In a way, it's like we now get to choose between two settings, and pick the one we like most. That is a solace we ought to keep in mind.

Why choose one over the other when you can mine from both?

Why choose one over the other when you can mine from both?

Common ground. It's easier to say "I'm using the EU" or "I'm using the New Canon" than explaining one's personal mixture.

But I suppose you have a point, at least when it comes to elements that can easily be transplanted from one version of the setting into the other without creating a conflict. Planets, species, maybe even characters, ship classes and weapons. I guess it depends on how the new canon looks like, and who we want to share these ideas with. When it comes to roleplaying, it stands to reason that everyone ought to be on the same page in terms of the setting, rather than risking potentially awkward OOC surprises and a "clash of universes" (this is the main drawback of how 40k does it: everyone has their own little idea of the setting).

At least, that's my perception in regards to possible issues.

I'm assuming there will be quite a lot of people who will have difficulties "making the switch", so to say, or who may even end up not buying into this retconned universe at all. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out in a few years. Though, even in a worst case scenario, the Expanded Universe will live on in the minds and memories of its fans, and it has grown enough to potentially supply us with material to read for many years to come. In a way, it's like we now get to choose between two settings, and pick the one we like most. That is a solace we ought to keep in mind.

I disagree with the bolded statement here; no one new to Star Wars past this point will want to care about the EU because: "why bother when it never really happened in the first place." Interest in it will gradually diminish over the next few years (as long as the movie is a success) until Disney can stop producing it. I give the EU a lifespan of approximately 5–10 years left.

I'm assuming there will be quite a lot of people who will have difficulties "making the switch", so to say, or who may even end up not buying into this retconned universe at all. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out in a few years. Though, even in a worst case scenario, the Expanded Universe will live on in the minds and memories of its fans, and it has grown enough to potentially supply us with material to read for many years to come. In a way, it's like we now get to choose between two settings, and pick the one we like most. That is a solace we ought to keep in mind.

I disagree with the bolded statement here; no one new to Star Wars past this point will want to care about the EU because: "why bother when it never really happened in the first place." Interest in it will gradually diminish over the next few years (as long as the movie is a success) until Disney can stop producing it. I give the EU a lifespan of approximately 5–10 years left.

I've gone back and looked at the original works that gave us stories like The Little Mermaid and Cinderella despite the Disney versions being widely accepted as the True Versions. If people are interested, they'll dig deeper.

Anakin's failure wasn't because he fell in love, it was because it became an obsession and he was in an Order that didn't prepare him for such things at all. Luke OTOH, grew up in a loving family and had attachments to others (friends) both growing up and as an adult. This was what made him stronger than the old Order Jedi.

The reason they didn't prepare him is because they knew it was the easiest way to corrupt a Jedi. Thus it was disallowed and no need to prepare someone for something they can't do in the first place. (Kinda the same line of thinking that goes into these school systems that think by teaching abstinence they don't have to teach sex-ed... and we all see how that works out) These dudes didn't make that rule just to have it, it's happened before and someone somewhere learned that lesson.

Obsession or not, it was used against him as the proverbial straw(s). In fact, the more I think about it, love was all his straws because his mother was the reason he went bat-shizzle on the raiders. That's why they said he was too old to train, that's why the take the younglings from the parents at such an early age, in the first place.

The quickest way to make someone lose their shizzle, is to threaten their kids/wife/husband/etc... emotional attachments aren't a good thing for people wielding that much power, especially when said power if fueled by said emotions.

I'm not saying jedi shouldn't be allowed to visit a cat house once and again and work the kinks out... I can completely see that. But to go and tempt fate, finds one on the loosing end, every time.

And yet, in the end, it was Anakin's love - brought out by Luke - that won the day...

Ah... the inevitable redemption. Couldn't he have done that when Luke was like a day old? That's kinda Christian logic that suggests that when all is said and done, the big "I'm sorry" at the end makes it all go okay.

There are umpteen million beings in this galaxy that might suggest otherwise.

