Go listen George R.R. Martin.

George has made it pretty clear that he'll do what ever he wants to his characters, and doesn't care a bit what the fan base think of it...

I'm curious though, what novels have you had published? I only ask because I'd like to check them out. I might not agree with you on some subjects like ISD's... But I'd still be interested in checking out what you have.

But George owed more than a good story. He owed something that took into account what he and his company made people believe about his universe.

No he doesn't, because he made it quite clear from the start that what other people wrote didn't have any impact on the movies he was going to make.You have it completely backwards. The writers of the EU owed it to the fans to tell stories that fit into Star Wars, but only George had the right to decide what is or isn't Star Wars.

If it weren't treated as Canon by people who represented him it wouldn't matter.

No it wasn't, it never was. They made it clear from the start that the EU stories were never really canon, not as far as the movies were concerned. So George was from the very start free to ignore them as he wished.

But he licensed that work, paid for that work

He never paid for that work, he made a crap load of money off it, other people paid him, not the other way around.

So far as I know pre the internet becoming a household thing nobody had much of a way of knowing what George felt on the matter without obsessive devotion. When the EU started and for many years after, the only way to learn these things was Star Wars magazines, which very few people had or read.

Go listen George R.R. Martin.

George has made it pretty clear that he'll do what ever he wants to his characters, and doesn't care a bit what the fan base think of it...

No he's made it clear he doesn't need to make them happy. He still writes for people that want his storytelling and his style. Otherwise he'd give it a happy ending and run away freely with all the dollars in the world. I'm saying listen to how he talks to and about his fanbase. He's incredibly respectful and spends time learning to understand how they see his world and characters.

So far as I know pre the internet becoming a household thing nobody had much of a way of knowing what George felt on the matter without obsessive devotion.

So? He had made his opinion on things clear even in early interviews. He was if anything completely consistent on that. The movies where his and he'd do pretty much what ever he wanted with them.

Also, I don't know of any book his company commissioned, the earliest book Splinter of the Minds Eye was published by Dell Ray IIRC. The Thrawn Trilogy wasn't published by Lucas either.

He still writes for people that want his storytelling and his style.

Of course he does, all artists want their art to be 'consumed', but again you seem to have it backwards. People are fans of his, because of his style and storytelling, not because he adapted those things to the fanbase.

As long as he stays true to his style and story, then the fans will be happy. But again it's his style not their desires that matter here.

I love the Star Wars universe and all, but everyone that is complaining about what Disney or George Lucas has done to destroy Star Wars need to realise that STAR WARS IS FICTION created by an author to tell a story. Then once the technology was around to tell the beginning of his story the "way he wanted to" he made it into movies as well. Could the newer movies been better done? Certainly. Did they ruin Star Wars? Not really. Can the current or original owner of the intellectual property do whatever they want with it? Of course they can! Will many or even any of you who say they are ruining everything by getting rid of other stories in this vast universe to make new movies actually not see the new movies? Most likely not, and if you did, there would still be way more people in the world watching the movies who haven't even seen all 6 of the other movies, or possibly any of them, who will see these newest Disney Star Wars movies.

Bottom Line: If it will make GL/Disney money, they will do it!

I think you're under selling the EU a bit. It kept star wars in the public's mind in the dark times when nothing else was being released.

George never had any qualms about raking in cash from it. He certainly never hesitated to raid it for any nuggets he liked. And i'm not confident in his thoughts... he was never consistent. He constantly changed his stance.I don't blame him for doing so, but it hardly makes for an authoritative word of god.

The EU was canon. It was not as concrete as the movies, but they had an entire department at Lucasfilm to keep it consistent. Everything with the Star Wars name had to be vetted through it.

Yes the "Legacy" EU is still there, but Disney has made it entirely irrelevant...well untill they replace bits or reintroduce them.

Did it need to happen? Probably. It was far overgrown and creating new stories around it would have been nightmarish.

But it was far more than silly fan-fic. For years the EU WAS Star Wars.

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase.

