Hi all,

Rather than clutter up the forum with two threads for the new Download-content I thought I'd start a bit of a melting pot for poeple to post errors (and possible fixes until FFG get around to it) and interesting battesuit loadouts (as one of my players has already broken the system)

So to kick off;

Errors/Ommisions

Char Gen - No rules for generating wounds/fate points/appearence

Drone Controller - does not say how many drones you can control

Battlesuit creation - does not specify if there is a weight limit on a given battlesuit (and the strength of the suit just doesn't tie up with the suggested loadouts in terms of carry weight)

Battlesuit creation - does not tell you how twin-linking weapons effects weight and hardpoints

And now for some still (but rules-legal) loadouts from our groups resident rules-lawyer

XV-25 Stealth Suit with twin-linked smart missile system, drone controller with 10 markerlight drones, command and control node

XV88 with 2 twin linked rail guns, shield generator, drone controller with 4 shield drones

so add in your own creations

regards

Surak

In the absence of anything official I would absolutely house rule this to be a max of 2 drones per controller. That's the limit in the tabletop game, so it makes sense to me.

In the absence of anything official I would absolutely house rule this to be a max of 2 drones per controller. That's the limit in the tabletop game, so it makes sense to me.

Since when was that the limit for the tabletop game?

A single Firesight Marksman can control up to 9 sniper drones, any IC with a drone controller can join and control an entire Drone Squadron of up to 12 Drones ( and that is not counting 2 additional Drones that can come with the IC ).

Hmmmm, file has just been updated, to contain information on wounds and Fate Points.

Possibly other stuff as well, only checked those atm.

Does one have to redownload it?

Does one have to redownload it?

I'd be rather cross if they'd reached into my computer to change content on my harddrive without permission. Wouldn't you?

Evidently, Tau battlesuit pilots can do with a bit of training what it takes a Space Marine hypno-indoctrination and invasive surgery to do, the Tau can do it with armour several times as large as well. Interesting.

All in all, this book wasn't nearly as full of tauwank as I'd expected. It still isn't anything I'm going to use, mind, but it could have been much worse.

Tau lack a few sections of character creation, leaving them with a bit less skills/etc and customization options as other races. Were these just forgotten? Almost feels like there could be a page missing or there's a big fat picture hiding four paragraphs or something.

Tau need quite a bit of fate points, so hopefully one can roll 3-4!

I would suggest up to 4 drones for a dedicated drone-controller alt-class user, two otherwise.

There should be a loose limitation to what battlesuits can load weaponwise: I don't dislike the thought of a stealth suit with a plasma rifle or missile pod, but nothing's stopping you from equipping an HY-Pod right now. These limitations need not be too large: the weapons aren't too too far apart. I'd not see an issue, beyond "this isn't standard" equipping a fusion blade on a crisis suit, or a CIB on a stealthsuit. Chances are the weight capacity would work well here: Battlesuits are allowed to load up to (non-multiplied SB+TBs) in kg in weaponry, but their lifting/towing capacity is higher?

Weapon ranges are pretty bloody short in many cases. 18" weapons seem to vary once on this table between 40 and 60m, averaging half of the usual 24"=100m. This is rather common an issue to Rogue Trader as a whole, but still worth noting.

Battlesuits do not have unnatural strength, so your Riptide's fist is weaker than the average space marine. Toughness is also unchanged, as are wounds, so anything that ignores armor such as warp quality weapons will flat out just kill the pilot. Makes sense on a 15, less so on an XV-8.

Multispectrum's effect is really, really weak. It should at least let you see through said walls to target things or something if that's how you want to do it.

Velocity Tracker: Does movement include movement MODE? As in "It's A Flyer"? Or will you still be eating full penalties trying to aim at them?

Positional Relay: Uh... seems kinda... meh?

Vanguard Battlesuits: Where are they, and when can we get a picture? They're a bit big for hulking but too small for enormous, so perhaps they should have +15/-15 on to-hit and stealth though!

One last question: If these are being treated as ARMOR, does this mean that you can actually still use infantry weaponry? A stealth suit would certainly put a rail-rifle to most excellent use, especially if it comes from a sniper-drone character (pathfinder>drone controller >battlesuit pilot). Upgrading the suit to best quality also halves its weight as long as its 'just armor'.

Granted this would bring the risk of horrible, gamebreaking things like a riptide with two laspistols, but I'm sure players can be kept resasonable with a good GM.