I'm not trying to be debbie-downer here, but come on? He flat out murdered a whole school house full of kids (and that's just what we saw on screen). I adore Vader, probably my favorite character in the whole universe, but even I wouldn't be like.... "whelp, he did come around at the very end". I'm glad he did, and it fit the story, but I didn't forget everything he did to get to that point. So winning one day, vs' completely screwing up 20+ years worth of others... That wouldn't blind me to following the exact same path he did. Well, not the exact same, at least his ol' lady was outside the whole jedi ordeal... Nah, I'm gonna one up him by doing the exact same thing with an evil jedi assassin..... but she did say she was "sorry". No trial, no time served, no punishment at all for her crimes against humanity (whatever the star wars alien inclusive term would be).

Anakin wasn't driven to the Dark Side by love. He was driven by fear.

If not his love for his mom or Padmé, it would have been being passed over for Jedi Master. I mean, come on, Palpatine was pulling his strings and manipulating him from early on. He used Anakin's fear to turn him, in desperation, to the Dark Side.

Fear of loss was too much for him to bear. Fear led to anger, anger led to hate, and hate led to suffering.

BOOM. Yoda'd.

His fear for what was going to happen to his wife (love). That was the major point being made. Had he not had a wife, or the attachment, he wouldn't have fallen. That was proven time and again in his best friend (obi), being is serious life threatening situations and he, while emotionally involved, retained his cool. Even with Soka too. Anakin was never going to be a "living gospel" of the order, he did things his way with little self preservation, but the dude wasn't afraid for himself. Heck, in the book, it was his love that ever killed his wife while he was becoming Vader.

True, but not being able to train a ... 9 year old boy? Then their training system needs a serious overhaul. Anakin by that point could read and write, and the Jedi Order had several Padawans just as old as him. Putting him into one of those classes were the pupils help each other with their studies should be managable.

Or do i better NOT know what they teach these kids till that age?

It's not so much the age and him being a boy (of 9), it's all the life experiences he had leading up to it. They are not a controlled environment and thus it would be impossible to predict his reactions to certain stimuli. In this case, imagine he bumped into a group of slave traders, their slaves are all obviously being beaten (though none currently). If he just jumps up and kills them all, it's not allowed. They are defenseless. If they are actively beating someone, he can defend that person, but not after the fact.

That stood for everyone, being that there was no way to predict how they'd already been affected by life.

I would like to know how exactly do they expect people to get excited about "New Canon" when they can just say "whoops, nevermind" and rip the rug out from under everyone again in another 20 years.

I think I am done with the books. I would probably feel different if they went through all the canon and assigned what happened and what did not instead of just pretty much throwing it all in the toilet so they can pick and choose. It is pretty different with the different Marvel Universes. The COMIC is the main universe, so the movies are more like a retelling or reboot (kind of like the Ultimate Universe comics). However in Star Wars, the books and comic are support. Since they are invalidated it seems more like just crap now. I may follow the comics (less time consuming), but I may never read a Star Wars book again.

Honestly, I don't recall anyone official ever saying the books/comics/etc... (other people playing in the sandbox) was canon. I can't find a specific reference of GL ever saying the Bantha/Dark Horse stuff was "official" in regards to "canon". I see people on the Internets mention it here and there, but I see people on the Internets that argue that the sun revolves around The Earth as well....

I know GL has always been a stickler about being involved in what was released, but I always thought that was him protecting his brand more then anything. Making sure one of the stories didn't involved explicit sex or detailed disembowelment. Making sure that they didn't step on each others toes, etc... I got that last impression from Rodney (when he was doing SAGA), and WotC was doing the RPG. Occasionally, he would post about a delay in a book because GL was going over it. He never left the impression that he was in fear of things being rejected, just needing a few re-wordings that kinda things.

I started reading EU back with the Zhan novels (when they first came out), though I admit I never was exposed to most of the comic stuff (I just wasn't into comics for a while and then I was deployed in the military and hard to keep up with comics while that's going on), but I never took those as anything more then "possible" outcomes. I never read anything, and I think I was about 18 when all this EU really started, that I though was actually gonna be part of the "real universe". None of my friends thought that either. I'm not sure when/where the pendulum shifted and people started taking them as gospel, but it happened somewhere along the line.

In a way, it's like we now get to choose between two settings, and pick the one we like most. That is a solace we ought to keep in mind.

Why choose one over the other when you can mine from both?