As long as George is the one making the movies, he's completely free to ignore anything anyone else wrote in the Star Wars universe. So yes, the story does very much belong to him.Now that Disney owns the IP they're completely free to do with it what ever they wish. Which includes establishing a new canon, which most if not all of the EU isn't part of.

Legally and technically yes. But doing so without paying attention to the fanbase and cultural meaning of the film will result in further failures. This is about how to make stories work, about the responsibilities of being in charge of a cultural icon. If George had wanted he could have made the prequals an X-rated violence and sexsplosion. He didn't. He never considered it. But he could have and doing so would have been an incredible betrayal of what Star Wars has come to mean. The same holds for how any writer treats their work. If they're telling only their story they aren't showing respect to their fans. It's a writer thing I suppose. Write to your audience. Not for them, not for yourself, but to them. It makes a huge difference and the fact so far J.J. Abrams seems to be doing that has me very happy.

The most disrespectful thing Lucas ever did to the fans was let Kevin J Anderson write in his universe.

As a fan, the best thing Disney and Lucas Film can do is purge that garbage from the universe. Preferably with fire.

I loved Kevin J Anderson's books. Sure, they were cheesy at times and the super weapon plot line got a little old, but his characters were great, and it felt like Star Wars to me.

STAR WARS IS FICTION

What about the Lucas games though.. im not up to par with the levels of EU, neither interested. Read some of the books and comics, but (maybe except for Zahn's books) don't mind seeing them go out the door. The games however I really did feel most of them being part of MY star wars universe. Anyway, here is another production shots from the movies:

Wow, this thread has gone crazy, it morphed from Star Wars VII X-wings into Atlas Shrugged, lol. I'm going to have to agree with my fellow artists and musicians here, a fan has no ownership of a creator's work beyond the merchandise they purchase or the experience the have engaging with the product. I don't write songs for you, I write them for me, if you happen to like it, awesome, if not, I don't care.

Isn't the Cannon issue getting old? Both the films/tv and the print/games have their highs and lows, but only the films & clone wars cartoon was ever considered 100% cannon but Lucas himself, thats how we get five levels of cannonical heirarchy that existed up until disney's buyout. Lucas even went so far as saying that the only way star wars worked was in film. So now we have disney telling us that everthing created from this point on will be cannon, but you'll still be able to buy the old stuff if you want it, and they might even some bits of those previous works to use again in the future.

If it weren't treated as Canon by people who represented him it wouldn't matter.

No it wasn't, it never was. They made it clear from the start that the EU stories were never really canon, not as far as the movies were concerned. So George was from the very start free to ignore them as he wished.

I agree with your sentiment, but you're actually wrong about this.

As far as Lucasfilm was concerned, at least in the early 90's, the EU - in this case the roleplaying game and the small selection of novels created in the early days of the post-RotJ revival - was canon. It could only be ignored if it directly contradicted the films in some way (like the alien version of Jabba seen in the Marvel Star Wars comics). If you look at the back of the Dark Empire omnibus from the 90s (the original, not the one put out in 2010), then you'll get a better understanding of how this system was supposed to work. Whole manuscripts were rejected because they didn't follow the canon of the movies or other works. It was meant to be a seamless continuation of the films, at least in theory.

In practice, it wasn't seamless. People are human, and several things slipped by because they simply didn't notice them. In addition, there was no rule about quality control. They could only reject a story if it failed to fall into line with the history they were trying to establish. If there was something stupid in it, they didn't have authority to get rid of it on that grounds, mainly because of money (it's not really financially sound to reject even *more* stories and pay authors even more money just because something is stupid or doesn't really feel right).

As time went on however, they started to muddy the waters. People began to make games and comics that weren't 100% canon or accurate to the books and films. So they made a "canon heirarchy" to gain better control and satisfy the fans: the movies and TV shows were the top-level, then came the books, then the comics, then the video games. Material published in the roleplaying game was still high-level canon because it was an invaluable resource (just ask Timothy Zahn, who drew vast amounts of inspiration from it).

So they made a new system, one I didn't bother to memorize because it seemed stupid at the time.

