It rests at George's feet, and would have never happened if he tried to tell a story meant for the movies fanbase.

It rests at his feet yes. But what the fan base wanted and George's opinion of the EU had nothing to do with it.

So because someone else told a story first, it should take precedence over the creator's own vision? That's silly, especially since the EU is a mixture of good and terrible. Add in the fact that Lucas constantly changed mind over the years.

The issues with the prequels is that Lucas isn't a good director (or at least lost his director skills over the years). And that there was no one there to tell him no. The prequels are 100% pure Lucas, with no one there to disagree with his choices.

I don't care whether or not the prequels followed the EU, the EU wasn't Lucas' creation so I don't feel like his story should be boxed in by the writings of many others over the course of 20 years.

But I don't think he approached the prequels with the respect and care he should have. When he made episode IV, he never could have predicted the fanatical worship that trilogy would generate. As a fan of movies, music, and art in general (even if I'm not much of an artist myself), I can only imagine that would be an incredibly humbling thing. But it wasn't. Or maybe it was at first, but sometime within those 20 years it all changed and went straight to his head.

But it doesn't even seem like even he re-watched the original trilogy before he wrote the prequels, much less care what the fans would think of it.

Here's an example, in RotJ, Luke asks Leia what she remembers of her mother. Her response is something along the lines of "she died when I was very young. She was very beautiful, but sad."

So wait, a minutes old baby not only remembers her mother but can somehow tell she is both beautiful and sad through the throes of the agony of child birth?! That's a very intuitive minutes old baby!

The fact of the matter is the prequels in many instances DIRECTLY contradicted the original trilogy. If he had any respect left for his OWN art, he wouldn't have done that. If he had any respect for his fans and how personal his art had become for them, he wouldn't have done it.

He clearly approached the prequels with a "If I build it, they will come" mentality and clearly didn't put much effort into them. His utter lack of respect towards something that had become far greater than he ever imagined shows only his complete lack of character and a sell-out as an "artist."

So because someone else told a story first, it should take precedence over the creator's own vision? That's silly, especially since the EU is a mixture of good and terrible. Add in the fact that Lucas constantly changed mind over the years.

The issues with the prequels is that Lucas isn't a good director (or at least lost his director skills over the years). And that there was no one there to tell him no. The prequels are 100% pure Lucas, with no one there to disagree with his choices.

Not someone else. Someone else Lucas's company, and thus Lucas, authorized to do the writing.

Someone else Lucas's company, and thus Lucas, authorized to do the writing.

With the understanding that what they wrote didn't count as far as any movies or TV shows that George was going to make.

There was never a point in which George felt he had to account for what happened in the EU, and he made this quite clear pretty much anytime he was asked about it. The fact that George could completely disregard everything in the EU was part of the deal the writers accepted when they wrote those stories.

You can say he should of cared all you want, but that's opinion simply doesn't matter if George disagreed since his opinion is the only one that matters really, because he owned Star Wars and could do what ever he wanted to with it.

Someone else Lucas's company, and thus Lucas, authorized to do the writing.

With the understanding that what they wrote didn't count as far as any movies or TV shows that George was going to make.

There was never a point in which George felt he had to account for what happened in the EU, and he made this quite clear pretty much anytime he was asked about it. The fact that George could completely disregard everything in the EU was part of the deal the writers accepted when they wrote those stories.

You can say he should of cared all you want, but that's opinion simply doesn't matter if George disagreed since his opinion is the only one that matters really, because he owned Star Wars and could do what ever he wanted to with it.

If he had cared odds are the prequals would have been better, he'd still own Star Wars, and Star Wars would have been awesome. Which is basically why I say Artists don't own they're work. They should make money off of it. And own the rights to what they make. But there comes a point on the success meter where you have to stop making art for simply yourself, and start making it to the people that love it.

He acted out of Ego. He paid the price with his credibility.

Umm, Lucas sold his stuff (seriously he sold ALL of it, LFL, ILM, Skywalker Sound) because he wanted to retire and he wanted to leave his companies and properties in a company he trusted. He didn't have to do that, as most of what he sold was still profitable.

And I will have to disagree with your opinion on storytelling. If a story was always beholden to it's fans, some very good stories wouldn't have happened. This is a big issue with modern comics, as the status quo is not allowed to truly change for long.

Umm, Lucas sold his stuff (seriously he sold ALL of it, LFL, ILM, Skywalker Sound) because he wanted to retire and he wanted to leave his companies and properties in a company he trusted. He didn't have to do that, as most of what he sold was still profitable.

