I guess I should ask this in relation to what agility ship also. I've heard that stealth is better on a high agility ship and shield is better is agility 1 or 2. Now with new upgrades what are your thought. What about those who are math-wingers (meant as a complement).

Stealth Device IS best on ships that already have high agility. It can prevent 3-4 or more damage as opposed to the one damage of the other two, but there is no guarantee. It could do nothing for you. Some people think the guarantee of 1 damage is better than the chance for several, and I disagree. But, again, only on highly agile ships. Put it on a 1-2 agility ship and you'll lose it immediately.

Given the choice between Shield and Hull, I prefer Shield in most situations. The extra point is often worth guaranteeing you don't take a critical. If you're not concerned about the critical, then Hull is a cheaper alternative with the same primary benefit, guaranteed mitigation of 1 additional damage. Other than being short a point, there are a few times I would take Hull over Shield but they are on a ship-to-ship basis. Shield AND Hull is possible on interceptors, greatly increasing their longevity. However, I often find its better to fit in a fourth interceptor as opposed to 3 hyper-durable ones. That, and if I were to take 2 mods on an interceptor, they would probably be Stealth and Shield, but that's my preference. Chewbacca (pilot) treats criticals the same as shield damage, as he flips the cards immediately. Take a hull upgrade. Porkins's card ability can cause him to take direct to hull damage. Take a Hull Upgrade. E-wings are pricey and valuable, so if you're in the anti-stealth device crowd, take a Hull Upgrade because their base Hull is 2 and they are powerful ships. Otherwise, I prefer Shield Upgrade if I can afford the extra point.

In general, though, I rarely use modifications. I always drop a Stealth Device on Soontir and Howlrunner, usually a Hull Upgrade on Chewbacca, or occasionally a Shield Upgrade on a high PS X-wing or ship with R2-D2.

Or, if you're a super-aggressive player, take Engine Upgrade. Same cost as Shield Upgrade, but adds big mobility. But, that's for another topic.

Hoped this helped!

One is neither better than the other:

Shield upgrades cost the most, however....just saw the other post, no point in me continuing.

green dice dont like me so i pic Shield or Hull

Hull upgrade is the best in terms of reliability. As much as Stealth device gets better on High agility ships, so do the other two because in theory that hull means more. Shield upgrade is only worth it if you'lll be recovering shields most of the time. Crits are rare and getting them at just that point where he shield matters more is unlikely.

In the end a 4 Hull Interceptor lasts longer than a 4 Agility interceptor that drps an agility when hit most of the time. Hull is better on 2 hull ships because it stops One shot Proton Bombs. Hull is better on Chewie. In the end all 3 should really only be on high agility ships. And Hull upgrade is the best of them until you're using Stealth Device psychologically.

If I play Howlrunner with Stealth and give her an evade token do you attack her, or one of the six Focused ties surrounding her?

Tough choice.

great help,

Thanks

I never buy into the psychological arguments. In the heat of things, very few of my opponents remember which ship has a stealth device. They just seek the tokens. Mathematically, Hull is your best choice at 3 points. It is a guaranteed hit point. My advice is to swap out SD in every single build you might have placed it for a Hull Upgrade.

Just my two cents....

I never buy into the psychological arguments. In the heat of things, very few of my opponents remember which ship has a stealth device. They just seek the tokens. Mathematically, Hull is your best choice at 3 points. It is a guaranteed hit point. My advice is to swap out SD in every single build you might have placed it for a Hull Upgrade.

Just my two cents....

Y-Wing + Hull + R5 Astromech = durable

I never buy into the psychological arguments. In the heat of things, very few of my opponents remember which ship has a stealth device. They just seek the tokens. Mathematically, Hull is your best choice at 3 points. It is a guaranteed hit point. My advice is to swap out SD in every single build you might have placed it for a Hull Upgrade.

Just my two cents....

Then your opponents are pretty atypical strategy gamers. Most of us(or at least the players I actually worry about) are pretty obsessive about detail all match long. You have no idea how many times people have checked with me if Howlrunner has Stealth or not.

One should always prepare for the crowd they are facing.

I'd go hull for a wings to avoid any bomber shenanigans. Otherwise I'd go shield to avoid further critical hits landing on the hull. They hurt a whole lot.

