I havent had any trouble with a phantom using most normal lists i play. It does change your tactics and your opponent can mix things up. I have lost to the phantom as well, its a good ship but I think all wave 4 ships are equally game changing which I am glad to see. So i figured I'll post them and how they own the phantom.

6 Tie Swarm: Spread out, you dont need howlrunner keep your ties about 2 away from each other and there is literally no way for it to not be in arc. beat 2 lists using the phantom this way. 1 had 1 phantom and the other had 2. It was a tough game but the biggest problem with the phantom is that when decloaking it has to move so give it no were to go(also if a phantom bumps like it did ALOT that game, sad phantom). Also for the Imps the Fett has returned. He blows Phantoms out of the water.

2 Interceptor 3 tie build: Fel loves them phantoms Turr loves only 3 of them

Han Shoots first with C3PO, PTL, Nub, and Falcon title +2 ships: phantoms worst nightmare lol smoked him so bad. you evade then guess 0 and you are guaranteed 2 evasions your first shot against Han. then you can be guaranteed 1 every turn. Phantoms cant tank like a Falcon. the other 2 ships keep the rest of his list busy. or you could just spam Z95s and get falcon with a small swarm

B wings are in trouble, ywings are ok, but I was using rebel aces cards that have already been revealed in a game recently and the new a wing pilot killed 2 phantoms in a single game lol. the awing in my opinion is the phantom hunter, especially with vi and ptl or pred. get a high PS a wing, boost barrel roll and focus with your veteran instincts into range 1 and side shot that thing. If anything it strips tokens. Played another game tycho aced a phantom and a third game 2 greens with VI and PTL were able to bascially make it so he had to decloak in a certain direction or get rang 1 shots from 2 a wings. They didnt kill anything but they could help control the decloak barrel rolls and boosts making the phantom never have a shot unless i got a shot too...I mean its only fair

Sorry if this has been mentioned before as I got 3 pages in and decided to comment.

I think Stress is what will kill phantoms.

Think of Corran Horn with VI and R3-A2. Maybe engines too.

You get to see where the phantom is. You can get a shot any shot. You stress it before it attacks preventing it from cloaking. You then hit it with another stress so it can't cloak for another turn too!

Will be real easy to get it the next round if Corran didn't finish it off.

There are multiple reasons why Advanced Cloaking Device and Stygium Particle Accelerator are mods instead of the rules. They didn't want both effects. They really didn't like the idea of a Stealth Device on a Cloaked Phantom. The Cloaking rules already fill up 2 cards. Adding more effects would've made the Cloaking rules even more complicated.

I'm not saying those mods should be rolled into cloaking. I'm saying cloaking should first be introduced without mods. Then see how it plays. Then add mods later to change how it plays if it A) needs a fix or B) you want to change things up. There is no reason at all to release a mechanic if that mechanic never gets played how it's printed.

Another "problem" with your Idea is unless they release another ship with cloak, there is nothing else to release the Mods with and it hardly makes any sense to release "Phantom Only" mods (I think its the ACD thats Phantom Only) with another nonphantom cloaking ship. Or even doing an "Aces" Phantom so close to the actual Phantom, especially considering the relative obscurity of the ship and its pilots

But if the mechanic was able to stand on its own without mods, they wouldn't need to find an excuse to release the mods.

There are multiple reasons why Advanced Cloaking Device and Stygium Particle Accelerator are mods instead of the rules. They didn't want both effects. They really didn't like the idea of a Stealth Device on a Cloaked Phantom. The Cloaking rules already fill up 2 cards. Adding more effects would've made the Cloaking rules even more complicated.

I'm not saying those mods should be rolled into cloaking. I'm saying cloaking should first be introduced without mods. Then see how it plays. Then add mods later to change how it plays if it A) needs a fix or B) you want to change things up. There is no reason at all to release a mechanic if that mechanic never gets played how it's printed.

Another "problem" with your Idea is unless they release another ship with cloak, there is nothing else to release the Mods with and it hardly makes any sense to release "Phantom Only" mods (I think its the ACD thats Phantom Only) with another nonphantom cloaking ship. Or even doing an "Aces" Phantom so close to the actual Phantom, especially considering the relative obscurity of the ship and its pilots

But if the mechanic was able to stand on its own without mods, they wouldn't need to find an excuse to release the mods.