And I will have to disagree with your opinion on storytelling. If a story was always beholden to it's fans, some very good stories wouldn't have happened. This is a big issue with modern comics, as the status quo is not allowed to truly change for long.

Comics, and the issues with the EU, stem from long term storytelling being a bad plan. Not from being beholden to the fanbase. And what I mean, is that if he hadn't lost his credibility, if he'd made the prequals good, Star Wars would have been a household name. George Lucas would be a respected director still. It would be amazing. But he didn't. He made Star Wars for him, and in the end, it nearly destroyed Star Wars. Yes, the toys and games still made money, but they were quality games with good storytelling for the most part. Even now, we're all terrified for Star Wars. IF Abrams screws this up Star Wars will become (/Continue to be...)another soulles Cash Cow Property. Fortunatly, he seems to be in the right place. I love what he's done in the past. Fringe was fantastic. And the new Trek movies, Lens Flare aside, are a great look at just how fragile Roddenbarry's peaceful utopian Star Trek really would be.

It's a lot like pre and post bankruptcy Marvel.

Here's an example, in RotJ, Luke asks Leia what she remembers of her mother. Her response is something along the lines of "she died when I was very young. She was very beautiful, but sad."

So wait, a minutes old baby not only remembers her mother but can somehow tell she is both beautiful and sad through the throes of the agony of child birth?! That's a very intuitive minutes old baby!

The fact of the matter is the prequels in many instances DIRECTLY contradicted the original trilogy...

Not to mention how lazy and just gross it is that their mother died of a goddamn "broken heart" in the first place...

I have to assume Lucas was blind drunk for the entire prequel trilogy.

If I wanted to read about non-stop prequel/lucas bashing, I'd go to imdb.com.

Seriously some of these comments are just silly. I know some people don't like the prequels, or even hate them, but to say things like Lucas didn't care what he did or didn't put any effort in them, etc, is just wrong.

The other thing that's completley bogus is that somehow the prequels "killed" star wars. Even though all 3 made a boat load of money, the toys continue to be top sellers YEARS after the movies came out (name another commodity that can say that), and of course the popularity of the clone wars show, which would not have been made without the prequels.

There's a whole new generation of young fans (and some older fans) who got into star wars because of the prequels and clone wars show, meaning star wars is FAR from dead.

Let's bring this back to the ships... Will FFG still be promoting the same game in 2016 when we expect they would produce new EP. 7 ships? And what would the stats be? Wouldn't you think that after a couple more waves the Meta is going to change drastically and possibly have broke the game?

Sorry to be posing downer questions, but I'm worried we are going to have 4/4/1/4 and 5/1/4/4 basic ships soon and I'm just saying out loud that newer ship will have to have major, possibly game breaking, stat increases. 30 year on ships will need to be better and thus FFG will need to reflect this if they are going to keep this game as it is.

if he'd made the prequals good, Star Wars would have been a household name.

In what universe is Star Wars not a household name? Because it isn't this one. The prequels for all their problems sold a cubic crap load of tickets and made tons and tons of money. They were by every objective measure successful movies.

Even now, we're all terrified for Star Wars.

That is at least in part due to the hate so many feel to anything with JJ's name on it. That and the fact that the hardcore fanbase will never be happy with anything anyone does. Frankly there's no reason for JJ to even try to make a movie to please them, because that's already a lost cause.

The hardcore Trekies hate JJ Trek with a holly passion, I don't expect to see anything different with the new Star Wars movies. They'll make a stupid amount of money but the hard core will hate them and demand that JJ be burned at the stake for what he did to their idea of what Star Wars should be.

Anyone who is 'terrified' about what will happen with JJ's Star Wars... Well those people will hate it no matter what he does, because they've already made up their minds about it. Those people, quite frankly don't matter in the least, because nothing you do will make them happy, so no reason to bother trying.

I'm just saying out loud that newer ship will have to have major, possibly game breaking, stat increases.

FFG had maintained the balance pretty well though 4 waves now. I don't see that changing, and new ships being broken.

Let's bring this back to the ships... Will FFG still be promoting the same game in 2016 when we expect they would produce new EP. 7 ships? And what would the stats be? Wouldn't you think that after a couple more waves the Meta is going to change drastically and possibly have broke the game?

