I know weapon balance doesn't need to be perfect, but I think the Vibro-axe seems a little strong for its base cost.

Not to mention the silliness that occur once you start adding mods.

With Brawn 3, you're looking at a base damage of 6(with pierce 2)

Now for a mere 1050 credits, you can add the Serrated and Monomolecular edge. Now you have a Crit rating of 1 and Vicious 4.

Seems like even moderately powerful opponents would be little threat if you managed to close with them and you were armed with a Vibro-axe with a few upgrades. You've then got beginner PCs punking nearly every enemy they come across instantly.

And if you've got 5000 credits to spend you can add the Superior quality for 1 extra Advantage, which all you need to trigger a crit(with +40 to the roll)

Weapons can always be sundered.

Its you. That isnt all that powerful. Vicious isnt all that relevant when fighting NPCs and an autofiring blaster rifle will do alot more damage.

"if you managed to close" is the key part of that. Why would even minions let someone with an axe charge them? Why wouldn't they back pedal? Use Bolas? Glop Grenades? Concussion Grenades? Jet Packs? Better still, send out an opponent bare handed with a better Cool score and Improved Stunning Blow and beat the vibro axe wielder senseless.

There are counters to every aspect of this game. Things only appear unbalanced when people only consider total Soak and Wounds in their determination of rating various weapons.

Now for a mere 1050 credits, you can add the Serrated and Monomolecular edge. Now you have a Crit rating of 1 and Vicious 4.

Whether or not you can add two 'edge' modifications to a weapon is questionable. You GM may or may not allow it. If there's a concern that it's too powerful, that's a good sign that perhaps it should not be allowed.

"if you managed to close" is the key part of that. Why would even minions let someone with an axe charge them?

Closing range is easy to do unless you're going from like Extreme to Engaged. 2 Maneuvers in the majority of situations, executed on your turn when nobody else can act to stop you. Bam.

The game could probably use an interrupt action but it lacks one currently, so.

Whether or not you can add two 'edge' modifications to a weapon is questionable.

Not sure how it's questionable. It's completely legal by the RAW, even if you don't like the RAW there.

Whether or not you can add two 'edge' modifications to a weapon is questionable.

Not sure how it's questionable. It's completely legal by the RAW, even if you don't like the RAW there.

The rules mention not being able to have two attachments that both use the under-barrel position (regardless of hard points). It could be that the same applies to using multiple barrel/edge/sight attachments too, and thus is a GM's call.

I think I would allow it and then have someone steal the 5,000+ credit gold plated vibro-axe as quickly as possible. It would also attract all sorts of attention in most situations.

"if you managed to close" is the key part of that. Why would even minions let someone with an axe charge them?

Closing range is easy to do unless you're going from like Extreme to Engaged. 2 Maneuvers in the majority of situations, executed on your turn when nobody else can act to stop you. Bam.

The game could probably use an interrupt action but it lacks one currently, so.

Whether or not you can add two 'edge' modifications to a weapon is questionable.

Not sure how it's questionable. It's completely legal by the RAW, even if you don't like the RAW there.

If you win initiative you close distance. One of the biggest counters that people seem to overlook is simply winning initiative. A high Cool then opens up Knockdowns, Ensnares, Concussion, retreating, etc. Winning initiative doesn't require house rules, or neutering items, or gutting the soak and armor rules either like so many feel the need to do.

Deploying multiple targets also presents a challenge for the axe wielder. Regardless of the weapon used or career chosen a GM has to craft their opposition to present a challenge to their players. I sometimes wonder how much imagination GMs are actually putting into that. Understanding how many target sets their group can engage in a given turn. How much damage does minion group X consistently cause and weigh that against player's Soak and Wound scores. etc. The game can't play itself. I read over and over people wanting to gut one rule or another and little thought put into what is actually availble to them to counter players with.

If you're talking about minions...minions don't win initiative, and it's reasonable for the PCs to give the Marauder the highest slot.

I know weapon balance doesn't need to be perfect, but I think the Vibro-axe seems a little strong for its base cost.

Not to mention the silliness that occur once you start adding mods.

With Brawn 3, you're looking at a base damage of 6(with pierce 2)

Yup. Why do you think Wookiee Maurauders with a Brawn of 5 like Vibro-Axes so much?

Now for a mere 1050 credits, you can add the Serrated and Monomolecular edge. Now you have a Crit rating of 1 and Vicious 4.

Yup. Add lots of ranks of the Lethal Blows talent, and you can get to +100 on your crit roll.

Seems like even moderately powerful opponents would be little threat if you managed to close with them and you were armed with a Vibro-axe with a few upgrades. You've then got beginner PCs punking nearly every enemy they come across instantly.

And if you've got 5000 credits to spend you can add the Superior quality for 1 extra Advantage, which all you need to trigger a crit(with +40 to the roll)

You're attacking one person at a time. A Hired Gun/Heavy with a Light Repeating blaster and a decent amount of skill is going to get enough auto-fire results that he'll take out four or five targets with a single pull of the trigger. And he does so from a relatively safe Long Range.

Meanwhile, you're taking out targets one at a time from a quite dangerous Engaged Range. And if your Hired Gun/Heavy buddy decides he needs to shoot into the group that you're engaged with, there's a 1/12 chance that he might roll a Despair, at which point at least one of those blasts will hit you and not the guys you're trying to kill. Oops.

Welcome to my world.

But don't dismiss Force Pikes. They don't do quite so much damage, but they give you the option of doing Stun Damage, which lets you take targets alive, and you can take them down much quicker because no one ever has a high Stun Threshold.