There are multiple reasons why Advanced Cloaking Device and Stygium Particle Accelerator are mods instead of the rules. They didn't want both effects. They really didn't like the idea of a Stealth Device on a Cloaked Phantom. The Cloaking rules already fill up 2 cards. Adding more effects would've made the Cloaking rules even more complicated.

I'm not saying those mods should be rolled into cloaking. I'm saying cloaking should first be introduced without mods. Then see how it plays. Then add mods later to change how it plays if it A) needs a fix or B) you want to change things up. There is no reason at all to release a mechanic if that mechanic never gets played how it's printed.

Another "problem" with your Idea is unless they release another ship with cloak, there is nothing else to release the Mods with and it hardly makes any sense to release "Phantom Only" mods (I think its the ACD thats Phantom Only) with another nonphantom cloaking ship. Or even doing an "Aces" Phantom so close to the actual Phantom, especially considering the relative obscurity of the ship and its pilots

But if the mechanic was able to stand on its own without mods, they wouldn't need to find an excuse to release the mods.

So? They wanted the mechanic to be adaptable. So they did it with mods. What a crime.

Not calling it criminal. I just don't like the way it was handled as I very clearly indicated from the outset.

Think of Corran Horn with VI and R3-A2. Maybe engines too.

Think Ten Numb with Marksmanship and Ion Cannons to keep it in one place. Might as well toss him a snickers bar because he's not going anywhere for a while.

There are multiple reasons why Advanced Cloaking Device and Stygium Particle Accelerator are mods instead of the rules. They didn't want both effects. They really didn't like the idea of a Stealth Device on a Cloaked Phantom. The Cloaking rules already fill up 2 cards. Adding more effects would've made the Cloaking rules even more complicated.

I'm not saying those mods should be rolled into cloaking. I'm saying cloaking should first be introduced without mods. Then see how it plays. Then add mods later to change how it plays if it A) needs a fix or B) you want to change things up. There is no reason at all to release a mechanic if that mechanic never gets played how it's printed.

Another "problem" with your Idea is unless they release another ship with cloak, there is nothing else to release the Mods with and it hardly makes any sense to release "Phantom Only" mods (I think its the ACD thats Phantom Only) with another nonphantom cloaking ship. Or even doing an "Aces" Phantom so close to the actual Phantom, especially considering the relative obscurity of the ship and its pilots

But if the mechanic was able to stand on its own without mods, they wouldn't need to find an excuse to release the mods.

So? They wanted the mechanic to be adaptable. So they did it with mods. What a crime.

Not calling it criminal. I just don't like the way it was handled as I very clearly indicated from the outset.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before as I got 3 pages in and decided to comment.

I think Stress is what will kill phantoms.

Think of Corran Horn with VI and R3-A2. Maybe engines too.

You get to see where the phantom is. You can get a shot any shot. You stress it before it attacks preventing it from cloaking. You then hit it with another stress so it can't cloak for another turn too!

Will be real easy to get it the next round if Corran didn't finish it off.

I've explained this further is my blog post.

http://boardgamegeek.com/blog/3506/x-wing-witness-the-firepower-of-a-fully-armed-an

There are multiple reasons why Advanced Cloaking Device and Stygium Particle Accelerator are mods instead of the rules. They didn't want both effects. They really didn't like the idea of a Stealth Device on a Cloaked Phantom. The Cloaking rules already fill up 2 cards. Adding more effects would've made the Cloaking rules even more complicated.

I'm not saying those mods should be rolled into cloaking. I'm saying cloaking should first be introduced without mods. Then see how it plays. Then add mods later to change how it plays if it A) needs a fix or B) you want to change things up. There is no reason at all to release a mechanic if that mechanic never gets played how it's printed.

Another "problem" with your Idea is unless they release another ship with cloak, there is nothing else to release the Mods with and it hardly makes any sense to release "Phantom Only" mods (I think its the ACD thats Phantom Only) with another nonphantom cloaking ship. Or even doing an "Aces" Phantom so close to the actual Phantom, especially considering the relative obscurity of the ship and its pilots

Well

But if the mechanic was able to stand on its own without mods, they wouldn't need to find an excuse to release the mods.

So? They wanted the mechanic to be adaptable. So they did it with mods. What a crime.

Not calling it criminal. I just don't like the way it was handled as I very clearly indicated from the outset.

It works well , and like others said the mods for it cater well to it.