Sorry to be posing downer questions, but I'm worried we are going to have 4/4/1/4 and 5/1/4/4 basic ships soon and I'm just saying out loud that newer ship will have to have major, possibly game breaking, stat increases. 30 year on ships will need to be better and thus FFG will need to reflect this if they are going to keep this game as it is.

A 5/5/5/5 ships wouldn't be broken simply because it can't take the beating 4 X-Wings can give before it goes down, and it would cost well over 70 points.

Beyond that, Stats aren't always the best way to reflect upgrades in a future as advanced as Star Wars.

I mean, the Y-Wing and Z-95 are pretty ancient and they hold their own in this game just fine.

Want to know hopw many teenagers I work with have never seen a sngle Star Wars movie?

Currently 3/4ths of them haven't.

When I was a in elementary school everybody my age had seen them, and this was a decade after Jedi hit.

A decade after Sith, not so much.

if he'd made the prequals good, Star Wars would have been a household name.

In what universe is Star Wars not a household name? Because it isn't this one. The prequels for all their problems sold a cubic crap load of tickets and made tons and tons of money. They were by every objective measure successful movies.

Even now, we're all terrified for Star Wars.

That is at least in part due to the hate so many feel to anything with JJ's name on it. That and the fact that the hardcore fanbase will never be happy with anything anyone does. Frankly there's no reason for JJ to even try to make a movie to please them, because that's already a lost cause.The hardcore Trekies hate JJ Trek with a holly passion, I don't expect to see anything different with the new Star Wars movies. They'll make a stupid amount of money but the hard core will hate them and demand that JJ be burned at the stake for what he did to their idea of what Star Wars should be.Anyone who is 'terrified' about what will happen with JJ's Star Wars... Well those people will hate it no matter what he does, because they've already made up their minds about it. Those people, quite frankly don't matter in the least, because nothing you do will make them happy, so no reason to bother trying.

Which is all hilarious, because have you seen the absolute steaming garbage fanfic videos ultra fans make? When they're doing parodies they're fine (or at least vaguely watchable), but when they make their own serious stuff... Man, I though Lucas defecated on the name.

Fanboys are fanboys. The best thing any creative person can do is ignore them entirely.

I still think it's funny that most people upset about the EU hate the prequels, since they're better written than most of the EU.

if he'd made the prequals good, Star Wars would have been a household name.

In what universe is Star Wars not a household name? Because it isn't this one. The prequels for all their problems sold a cubic crap load of tickets and made tons and tons of money. They were by every objective measure successful movies.

Even now, we're all terrified for Star Wars.

That is at least in part due to the hate so many feel to anything with JJ's name on it. That and the fact that the hardcore fanbase will never be happy with anything anyone does. Frankly there's no reason for JJ to even try to make a movie to please them, because that's already a lost cause.The hardcore Trekies hate JJ Trek with a holly passion, I don't expect to see anything different with the new Star Wars movies. They'll make a stupid amount of money but the hard core will hate them and demand that JJ be burned at the stake for what he did to their idea of what Star Wars should be.Anyone who is 'terrified' about what will happen with JJ's Star Wars... Well those people will hate it no matter what he does, because they've already made up their minds about it. Those people, quite frankly don't matter in the least, because nothing you do will make them happy, so no reason to bother trying.

Which is all hilarious, because have you seen the absolute steaming garbage fanfic videos ultra fans make? When they're doing parodies they're fine (or at least vaguely watchable), but when they make their own serious stuff... Man, I though Lucas defecated on the name.

Fanboys are fanboys. The best thing any creative person can do is ignore them entirely.

I still think it's funny that most people upset about the EU hate the prequels, since they're better written than most of the EU.

But ignoring the backstories and characterizations it created is saying you don't care about the fans and what George told them by selling them the EU.

Seriously some of these comments are just silly. I know some people don't like the prequels, or even hate them, but to say things like Lucas didn't care what he did or didn't put any effort in them, etc, is just wrong.

Is it? I dunno, it's easier to believe that they were poorly done because he knew they'd be successful regardless of how little effort he put into them. You think he poured his heart and soul into them and they just came across as half-assed accidentally? I think that is bashing him more than anyone else here.

"Guys, guys! He's not a lazy artist, he's just a really really bad one!"

I think the quality differences are due to a few factors...

Audience target - I think he was targetting younger generations
Creative Control - Lucas' fame allowed him alone to be in charge, in a way that the other movies weren't.

