as the title goes, As an imperial player Im having an increasingly difficult time trying to deal with high agility targets with the ability to relocate themselves, either via the old tried and tested PTL Roll + Boost combo, or with the new cloak/decloa, and I'm simply out of ideas, apart from fielding my own Soontir / Echo / whatever and outbidding them for initiative

any solutions apart from switching to rebels or mirror matches?

Firesprays. That back arc played right devastates interceptors. Shuttles can hang back pretty well and counter Interceptors well with both the Doom Shuttle(as an undodgable crit is evil) and the Buzzsaw. That said, once they get behind you shuttle be prepared for pain.

Block them. I fly interceptors all the time. Once you're in close, especially if they're stressed like Soontir, it's easier to get in their way and deprive them off arc dodge actions.

Likewise, if you block one of a phantoms barrel roll directions, you force them to choose the other, fly right at you, or stay cloaked. If they set their dial to barrel roll left and bank right to face you, and you block the left BR, they are in trouble.

Blocking also works wonders. A blocked Interceptor at range one of another ship is a terrified interceptor.

Blocking also works wonders. A blocked Interceptor at range one of another ship is a terrified interceptor.

I find it extremely difficult to block phantoms, although it works for interceptors. Mainly because the phantoms can choose to decloak or not entirely based on the player's own choice upon activation of the ship, after the academy TIEs etc have taken up their positions.

Firesprays didnt work out, mainly because the TIEints can easily hide in their blind spots, especially if the TIEints are of higher PS. surprisingly, they do somewhat work against phantoms, but the shots dealt to the phantoms are generally of such low quality that the attack would miss anyway, gunner or no gunner

EDIT: There was this one thread where someone proved, with pictures, that a TIEint with a single boost action can permanently stay within the blind spots of a lower PS Firespray forever, regardless of what maneuver the Firespray will take.

I agree OMG + Vader works, but only as long as you can keep them within pewpew range of the OMG. which is..... maybe the 1st combat round only

Blocking also works wonders. A blocked Interceptor at range one of another ship is a terrified interceptor.

I find it extremely difficult to block phantoms, although it works for interceptors. Mainly because the phantoms can choose to decloak or not entirely based on the player's own choice upon activation of the ship, after the academy TIEs etc have taken up their positions.

Firesprays didnt work out, mainly because the TIEints can easily hide in their blind spots, especially if the TIEints are of higher PS. surprisingly, they do somewhat work against phantoms, but the shots dealt to the phantoms are generally of such low quality that the attack would miss anyway, gunner or no gunner

And honestly If the Interceptors are hiding in your blind spots you need to out-think them, as you're being outplayed on the dials. The blind spots on Firesprays are pretty easy to fill.

I question the quality of your firespray shots, as you should be able to get some damage through, especially with gunner token stripping. 4 agility has never been impossible to hit. Squints have been using it for AGES.

I tend to average 2 hits for 3 atk dice, and the shots are usually done at range 2-3 against a cloaked phantom with focus tokens

It's not so much the beginning of the game, but more of the later stages where both sides only have a few ships left, making it difficult to cover the Firespray's blind spots and / or attempt block + whack maneuvers

Blocking phantoms doesn't actually block them, it corrals them. If you are in one of their BR positions, they can't go that way, so you know where they're going. You can't guarantee a shot, but you can make sure that they don't have a shot if you don't.

I need to make an illustration of this tonight.

Use a higher PS Firespray. Boba with Navagator will help you get into arc after all the other ships have moved.

Fly in formation. It's much harder to dodge one BIG arc than a half-dozen regular ones.

Use a higher PS Firespray. Boba with Navagator will help you get into arc after all the other ships have moved.

problem is Carnor and Echo VI is PS8, soontir Turr VI and Whisper VI is PS9

Fly in formation. It's much harder to dodge one BIG arc than a half-dozen regular ones.

I don't buy this logic at all, the less overlap the more chance of having it in arc. That ian't to say formations can't work, but they're built to focus fire. Focus fire isn't necessarily the key to facing phantoms. I think they're partially built to force splitting of formations. A Phanto in a pincer is going to have a hard time arc dodging.

Use a higher PS Firespray. Boba with Navagator will help you get into arc after all the other ships have moved.

problem is Carnor and Echo VI is PS8, soontir Turr VI and Whisper VI is PS9

Fly in formation. It's much harder to dodge one BIG arc than a half-dozen regular ones.

I don't buy this logic at all, the less overlap the more chance of having it in arc. That ian't to say formations can't work, but they're built to focus fire. Focus fire isn't necessarily the key to facing phantoms. I think they're partially built to force splitting of formations. A Phanto in a pincer is going to have a hard time arc dodging.

there are more formations than just the focus-fire variety.

Vet instincts. PS 10. Add an engine upgrade and that rear arc can do one heck of a swing.

I flew a Fettigator in all my lists for almost 4 months. He definitely has game against the Phantoms. As Aminar say, VI + Navigator + EU and you have a Phantom busting matchine.

Fly in formation. It's much harder to dodge one BIG arc than a half-dozen regular ones.