What you suggest is release the thing with no mods. Only to later release them in another ship? So what do you want? Another cloaking ship? Or put the cards in a ships expansion where said ship like a tie advanced that doesn't even use it?

So if I want to get the cards im stuck buying a ship I don't want, or need for those cards? Then maybe another if I want two?

How do you even see that as an option I don't know.

Your the first and I believe only one to say that it shouldn't have the mods.

Those mods is what gives the Phantom its survivability. So you want a ship that you can hit easier? You want a ship that no one will use?

I can't understand what's the big deal. I love it, and it works great, and the Phanton is not unbeatable. Just have to fly different. Change up your strategy. Unless thar is, your that type who doesn't like change

This is one of the first threads I've seen where there's a suggestion that FFG should not package an upgrade card for exactly the ship it's made for. See the interceptor expansion and it's lack of PTL. Odd.

Sorry, but you don't have to like it. Noone forcing you to play with it

I'm well aware. But considering this thread was (at the time) 4 pages of opinions, I figured I was allowed to state mine as well. I'm sorry if it rankles you.

What you suggest is release the thing with no mods. Only to later release them in another ship? So what do you want? Another cloaking ship? Or put the cards in a ships expansion where said ship like a tie advanced that doesn't even use it?

What I'm suggesting is releasing the thing with no mods to see how the cloak mechanic functions outside of their comparatively small play testing group and see how it does. Then release mods later IF it needs it or if they'd like to spice things up. This is the pattern they have followed with all other mods. Is that really so inconceivable?

And no, it would be silly to release them with a ship that can't use them, I don't want that. They could:

1) Release another cloak ship

2) Release a new phantom repaint and include them with that

3) Release a phantom/other ship aces

4) Release a card-only booster sometime down the road

But as I've said several times, what I'd really prefer is cloak/decloak to work without mods at all.

So if I want to get the cards im stuck buying a ship I don't want, or need for those cards? Then maybe another if I want two?

How do you even see that as an option I don't know.

Is a well-established release pattern really so hard to see? You own 2 B-Wings but only have 1 copy of Advanced Sensors. How is this possible?! Oh right, because a useful upgrade for Bs comes only with the Lamda (until the E-Wing of course). Up until Imperial Aces came out, the only place to get PtL was the A-Wing which is largely considered a ship people don't want. See where I'm going with this now?

Your the first and I believe only one to say that it shouldn't have the mods.

Yeah I think that's right.

Those mods is what gives the Phantom its survivability. So you want a ship that you can hit easier? You want a ship that no one will use?

All I'm saying is I don't like a new mechanic introduced that relies on mods to make it function properly. If they made cloak/decloak a better mechanic on its own, then people could experiment with stealth devices, hull upgrades, shields, etc. It would give people a chance to run the ship the way they like to run it, not one of two ways it must be run to be useful.

It limits the ship and limits the player.

I can't understand what's the big deal. I love it, and it works great, and the Phanton is not unbeatable. Just have to fly different. Change up your strategy. Unless thar is, your that type who doesn't like change

So when you read in my initial post "I have no problem with the phantom itself..." you assumed that I simply MUST have a problem with the phantom? Or did you not read it and are just making wild assumptions about what I do and don't like?

If they wanted people Stealth Devicing or Hull Upgrading their Phantoms they could have easily given a pair of titles like Phantom Mk I and Phantom Mk II rather than Modifications. Almost like they wanted to restrict the Phantoms Modification slot due to the danger of giving either of the listed effects and boost. Or 5 Agility Phantoms. Or Phantoms with another X/E-Wing durability. It's quite clearly a purposeful limitation. The Machanic itself is both thematic and well thought out. All in all your complaints bother people because they're predicated on an assumption of what they wanted out the Phantom that doesn't gel with what we've seen from their design. I am incredibly glad Echo can't both Boost and recloak after attacking.

Well try playing with it without mods.

I can see people getting use out if the low pilot skill Phantoms, and trying things like sensor jammer.Rebel captive,advanced sensors and whatever else.

There is nothing stopping you from putting a Stealth Device or hull upgrade on one. Be my guest and let us know how it worked

They included the mods because they work well.

Actually that kind of makes me want to come up with a list with rebel captive in one.

I'm sure they play tested it quite a bit before they releases it. Not everything is going to be perfect and not everything is going to suit everyones taste, but so far the majority seem happy with it.