First off I'd like to say well done FFG on getting an updated PDF out so fast.

Ok I've just been through the updated PDF and we do now have wounds and Fate points (no sign of appearence yet).

The problem is whilst wounds make sense (1d5+2+(2*TB)) Fate points don't.....You only get one......no rolling....just one.....seriously one.....for a character with a load of Fate-powered talents......ONE

I'm sure you get my point.

No sign of any limit to the number of drones you can have following you around either - my players will be happy as they already are looking at squadrons of 8 marker-drones and 2 shield drones as a standard

Also there have been no changes to the way battlesuits are equipped -

so no rules for working out Twin-linking weapon systems,

no restrictions on the size of weapons - so still nothing wrong with a stealth suit armed with a twin linked smart missile system, plasma rifle, early warning override, and a multispectrum sensor suite - you work out what that will do per turn in combat and tell me that its sensible

So come on people let see if we can't give FFG a hand here and close a few of those loops

Regards

Surak

First off I'd like to say well done FFG on getting an updated PDF out so fast.

(no sign of appearence yet).

The problem is whilst wounds make sense (1d5+2+(2*TB)) Fate points don't.....You only get one......no rolling....just one.....seriously one.....for a character with a load of Fate-powered talents......ONE

Ofcourse, if like me, you think Fate Points represent cinematic luck and the general 'over-the-top'-ness of the setting... not so much.

And I personally prefer the Emperor as off-stage and much talked about but little felt.

That said, who takes talents that cost fate points to use anyway? As mentioned elsewhere (on the DH2 beta threads maybe?), they are rarely if ever worth it, unless you have something like 6+ Fate Points anyway.

That re-roll is just the better option 99% of the time, IMAO.

No sign of any limit to the number of drones you can have following you around either - my players will be happy as they already are looking at squadrons of 8 marker-drones and 2 shield drones as a standard

Also, they may want more shield drone, because (unlike the TT), in RT you usually shoot at an individual rather than a group and shield drones do not appear to extend their shield over other characters, so they will need to use the Guardian Talent (with all those limitations) to take the shot.

I'd also have liked an availability for replacement drones, mind you.

so no rules for working out Twin-linking weapon systems,

If you run pure RAW, if a weapon doesn't come twin-linked, there's no way to make it so.

Other than, you know, puting a laser sight on a lasgun

no restrictions on the size of weapons - so still nothing wrong with a stealth suit armed with a twin linked smart missile system, plasma rifle, early warning override, and a multispectrum sensor suite - you work out what that will do per turn in combat and tell me that its sensible

I agree with your sentiment, but the example was poorly chosen I think.

That said, who takes talents that cost fate points to use anyway? As mentioned elsewhere (on the DH2 beta threads maybe?), they are rarely if ever worth it, unless you have something like 6+ Fate Points anyway.

There is a Fate Talent in the pdf that allows you to get a Talent from an ally or give one of your Talents to an ally until the end of the encounter. It is pretty-darn-awesome!

By the way, I also like this DLC a lot. My only problem with it is that Tau characters have bad Strength but average Agility. In my opinion, it should be the other way around.

Oh, and one more thing: Tau plasma rifle description vs. actual rules... Top KEK. I laughed so hard I almost fell off from my chair .

Tenebrae

Yeh so sue me I like my DH appearence tables

I agree Fate points should represent cinimatic effect of being a PC, so perhaps a max of 3 or 4 based on a dice roll

I agree with you on drone avaliablity, would have been handy

The Battlesuit weapon Issue

First off my rules lawyer has found a mini-max where you put the support systems on the pilot as wargear rather than using up a hardpoint (and I can't find anything in the rules or fluff to say that can't work), hence having more systems than hardpoints in my example - they aren't all on the 'suit

With regards to Twin-Linking, the only reason I brought it up is some of the example 'suits have Twin-linked weapons included in the example loadouts - so naturally my players want to know what weapons they can Twin-link and how it effects mounting them on a battlesuit (weight, what hardpoints, etc), also there is nothing in the rules stopping people mounting any weapon on any suit (i'm looking at Riptide weapons on a stealthsuit as a silly example) - there are a few fluff coments in the weapon description about should only be mounted on Riptides but thats not the same as a rule in the eyes of some players

Lets keep the discusion going

Regards

If they had simply added size restrictions on the various weapons, it would have helped a lot.

