a point to make sure I dont have initiative and move after everyone (with a few exceptions).

All it will accomplish is that people will get into a VI arms race for a while until a new ship, EPT or tactic hits the field.

There's something to be said for running something aggressive like outmaneuver or opportunist while decoying or ST'ing up when needed through the use of a Vader or Fel.