Here's my take:

Stealth Device: Agility 3+

Shield: Agility 0-2

Hull: specific ability pilots like Chewbacca or Porkins, OR with Shield on an Interceptor with RG title.

I actually like Hull + Shield best on Interceptors over any other combination of Targetting Computer or Stealth Device. Additionally, I like Hull upgrade on an E-wing if I'm not using Engine upgrade because two hull scares me on such an expensive ship with shield bypasses like Proton Bombs floating around.

I would really only use Stealth on Howlrunner, Dark Curse, other assorted TIE Fighters, A-wings, and low PS interceptors.

Search the forums for other threads... but basically the math comes out that to hull > shield > stealth, regardless of agility. Something on the sorts of:

hull = 1dmg / 3 points = .33dmg/pt

stealth 3agi = .65dmg / 3 points = .22dmg/point

stealth 1agi = .6dmg / 3 points = .2dmg/point

shield = ~1.06dmg / 4 points = .27dmg/point

Many people seem to be under the thought process of "it took me 4 shots to lose my stealth device, so the stealth actually saved me 4 damage" when in reality, it's more like "i evaded all the damage on the first two shots regardless of whether I had a stealth device, it evaded a damage on the 3rd shot, and then it failed me on the 4th" ... which results in it blocking 1 damage, even though it took 4 shots to strip it.

Another thing that people seem to claim is "but the hull and shield upgrade could be useless... unless you're running around with 1hull, then it did nothing." The same claim could be made for the stealth device - if it blocks a damage, but you don't end up with 1 hull remaining at some point, then that damage mitigated was useless.

But there is a psychological effect that both a stealth and hull/shield upgrade present. But the better your opponent, the more educated he'll be, and the less he'll be affected by emotions. I don't know about you, but I design my lists to beat the opponents who know the game, not the ones that don't know what the heck something does.

Hull > Shield > Stealth.

Here is the Xwingdice.com math...

Assuming 3 dice + Focus for attacks... Defender has base 3 hull.

Stealth (4 dice + focus, 3 Hull)

73% of attacks will miss

27% will hit

0.38 expected damage per attack

8 attacks to kill not factoring loss of stealth device

7 (3.56 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 4th attack (determined by 73% miss stat).

6 (3.18 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 3rd attack.

6 (3.48 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 2nd attack.

5 (3.1 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 1st attack.

* (dmg is just the amount of expected damage X number of attacks, sort of give you an idea how skewed the # of attacks can be... 7 for instances averages to be a fair bit over, aka 6 attacks was just short of the kill)

Hull (3 dice + focus, 4 hull)

54% miss

45% hits

0.68 expected damage per attack

6 (4.08 dmg) attacks to kill

These numbers suggest pretty much the same thing everyone has been saying... Def dice matter. With 4 def dice the 73% odds of not taking damage does lean toward the stealth device but there is also a 27% of pissing those points away entirely.

Many people seem to be under the thought process of "it took me 4 shots to lose my stealth device, so the stealth actually saved me 4 damage" when in reality, it's more like "i evaded all the damage on the first two shots regardless of whether I had a stealth device, it evaded a damage on the 3rd shot, and then it failed me on the 4th" ... which results in it blocking 1 damage, even though it took 4 shots to strip it.

While I get your point its even harder to calculate. Cause while you could say the first 2 attacks were within the ability of a stealthless ship... you can't say for sure... maybe what "would' have been your extra stealth die was the 2nd evade.

Many people seem to be under the thought process of "it took me 4 shots to lose my stealth device, so the stealth actually saved me 4 damage" when in reality, it's more like "i evaded all the damage on the first two shots regardless of whether I had a stealth device, it evaded a damage on the 3rd shot, and then it failed me on the 4th" ... which results in it blocking 1 damage, even though it took 4 shots to strip it.

While I get your point its even harder to calculate. Cause while you could say the first 2 attacks were within the ability of a stealthless ship... you can't say for sure... maybe what "would' have been your extra stealth die was the 2nd evade.

Here is the Xwingdice.com math...

Assuming 3 dice + Focus for attacks... Defender has base 3 hull.

Stealth (4 dice + focus, 3 Hull)

73% of attacks will miss

27% will hit

0.38 expected damage per attack

8 attacks to kill not factoring loss of stealth device

7 (3.56 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 4th attack (determined by 73% miss stat).

6 (3.18 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 3rd attack.

6 (3.48 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 2nd attack.