First off my rules lawyer has found a mini-max where you put the support systems on the pilot as wargear rather than using up a hardpoint (and I can't find anything in the rules or fluff to say that can't work), hence having more systems than hardpoints in my example - they aren't all on the 'suit

With regards to Twin-Linking, the only reason I brought it up is some of the example 'suits have Twin-linked weapons included in the example loadouts - so naturally my players want to know what weapons they can Twin-link and how it effects mounting them on a battlesuit (weight, what hardpoints, etc), also there is nothing in the rules stopping people mounting any weapon on any suit (i'm looking at Riptide weapons on a stealthsuit as a silly example) - there are a few fluff coments in the weapon description about should only be mounted on Riptides but thats not the same as a rule in the eyes of some players

All in all, my impression was that the .pdf was intended for Tau fans who already have the Codex and want to emulate it, rather than general purpose.

Actually some of the support systems as wargear is standard officer fare in the minis game.

Regular crisis teams, if they want a target-lock, they pay for it. Officer can do so to, but he could have it as an implant just as well.

Think it less "WTF you can put suit gear on a person" and more "older cheaper versions of this sensor system can be installed on hardpoints and linked up through the suit to you if you yourself don't have them yet". Like Multitrackers and BSFs used to be.

Sigh this is the kind of thing I can happily say does'nt happen in my group. So lets see:

The first point on gear vs battlesuit systems... I have to agree with Kiton, there is enough fluff saying the **** things can be implanted/mounted on a battlesuit without useing a Hardpoint so yeah I would let my players do that no question...untill someone trys to carry a positional rellay inside a suit cockpit...

After that things just get silly here. There is no way anyone is fielding a RIPTIDE weapon system on anything else save MAYBE a Broadside since those could concevibly carry the weight. AS for the weapons descriptions, "A heavy burst cannon is a truly enormous weapon" Umm that right there says its not going on a Stealth-suit since those are smaller then the **** weapn is. The Term "Fools errand" comes up in the Ion Accelerator description...thats not vauge or undecicive thats nice and clear. The Cyclic Ion Blaster though? yeah that could use a little more clarity though a 25kg weight there would tend to RAW deter anyone from trying to put that on a Stealthsuit.

Yes I get some of you have player's who have to have hard NO's in the rules saying they can't do something but really? Just say no. And if they whine mention the minor little fact that there is no way the earth cast, much less an etherial, is going to let someone they havnt even sent a Riptide to order riptide weapons. They just wouldn't do it as its a waste of resources and they would likely assume that the Rogue Trader just wants to study/sell it.

And really if you let them have a riptide in the firstplace, much less the weapons for one, as anything other then a one off situation for a mission you really should be looking at how you build a game anyway. I just can't see Riptides being something Rogue Traders would be getting their hands on since they are still semi-rare machines that the Tau don't want others playing around with. Not to mention they have a few wars going on where that tech might be slightly more usefull then with a single Tau off galavanting with a human.

In the absence of anything official I would absolutely house rule this to be a max of 2 drones per controller. That's the limit in the tabletop game, so it makes sense to me.

Since when was that the limit for the tabletop game?

A single Firesight Marksman can control up to 9 sniper drones, any IC with a drone controller can join and control an entire Drone Squadron of up to 12 Drones ( and that is not counting 2 additional Drones that can come with the IC ).

Since like, forever...

If a farsight marksman can do something different he is either the exception to the rule, or the rule was only recently changed with last years codex. Every other iteration since 3rd Ed states 2 per controller.

In the absence of anything official I would absolutely house rule this to be a max of 2 drones per controller. That's the limit in the tabletop game, so it makes sense to me.

Since when was that the limit for the tabletop game?

A single Firesight Marksman can control up to 9 sniper drones, any IC with a drone controller can join and control an entire Drone Squadron of up to 12 Drones ( and that is not counting 2 additional Drones that can come with the IC ).

Since like, forever...

If a farsight marksman can do something different he is either the exception to the rule, or the rule was only recently changed with last years codex. Every other iteration since 3rd Ed states 2 per controller.

Since like, not forever.

I have a copy of the previous codex ( 2005 ):

Drone Controller:

A drone controller acts as a hub for communications between the operator and a number of drones . A model with a drone controller must take one or two Gun Marker or Shield Drones, in any combination from the Wargear list.