I've found a great way to involve players in the universe in a way that makes them feel they truly matter is to treat neither as canon, instead choosing your ingress into the chronology of Star Wars as the beginning of an alternate universe. That way you can write cool, galaxy-spanning adventures without worrying about messing up the canon and confusing your players.

Hell, they did it in the games. Rebel Assault has you do the Deathstar trench run with Blue Squadron, while X-Wing: Alliance has you piloting through the Death Star II's superstructure in the Sabra instead of the Falcon.

I took me 3 or 4 seasons to start liking TCW, then...then they resurrect Darth Maul! Really!? Was that necessary??? Could not they just create a new adversary? Was this a lot of creative effort?

I was really displeased, with this, and with the fact that no major character dies or gets (permanently) captured ever! Ventress, Grievous, Cad Bane ...too many seasons to cover such a short time span? I guess I am just too old for these cartoon stuff.

I started disliking it more and more from early Season 3 on with it getting worse and worse each season. I think bringing Maul back was insane, and would it have been so hard to include one or two major space battle focused episodes or arcs per season in seasons three through five and what we got of six?

I disagree with the bolded statement here; no one new to Star Wars past this point will want to care about the EU because: "why bother when it never really happened in the first place." Interest in it will gradually diminish over the next few years (as long as the movie is a success) until Disney can stop producing it. I give the EU a lifespan of approximately 5–10 years left.

Actually, I agree here, and this is what I posted before. But that's why I said "its fans" rather than "the fans" - I was referring to the EU. I still believe the "Legends" classification is just an attempt to phase out the EU as gently as possible, but that still doesn't mean it has to be abandoned by those who care for it.

Yes, the EU may die out with its fans, but as long as said fans are around, the EU will live on. And the fans of the New Canon and JJs movies won't miss the Expanded Universe as they have their own new 'verse, so in a way it really doesn't matter.

Honestly, I don't recall anyone official ever saying the books/comics/etc... (other people playing in the sandbox) was canon.

Leland Chee from Lucasfilm's continuity department.

It just so happens that there were "levels" of canonicity, so when a conflict arose you had one source that would trump another, with the movies on top. Hence the term Expanded Universe, rather than Alternate Universe (which it is now). Back then, it was all part of the same setting, the greater thing, and that had its appeal, I think.

I've found a great way to involve players in the universe in a way that makes them feel they truly matter is to treat neither as canon, instead choosing your ingress into the chronology of Star Wars as the beginning of an alternate universe.

Depends on the players, though. I'd definitely recommend making sure everyone is on the same page about the background.

As I said earlier: common ground is important. It affects both the options and the knowledge available to the player characters, as well as the expectations of the players.

Hmmmm comparing a property like Lucas/Disney Star Wars to a game property like 40K? Doesn't really compute for me. Star wars is a much bigger and grander property and needs much more control of what is done with it. 40K doesn't even come close to Star Wars scale. They need to reign it in and keep it under their control. So cleaning up the EU and what is canon is a good start. Like it or not, personally I think its a good move. Get everything organized for going forward. Lucas was getting old and couldn't shepherd his IP forever.

The real, and most pressing question, is it now Han Solo who hops on one transparisteel leg?

https://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-wars-canon-started-earlier-fans-knew-213609745.html

Can someone explain this to me like I am a 5 year old?

OMG, where are your parents?!

Hmmmm comparing a property like Lucas/Disney Star Wars to a game property like 40K? Doesn't really compute for me. Star wars is a much bigger and grander property and needs much more control of what is done with it. 40K doesn't even come close to Star Wars scale. They need to reign it in and keep it under their control.

I'm not sure scale factors into it - it'll always remain a subjective experience unique to the individual fan either way.

I used to prefer SW's way of dealing with stuff specifically because it had full control over the setting, and offered a fairly consistent experience between the various sources. All the material was officially endorsed and categorised according to a crystal-clear canonicity scale, which indicated the priority of the respective material. Lucasfilm had an entire department specifically for the job of maintaining continuity in the EU - approving, modifying or merging problematic information. How much more control could you want, exactly?

If you really believe that this reset will prevent any and all contradictions for the future, let's talk again in 10 years.