If you're talking about minions...minions don't win initiative, and it's reasonable for the PCs to give the Marauder the highest slot.

There is a blanket rule that says Minions never win initiative or can't be created by a GM with a decent Presence or skill ranks in Cool that would allow them to win using Minion rules for ranks? If the group doesn't have the highest initiative slot they don't go first.

No matter how awesome the vibroaxe is, you only get to make one* attack per round. Teemo made one for Lowrhhick and he ended up owning it after some nasty business at the palace. Sure, it's gruesome. But the wookiee gladiator demands blood, so I give it to him in buckets. Anyone have a towel?

* yep, I know there's a crit (76-80, Overpowered) that allows for a second attack. Boy do I. Those Yiyar punks didn't know what him 'em.

YOu get ONE swing with the thing.

I had one of my players get behind cover a group of bounty hunters were using and cleaved one in half. The other three switched to stun and downed him before he was able to take another action.

YOu get ONE swing with the thing.

I had one of my players get behind cover a group of bounty hunters were using and cleaved one in half. The other three switched to stun and downed him before he was able to take another action.

Why did they switch to stun? If they had planned on using stun, and had already been using stun, or if they recognized him as someone they needed to take alive then it makes sense. OTOH, there's the weird metagamey effect that 'tough' targets tend to drop faster to stun than to lethal damage. Feature or bug...?

Weapons can always be sundered.

Or get destroyed with two Triumphs. Trust me, I know.

Vibroaxe is powerful, but I still don't see anything that trumps a non-house-ruled Juryrigged Heavy Blaster Rifle (auto-fire activation reduced to 1 advantage).

I GM a wookie marauder PC with twin Ryyk blades with serrated edges. I try to make it challenging for him to get into melee --split opponents, longer ranges, tight corridors with his allies shooting past, etc. (he's been hit with a despair by his allies more than once). I really like the mayhem he causes in melee because its entertaining, and that's what his liberated wookie gladiator likes to do. Coincidentally, he recovered a vibro-ax from a fallen enemy and passed on it. Something about made by wookies, used by wookies.

Vibroaxe is powerful, but I still don't see anything that trumps a non-house-ruled Juryrigged Heavy Blaster Rifle (auto-fire activation reduced to 1 advantage).

That really is the platinum standard and why I don't fret over Lightsabers or Vibro-axes. Everything has a foil (no pun intended) in this game.

OTOH, there's the weird metagamey effect that 'tough' targets tend to drop faster to stun than to lethal damage. Feature or bug...?

I consider it a bug but it's an effective counter, and it usually makes sense for a lot of enemies to be using stun anyway - either to turn PCs in for a reward, or interrogate them.

OTOH, there's the weird metagamey effect that 'tough' targets tend to drop faster to stun than to lethal damage. Feature or bug...?

I consider it a bug but it's an effective counter, and it usually makes sense for a lot of enemies to be using stun anyway - either to turn PCs in for a reward, or interrogate them.

I consider it a bug too. I hate that the best way to kill someone is often to stun them and then switch over to lethal damage rather than to just shoot them with lethal force right from the start.

The HBR really is more game breaking than the Vibro-Axe. My Assassin/Merc. Soldier has a heavily modified one with an augmented spin barrel and superior customization giving it a base damage of 13, pierce 2. Last session I rolled six advantage good for three auto-fires on a successful hit and dealt 48 points of damage. No Vibro-Axe is coming close to that. I shudder to think what would happen if I did buy into a tree with jury-rigged. Luckily I'm a bad enough roller that I only hit about 70% of the time LOL.

Whether or not you can add two 'edge' modifications to a weapon is questionable.

Not sure how it's questionable. It's completely legal by the RAW, even if you don't like the RAW there.

This one pops up a lot. The rules also mention an ancient and most arcane idea referred to mystically as "common sense"...A serrated edge can be really sharp imo, which is really all mono molecular edges are. I see allowing both on one knife as completely reasonable. Dunno if anyone has ever used an electric carving knife but it's essentially a really sharp serrated vibro knife.

OTOH, there's the weird metagamey effect that 'tough' targets tend to drop faster to stun than to lethal damage. Feature or bug...?

I consider it a bug but it's an effective counter, and it usually makes sense for a lot of enemies to be using stun anyway - either to turn PCs in for a reward, or interrogate them.

I consider it a bug too. I hate that the best way to kill someone is often to stun them and then switch over to lethal damage rather than to just shoot them with lethal force right from the start.

Soak (both Brawn and armor) applies to stun damage though, right?

OTOH, there's the weird metagamey effect that 'tough' targets tend to drop faster to stun than to lethal damage. Feature or bug...?

I consider it a bug but it's an effective counter, and it usually makes sense for a lot of enemies to be using stun anyway - either to turn PCs in for a reward, or interrogate them.

I consider it a bug too. I hate that the best way to kill someone is often to stun them and then switch over to lethal damage rather than to just shoot them with lethal force right from the start.

Soak (both Brawn and armor) applies to stun damage though, right?

Depends on the type of Stun. IIRC, if it's passive stun damage you get soak but if it's active stun you don't get soak. So, things like Pressure Point and Stun Gauntlets can ignore soak. Gotta love punching out a Rancor...

I believe the game designers didn't see an issue. They probably thought that with soak and the ability to regain strain with advantages during combat as a balancing feature. A high WT / low ST character has some options. They can recover strain with advantages instead of buying up crits and giving boost dice. They can also jump into a spec tree with grit and raise their ST. This is just one more thing that is trying to having players make balanced characters.