I don't buy this logic at all, the less overlap the more chance of having it in arc. That ian't to say formations can't work, but they're built to focus fire. Focus fire isn't necessarily the key to facing phantoms. I think they're partially built to force splitting of formations. A Phanto in a pincer is going to have a hard time arc dodging.

there are more formations than just the focus-fire variety.

Fly in formation. It's much harder to dodge one BIG arc than a half-dozen regular ones.

I don't buy this logic at all, the less overlap the more chance of having it in arc. That ian't to say formations can't work, but they're built to focus fire. Focus fire isn't necessarily the key to facing phantoms. I think they're partially built to force splitting of formations. A Phanto in a pincer is going to have a hard time arc dodging.

there are more formations than just the focus-fire variety.

Not that can be maintained for long. It's not like you can reliably steer away from eachother and keep close to eachother.

Any multi-positional formation in which your ships trade roles on the move work.

A Braid-based flightpath, for instance. Or anything else where you can expand and contract simultaneously.

Fly in formation. It's much harder to dodge one BIG arc than a half-dozen regular ones.

I don't buy this logic at all, the less overlap the more chance of having it in arc. That ian't to say formations can't work, but they're built to focus fire. Focus fire isn't necessarily the key to facing phantoms. I think they're partially built to force splitting of formations. A Phanto in a pincer is going to have a hard time arc dodging.

there are more formations than just the focus-fire variety.

Not that can be maintained for long. It's not like you can reliably steer away from eachother and keep close to eachother.

Any multi-positional formation in which your ships trade roles on the move work.

A Braid-based flightpath, for instance. Or anything else where you can expand and contract simultaneously.

It's been tried and true up till this point, but it may lose its luster now. Maybe we'll see more weaving formations. I personally doubt it....

As you stated, a Vader Shuttle is probably the best suggestion I've come up with. With 0s and self bumping, you can either force the ship to avoid the shuttle arc, where you'll have another ship waiting to shoot it, or make them target the shuttle, which will only work for 1 or 2 rounds since the slow interceptor will have to fly passed or crash into it.

Though, Vader crew isn't as great against the shielded phantom. I bet a swarm works, haha. Lots of shots is a good choice.

Bona with VI, Engine, Gunner.

WAIT I KNOW: Rebel Captive in general. Cant take a free cloak action if you are stressed. Cant PTL against Rebel Captive either.

Rebel captive both works and doesn't. It can only be on one ship. That leaves the Phantom or Squint free to deal with the other ships while your fleet eats the ships with the captive. Only one ship per round gets stuck with stress.

If you at running a Kath/Boba with Rebel captive, in order for them to get the win, they'll likely have to take out the Firespray at some point.

If you take out their support craft while your opponent takes out yours, points wise it could be something like Echo vs Firespray + Rebel Captive. The captive might be enough to at least prevent Echo from cloaking with ACD or just the cloak for a few rounds, or give up shots to do so. Barrel roll alone isnt always enough for avoiding arcs.

If you at running a Kath/Boba with Rebel captive, in order for them to get the win, they'll likely have to take out the Firespray at some point.

If you take out their support craft while your opponent takes out yours, points wise it could be something like Echo vs Firespray + Rebel Captive. The captive might be enough to at least prevent Echo from cloaking with ACD or just the cloak for a few rounds, or give up shots to do so. Barrel roll alone isnt always enough for avoiding arcs.

Step 1

FFG has released a nifty diagram that shows you all the possible locations the phantom will be lets call it the hydra just to be cool cats. Memorize the hydra. Get good at 'seeing' the hydra every time someone puts a phantom on the table.

Step 2

Work out which arms of the hydra allow the phantom to take a shot. The points costing of Whisper and Echo means they will ALWAYS have to be shooting in order to justify their existence. This more than anything makes them predictable.

Step 3

Maneuver into or out of the hydras clutches as the board situation/tactics require.

Step 4

Victory. Or bust out the credit card and buy 2 falcons.

Step 1

FFG has released a nifty diagram that shows you all the possible locations the phantom will be lets call it the hydra just to be cool cats. Memorize the hydra. Get good at 'seeing' the hydra every time someone puts a phantom on the table.

Step 2

Work out which arms of the hydra allow the phantom to take a shot. The points costing of Whisper and Echo means they will ALWAYS have to be shooting in order to justify their existence. This more than anything makes them predictable.

Step 3

Maneuver into or out of the hydras clutches as the board situation/tactics require.

Step 4

Victory. Or bust out the credit card and buy 2 falcons.

The problem with this is they get to decide the 'arm' usually AFTER you have moved, or at the least, after most of your ships have moved and they can work on the remaining 'arms' pending your own movement options.

I just honestly don't think a Phantom will be as scary as people make it out to be. Soontir had double focus and 4 evade at 3 range or a stealth device long before the phantom did and we have ALL had Soontir get 1-shot. If your opponent packs a Phantom, give it the juice during the joust if nothing else takes priority. every hit that lands brings you one step closer to taking out 50% of their points.

I think another Phantom with an initiative bid is probably the best Imperial counter to Phantoms/Soontir..

Failing that, I'd suggest looking at the below (or any combination of):

1. Various PS9+ pilot builds with an initiative bid

2. Engine Bounty Hunters

3. Swarm blocking

4. Upgrade cards to limit effectiveness