But regardless, the point is that the authors did intend for the EU to be a direct sequel to the trilogy before the Prequels, and that TPTB, excluding Lucas himself, considered them to be the history of Star Wars for all intents and purposes. The books, games, and comics were all a part of the same timeline shared with the films, and so they were all designed to reflect a seamless story. I have been revisiting this story recently and I find that if you ignore the dumber bits, the story itself is mostly seamless, with a few oddities scattered here and there. The authors did a pretty good job of getting everything to work together, with assistance from The Holocron.

Now, I no longer agree with Lucasfilm as it was. I believe that the EU was a separate universe from the one seen in the original trilogy, and that they told a pretty cool story which exists in a parallel universe to the one I know as the Original Trilogy. To me, the Original Trilogy is the legend, and the EU is the history, like how the movie Sergeant York is the legend and my WW2 history book is the history as it happened (from the victor's point of view).

Does this mean I like or dislike the decision by Disney to relegate the EU to the status of "Legends"? I'm rather of the opinion that it doesn't change things one bit. I still have the old EU, and though this sort of kills my hopes for an X-wing Book miniseries, I don't really care. To me, as long as the new stories being made into movies are good, then I don't care.

...

Oh, and I don't really like the look of the new X-wing. Too stubby.

All George owes the fan base is a good story.

Still waiting for one to hatch out of the prequals...

Legally and technically yes. But doing so without paying attention to the fanbase and cultural meaning of the film will result in further failures.

Pretty much every filmmaker in the world wishes they could create such failures.

I don't think so. In fact, I believe the backlash about his prequals was the main reason (ok, most important non-$$$ reason) he sold the IP to Disney. He had been deluded into thinking he could do no wrong (the fanbase owns their share of blame for that). He made the prequals; yes, they still made tons of money and found a fanbase in a new generation, but there was an outcry, 'as if millions of original trilogy fans cried out and were suddenly disgusted'. I think it offended him so he gave up. Given the prequals, I'm not sorry he did. At least there's a new opportunity...

I expect the Imperial Remnant to be the main bad guy with like a hint at the coming of the Yuuzhan Vong. Who may show up around Episode VII, and Episode IX will be the last battle between them,

Regrettably, I have very low hopes for anything Star Wars in the future. Star Wars died for me on April 25, 2014 when the EU was destroyed.

You MISS Xizor!? Good riddance to 90% of the EU. Soooo much of it was just pure crap. It started with just ok books by Zahn and was just full of drivel most of the time.

I wouldn't say Zahn's work was just ok. I thought it was Awesome and it was what restarted Star Wars in books again. Sadly a lot of the books that came out a few years later ruined what Zahn and those came after him had created.

Also how can anyone defend the death of Chewie. I mean really a moon landing on him? Yeah after I read that I stopped reading Star Wars. Good books or not, who ever wrote that basically spoiled reading Star Wars from now on. That author should be ashamed. Very ashamed of himself.

When the EU started and for many years after, the only way to learn these things was Star Wars magazines, which very few people had or read.

Not to mention, they toed the company line and put things in their proper perspective (read: spin).

OMG with the "pre quells sucks". Enough of it. Star Wars pre quells wasn't made for YOU. It was made for kids. I mean even George Lucas said himself that it was made for kids. KIDS. Most likely when you started watching Star Wars.

If you say the pre quells sucked then basically you are saying Star Wars suck. You can not, and I mean CAN NOT say the pre quells suck other wise Star Wars sucks in general. What sucks about Phantom can say about New Hope. What sucks about Jedi can be said about Revenge. All 6 movies had great parts. All 6 movies had awful parts. Some were great movies, others were ok movies, but none of them sucked. If one sucked, then they all sucked because they all follow the same pattern and movie making.

The reason why "pre quells sucks" is because you watched it through ADULT EYES. If you didn't know anything about Star Wars and watched A New Hope now, you in most cases would say the movie sucks or at least it's an OK movie. At least George Lucas did something Different. Just like how he did Phantom and the rest, HE DID SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Did it work? Depends on your view. I think it took away but at least he tried to do something different and not repeat the same thing over and over and over again.