Let's bring this back to the ships... Will FFG still be promoting the same game in 2016 when we expect they would produce new EP. 7 ships? And what would the stats be? Wouldn't you think that after a couple more waves the Meta is going to change drastically and possibly have broke the game?

Sorry to be posing downer questions, but I'm worried we are going to have 4/4/1/4 and 5/1/4/4 basic ships soon and I'm just saying out loud that newer ship will have to have major, possibly game breaking, stat increases. 30 year on ships will need to be better and thus FFG will need to reflect this if they are going to keep this game as it is.

There really isn't any reason you can't add those ships now and not break the game. You have them cost really high ( and I mean really high) your 4/4/1/4 could be balanced by only giving it one green manuver while 4 red or 50+ points so your limited to one per squad. A 5/1/4/4 is really not as scary as you might think having only one dodge and 8 hits to death means most squads kill it in two rounds of attack. Make it 34 points and up to limit it to just 2 per squad.

Let's bring this back to the ships... Will FFG still be promoting the same game in 2016 when we expect they would produce new EP. 7 ships? And what would the stats be? Wouldn't you think that after a couple more waves the Meta is going to change drastically and possibly have broke the game?

Sorry to be posing downer questions, but I'm worried we are going to have 4/4/1/4 and 5/1/4/4 basic ships soon and I'm just saying out loud that newer ship will have to have major, possibly game breaking, stat increases. 30 year on ships will need to be better and thus FFG will need to reflect this if they are going to keep this game as it is.

I'll grant you this thread has meandered all over the place, and we havent talked about the leaked pics that inspired this conversation in PAGES. But it wasn't ever a future wave speculation thread. I don't think we're "bringing it back" to anything so much as we're boldly going where no thread has gone before.

Hell, Adolf "thread killer" Hitler was brought up a page or two ago and we're STILL going strong. That in itself is a feat!

I think FFG will produce those ships if LFL gives them the mandate to do so.

There's so much more and so many ships in the known expanded universe of Star Wars to go before we get to Episode VII. Going forward to the next episode might just be as likely as going back to the prequels. It would be cool to see these "neXt-wings", but I think the E-Wing realistically fits the niche that these future ships would.

Seriously some of these comments are just silly. I know some people don't like the prequels, or even hate them, but to say things like Lucas didn't care what he did or didn't put any effort in them, etc, is just wrong.

Is it? I dunno, it's easier to believe that they were poorly done because he knew they'd be successful regardless of how little effort he put into them. You think he poured his heart and soul into them and they just came across as half-assed accidentally? I think that is bashing him more than anyone else here.

"Guys, guys! He's not a lazy artist, he's just a really really bad one!"

I think it's valid though. The worst directed film of the original trilogy is his, the other two got much better jobs out of the actors. The original script always floats around the internet, you can read it if you want, somebody was there to be an editor for George and tell him when his idea's were bad or when actors were bad in a scene. When we got to the prequels Lucas paid for them himself and got to do whatever he wanted, surrounded himself by yes men, and made the movie vision he had in his head, and it just wasn't nearly as good.

That's not actually saying he's bad, lots of great writers would make bad directors and editors. Lots of great directors would make bad writers or editors... you get the idea. The problem with the prequels was mostly editing (though they should have paid some other writers to go over it and come up with a few drafts). The Phantom edit is actually pretty good really and it's all the same footage, just put together better. I think they did it for the other two, but I haven't seen those.

I don't understand being so worried about it.

"It's star wars. I like it. Give me more of it."

That's not actually saying he's bad, lots of great writers would make bad directors and editors. Lots of great directors would make bad writers or editors... you get the idea. The problem with the prequels was mostly editing (though they should have paid some other writers to go over it and come up with a few drafts).

I agree with you for the most part. The editing was bad. But the dialogue and casting were bad too. And bad casting makes bad dialogue worse. Anyway, I don't mean to make this thread into bitching about the prequels. That's well-worn territory. I just think it's important to understand why they "failed." Not why as in what's bad about them, but where Lucas went wrong creatively that produced sub-par results.

But that's why I'm cautiously optimistic about the new trilogy. IMO, JJ Abrams is much better with his casting, and much better with his dialogue. He knows how to shoot epic scale movies which is exactly what these movies need.

I'm way less concerned with the proportions of an X-Wing and think that with his talents, he'll be able to do these movies justice as long he can keep his head on his shoulders. And as a life-long star wars fan, I think he'll approach them with the respect and humility that George Lucas couldn't. He's a little kid receiving the gift of a life time, he's not Santa Claus.