Your entitled to your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it.

They just released it. How long will it be before they are going to release another imperial aces pack? Especially when people are wanting other things fixed like the tie advanced. Why release another ship that may and probably need fixing. That doesn't seem very productive/professional.

I trust the designers at ffg. I love their boardgames, and this game is awesome. They've done an excellent job, and will continue to do so.

Ya I've read your other posts along with many others, so I don't remember everything I've read. Especially when it's 1am.

All I know is you don't like the mods and wish they didn't release them. Instead you would rather another tie advanced. Add another ship on the list of ships that need fixibg

Yuck, 28 pts for a 4 Atk X-wing. Though, 3 Shadows, Hull Upgrade, and FCS could be interesting. Yeah, the more I think about it, the mods are there to heavily encourage them to play the Cloaking game. A lot to play around with on the Phantom beyond Cloaking shenanigans.

All I'm saying is I wish cloak/decloak functioned without mods so players had options and choices. That isn't an assumption at all.

On the contrary, most of the replies against my opinion, are based on the assumption that the mechanic and the mods could only have functioned the way they do. I'm not suggesting they should've kept the mechanic exactly as it is only without the mods. I just wish the ship was playable and balanced without them.

All I'm saying is I wish cloak/decloak functioned without mods so players had options and choices.

They still do.

Try this list out

Shadow squadern pilot

Sensor jammer

Stealth device or hull upgrade

Rebel captive

Howlrunner

Swarm tactics

Academy pilot

Dark curse

Nightbeast.

With the rebel captive in the Phantom may deter some from targeting it first.

The sensor jammer can add to its survivability

Stealth device for the extra evade, or hull upgrade. Now it's a xwing on roids.

Plus you can take an evade.

If your opponent doesn't focus, or maybe Howlrunner makes him use it, with a evade and sensor jammer, that's 2 dmg you can prevent, plus you can still have 2 evade dice with 5 hp decloaked, or 3 evade dice to start with 4hp

Still sounds nasty to me

And a mini swarm as back up. This actually sounds like fun

I don't think Cloak is that bad by itself. A lot more balanced than Attack Wing's version. Without the mods, you have another glass cannon like the Interceptor.

All I'm saying is I wish cloak/decloak functioned without mods so players had options and choices. That isn't an assumption at all.

On the contrary, most of the replies against my opinion, are based on the assumption that the mechanic and the mods could only have functioned the way they do. I'm not suggesting they should've kept the mechanic exactly as it is only without the mods. I just wish the ship was playable and balanced without them.

Echo with boost and cloaking after he attacks would be DISGUSTING.

Even so, Adding Boost and Push might be a viable way to play Echo. Make him a hyper Interceptor. Approach cloaked, then sweep all the way around for a 5 dice attack from behind.

Phantoms with full mod access and either title we have right now would be terrifying. Especially advanced Cloak...

Try this list out

Shadow squadern pilot

Sensor jammer

Stealth device or hull upgrade

Rebel captive

Howlrunner

Swarm tactics

Academy pilot

Dark curse

Nightbeast.

With the rebel captive in the Phantom may deter some from targeting it first.

The sensor jammer can add to its survivability

Stealth device for the extra evade, or hull upgrade. Now it's a xwing on roids.

Plus you can take an evade.

If your opponent doesn't focus, or maybe Howlrunner makes him use it, with a evade and sensor jammer, that's 2 dmg you can prevent, plus you can still have 2 evade dice with 5 hp decloaked, or 3 evade dice to start with 4hp

Still sounds nasty to me

And a mini swarm as back up. This actually sounds like fun

Or the other idea for a six ship swarm:

Howlrunner

Sigma + HU + RecSpec

4x AP

run them all in a swarm together. When Howl dies, the Sigma can break off.

For everyone complaining about how "Overpowered" the Phantom is, all I can say is this:

"Now you know how Imperial players felt about the YT-1300."

Echo with boost and cloaking after he attacks would be DISGUSTING.

I don't understand why you think I'm suggesting they should be able to take 2 mods...

Would a large base ship with cloaking be excessively powerful? I'm thinking primarily about the Rogue Shadow here, should FFG ever choose to make it.

Echo with boost and cloaking after he attacks would be DISGUSTING.

I don't understand why you think I'm suggesting they should be able to take 2 mods...