5 (3.1 dmg) attacks to kill assuming stealth is lost on 1st attack.

* (dmg is just the amount of expected damage X number of attacks, sort of give you an idea how skewed the # of attacks can be... 7 for instances averages to be a fair bit over, aka 6 attacks was just short of the kill)

Hull (3 dice + focus, 4 hull)

54% miss

45% hits

0.68 expected damage per attack

6 (4.08 dmg) attacks to kill

These numbers suggest pretty much the same thing everyone has been saying... Def dice matter. With 4 def dice the 73% odds of not taking damage does lean toward the stealth device but there is also a 27% of pissing those points away entirely.

That's not the proper analysis. You're saying that it's a binary distribution of stealth avoids damage 73% of the time, and it does nothing 27% of the time.... When in reality (digs up previous math and tries to remember what it all means... I really need to get better at labeling...) Looking at 3 base agility (so 4 with stealth)... and while we're at it, lets say your opponent rolled 2 hits (most common result)...

So, each individual attack breaks down as follows:

(note, my math is not adding up to 100% because i'm trying to piece it all together and i'm failing but too lazy to redo it all)

9% chance the stealth device prevented a damage but you still took damage

23% chance the stealth device prevented a damage and you did not take damage

32% chance you rolled enough evades without the stealth device

42% chance the stealth device did nothing and you take damage

So, this means that 32% of the time, the stealth device did something. And 40% (this # is labeled so that's correct) of the time you keep the stealth device for another shot. And if we iterate that out, we get the following:

(Now the math is 100% correct because it's actually labeled)

The total damage mitigated converges after 18 shots to .494118 damage avoided.

This is assuming you do not have a focus for defense, and your opponent rolls 2 hits every time, and you have a base agility of 3.

If we play with some of those assumptions (one at a time) we can get better results. For example... If your opponent gets 3 hits every time, it converges after 7 shots at .418705 damage avoided...

And he rolls 3 hits and you have a focus for every defensive shot, it converges to .981735 after 22 attacks. If only 2 hits, it actually exceeds 1!!! to 1.30437... after 84 attacks. Note that it passes 1 at 9 attacks. Sadly, the probability of an interceptor living through 9 2hit attacks is relatively low... no clue on what the actual math is... but it probably doesn't support the theory that it can live through 9 attacks to actually get an ROI over the Hull. Not to mention it's unrealistic that you'd have a focus to every attack.

So, it ends up in the same boat as R2-F2... In certain circumstances, it can eventually do better than a focus, however, the ship in question will die before those circumstances are realized.

Many people seem to be under the thought process of "it took me 4 shots to lose my stealth device, so the stealth actually saved me 4 damage" when in reality, it's more like "i evaded all the damage on the first two shots regardless of whether I had a stealth device, it evaded a damage on the 3rd shot, and then it failed me on the 4th" ... which results in it blocking 1 damage, even though it took 4 shots to strip it.

While I get your point its even harder to calculate. Cause while you could say the first 2 attacks were within the ability of a stealthless ship... you can't say for sure... maybe what "would' have been your extra stealth die was the 2nd evade.

There's a little bit of gamblers fallacy here. By rolling more dice you icnrease the odds of dodging. You can't pick which dice is the Stealth dice and which isn't, just look at what the odds become.

I'll concede that for a moment... that it really doesn't matter what the individual 4th die is (though it is interesting to watch when you have 3 translucent, and then a 4th solid)... but if we're just looking at % to dodge...

Chance of rolling 0 evades

3agi = 24%

4agi = 15%

Difference = -9%

Chance of rolling at least 1 evade

3agi = 76%

4agi = 85%

Difference = 9%

Chance of rolling at least 2 evades

3agi = 32%

4agi = 48%

Difference = 16%

Chance of rolling at least 3 evades

3agi = 5%

4agi = 15%

Difference = 10%

Chance of rolling at least 4 evades

3agi = 0%

4agi = 2%

Difference = 2%

So, if you look at it, you're basically 10% more likely to roll the number of evades that you need pretty much across the board with 4 dice vs. 3 dice. So, by that logic, one could consider each attack that you have the stealth device active for, contributes ~.1dmg mitigated... Which is actually about in line with what the actual math says... Folks say it last 3-5 turns, math shows that it evades .41 damage...

Stealth Device always wins. It is best in the long run.