How much more control could you want, exactly?

If you really believe that this reset will prevent any and all contradictions for the future, let's talk again in 10 years.

Well obviously they want all control since they did buy the IP. Maybe the multi-leveled canonicity wasn't something they want to deal with so they wanted to clean it up going forward, much to your chagrin and others. Or maybe they're an evil corporation just wanting to ruin an IP so beloved.

And the reset does not prevent future contradictions, but it will prevent them with anything previous to this reset.

Yet they would have had "all control" either way, just like Lucas had before.

Yes, maybe they just did not want to deal with multiple levels of canon. I'm only opposing the idea that keeping the EU as-is would have meant a "loss of control", or that this reset is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bantha beef.

Also, never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Depends on the players, though. I'd definitely recommend making sure everyone is on the same page about the background.

As I said earlier: common ground is important. It affects both the options and the knowledge available to the player characters, as well as the expectations of the players.

Yeah, definitely. Establishing the timeline with people is important. Everything pre-Empire Strikes Back is still canon, as far as I'm concerned (even though I hate the prequels). I made it clear to my players that everything after they started playing is fluid and changeable, because always in motion the future is~

"Why bother when it never really happened in the first place"

You are aware that none of this really happened in the first place right? Why would the legends (stories) of the SW universe be any less interesting then the legends and stories of our world (Star Wars literally being one of them)?

"Why bother when it never really happened in the first place"

You are aware that none of this really happened in the first place right? Why would the legends (stories) of the SW universe be any less interesting then the legends and stories of our world (Star Wars literally being one of them)?

What! Never happened! You must be mistaken, these are historical records of what has occurred (read in your best Mathazar voice).

On a serious note, a lot of people I know (who aren't gamers, geeks, fanatics or anything; just normal people) don't like reading "unofficial" media that doesn't jive with the rest of the story because then they just end up confused. Thus, they would not be interested in the EU anymore because it will seriously conflict with the movies.

Thus, they would not be interested in the EU anymore because it will seriously conflict with the movies.

It already did that before all this came down.

Not as much as you'd think, primarily because the Clone Wars weren't really explored in the EU. The few bumps that did exist have been glossed over by a combined effort of Lucasfilm's Continuity Database and the Clone Wars cartoon, which retroactively inserted some of the EU-originating Clone Wars tech that, due to their EU descriptions, would have been expected in the era (such as Z-95s) into the primary canon.

Still, it would have been a bit ... naive to assume that the new movies would have respected the Expanded Universe. It would have been nice, and easily doable, but given the IP's history, I would not have expected it. To me, the issue seems to be more that the new supplemental material (novels, games, etc) will now depict a different world as well, replacing the old one. Before, it would have been just the movies that may have contradicted the EU.

Not as much as you'd think, primarily because the Clone Wars weren't really explored in the EU. The few bumps that did exist have been glossed over by a combined effort of Lucasfilm's Continuity Database and the Clone Wars cartoon, which retroactively inserted some of the EU-originating Clone Wars tech that, due to their EU descriptions, would have been expected in the era (such as Z-95s) into the primary canon.

Still, it would have been a bit ... naive to assume that the new movies would have respected the Expanded Universe. It would have been nice, and easily doable, but given the IP's history, I would not have expected it. To me, the issue seems to be more that the new supplemental material (novels, games, etc) will now depict a different world as well, replacing the old one. Before, it would have been just the movies that may have contradicted the EU.

You didn't honestly expect anything that was written or created post Endor was going to be left in tact if the three later movies Lucas originally intended were made?

If the original canon system had been left in place, the planned/not-planned/planned/I-have-no-idea-what-you're-talking-about Sequel Trilogy (episodes VII - IX) that we Star Wars fans have been looking forward to for the last couple decades or so would have necessitated MASSIVE retcons (retcon = retroactive continuity; that is, something put in writing somewhere that explains discrepancies between an older work and a newer, "more canonical" work while maintaining that "both are still true"). I honestly don't think that would have been very pretty.

talking about 'retcons': http://clayyount.com/raecomics/raecomics/2011/7/18/hibernation-sickness.html

Similar to Lynata i wished that they would have left the Legends EU in place and continue with its own comics and books.