Note, that the old codex does not limit the number of drones controlled by any given controller - it only limits how many drones can be taken as Wargear before any further drones have to come out of a different part of the 40K tabletop FO. There is nothing that prohibits a Commander from taking 2 drones as wargear, and then joining and controlling a Drone Squadron of 8 drones.

The new codex, gives further clarity, in that it states:

All Gun Drones, Marker Drones, and Sniper Drones in the same unit as a model with a drone controller.....

So if you have a Commander and 2 Bodyguards that is a total of 6 Drones controlled by 1 controller. In the case of Commander Farsight, who can take up to 7 Bodyguards, that is a total of 14 Drones that can be controlled by 1 Drone Controller ( not that I would put all of my eggs in one basket ).

I guess my statting the Tau ships was well-timed!

If anyone ever tries out any of those, please give me feedback:

http://40kroleplay.weebly.com/40k-roleplay-blog/modeling-the-korvattra

Alex

I guess my statting the Tau ships was well-timed!

If anyone ever tries out any of those, please give me feedback:

http://40kroleplay.weebly.com/40k-roleplay-blog/modeling-the-korvattra

Alex

The drones look somewhat fiddly at a glance.

More comments when I've actually used them, I suppose.

Having just picked this up today and made a brief scan of it, I can honestly say that I'm a bit disappointed in the battlesuit stats. I can understand FFG wanted to provide something very cool without breaking the balance of power, but I fear they went too far trying to fit them into the existing balance to accurately reflect their capabilities.

The main issue is that they are treated as armour, and there's enough high-pen weaponry floating around (not to mention stuff that can outfight ignore it) that the squishy little pilot doesn't stand a chance in any sort of really heavy fire-fight. Comparing them to the battlesuit profiles from Deathwatch, the ones in this book are just utterly outclassed. Sure, Deathwatch is a much higher power level than Rogue Trader might be, but there's certainly a few things they could have taken from their previous examples of battlesuits to make the ones in their latest PDF more appealing.

First off, unnatural characteristics for Strength and Toughness. Admittedly, the way UCs act in RT and DW make balancing them out a little trickier than, say, Black Crusade and Only War, as the bonuses can jump pretty quickly if you stuff a pilot into them with high base stats. Given the average Tau pilot isn't likely to have prioritised these however, it would certainly give them a little boost that would help a lot, and could easily be justified as part of the internal systems of the suit.

Another option is to treat them more like a half-and-half between armour and vehicles, a little like they did for Dreadnaughts. The player's statline still dictates most of the relevant abilities, with a few like Strength being boosted, but the armour has its own structural integrity rather than coming directly off the pilots wounds. There's already a table provided for critical effects on the suit, so it wouldn't be a difficult thing to amend, and there's the option for increasing the suits tactical/cruising speed beyond just the pilots Agility + size modifiers if you feel their ground speed was a little on the slow side. Doing that would alleviate much of the need for having Unnatural Toughness, but would still keep the battlesuit relevant in heavier combats.

There's not a lot I can add to the weapon loadout stuff since it's already been pretty heavily covered.

To be honest, the suits aren't terribly set-up, and with a little light tweaking I could see myself putting them in a game of Rogue Trader or possible Black Crusade/Only War (where adding Unnatural Characteristics would be a lot easier to do in terms of keeping power balance). I just think it's a shame FFG felt they had to low-ball them so hard.

Drone Controller:

A drone controller acts as a hub for communications between the operator and a number of drones . A model with a drone controller must take one or two Gun Marker or Shield Drones, in any combination from the Wargear list.

Note, that the old codex does not limit the number of drones controlled by any given controller - it only limits how many drones can be taken as Wargear before any further drones have to come out of a different part of the 40K tabletop FO. There is nothing that prohibits a Commander from taking 2 drones as wargear, and then joining and controlling a Drone Squadron of 8 drones.

That is very clearly not how the rule is intended, and deep down you know that. Now go to your room

Missing dodge +10 in the Fire warrior advances +20 is at rank 5 but nothing for +10, come on proof readers i found that in 5 mins.

Missing dodge +10 in the Fire warrior advances +20 is at rank 5 but nothing for +10, come on proof readers i found that in 5 mins.

It is in the Pathfinder Elite Advancement.

So... a skill available to the standard fire warrior requires a hop over to the Pathfinder tree? Bull. Horsehockey. Balderdash and nonsense. No other career tree is built that way, is it?