Go watch the pre quells with an 8 year old eyes. Then you will see it's a great or at least a good Star Wars movie. I watch the pre quells and even IV, V, and VI with adult eyes and I don't find them that good. I watch them with 8 year old eyes, and they are great movies, with Empire being the best ever.

George never had any qualms about raking in cash from it. He certainly never hesitated to raid it for any nuggets he liked. And i'm not confident in his thoughts... he was never consistent. He constantly changed his stance.I don't blame him for doing so, but it hardly makes for an authoritative word of god.

This!

He didn't have the Vader/Luke father/son thing fleshed out when he wrote the screenplay (yes, screenplay, not novel) for Star Wars.

He certainly didn't have the Luke/Leah arc mapped out.

Hell, he even changed the planet from Kashyyk (sp?) to Endor for RotJ - and say what you like, it was for both practical purposes (filling that many wookie suits) and the marketing cash cow.

Shall we even bring up the Revenge/Return thing?

Though I was never a big EU fan, I agree with most of your points on it (though I think the OT struck such a chord it kept the myth alive for a generation that didn't get into the EU).

OMG with the "pre quells sucks". Enough of it. Star Wars pre quells wasn't made for YOU. It was made for kids. I mean even George Lucas said himself that it was made for kids. KIDS. Most likely when you started watching Star Wars.

If you say the pre quells sucked then basically you are saying Star Wars suck. You can not, and I mean CAN NOT say the pre quells suck other wise Star Wars sucks in general. What sucks about Phantom can say about New Hope. What sucks about Jedi can be said about Revenge. All 6 movies had great parts. All 6 movies had awful parts. Some were great movies, others were ok movies, but none of them sucked. If one sucked, then they all sucked because they all follow the same pattern and movie making.

The reason why "pre quells sucks" is because you watched it through ADULT EYES. If you didn't know anything about Star Wars and watched A New Hope now, you in most cases would say the movie sucks or at least it's an OK movie. At least George Lucas did something Different. Just like how he did Phantom and the rest, HE DID SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Did it work? Depends on your view. I think it took away but at least he tried to do something different and not repeat the same thing over and over and over again.

Go watch the pre quells with an 8 year old eyes. Then you will see it's a great or at least a good Star Wars movie. I watch the pre quells and even IV, V, and VI with adult eyes and I don't find them that good. I watch them with 8 year old eyes, and they are great movies, with Empire being the best ever.

My biggest issue was the incredibly clumsy execution of the Jedi... Why if they were such great heroes are they also such dicks? Their Philosophy is uncomfortable and Dystopian. I don't watch or read Star Wars for shades of grey. I watch it for Space Battles, Sword Fights, and SPACESHIP!!!! And those scenes are amazing. But the story of the prequals is wonky, and not well executed.

I think when an artist becomes insanely filthy rich off the success of their art and are able to then live a lifestyle they otherwise couldn't, they might owe a teeny tiny bit of something to the people who made that possible--even if it's just respect.

Saying an artist owes NOTHING to the people who make it possible for them to live the way they do conveys only a sense of arrogance and entitlement.

I like the consistancy between the original movies. Stormtroopers hardly changed but they added new ones.

X-Wings and Y-Wings didn't change they just added new ships. They made Empire and Jedi movies with familiar things we loved but added a few more thing in it. Star Destroyers were the same then they added a Super Star Destroyer.

The prequels were so different from one to the next bar the battle droids. They had to modify Clone Trooper armour, change the bad guy every movie (ie Maul, Dooku then Grevious) No consistancy.

If they kept the X-Wings and other fighters from the original the same and added a few more new ones that would be good. Even throw in a Z-95 from before the X-Wings time.

Dont change the look of the cannon fodder bad guys from movie to movie. Yes things progress and get improved but lets keep it familiar with a new story.

As for the EU, I read a couple of the Rogue Squadron books (I should read or at least listen to that whole series again) and liked those ones.

But even the Thrawn series was a yawn (a blue guy? Really? When the entire Imperial force was shown to be human(like) in the OT?) - the 'humanicentric' thing was a subtle point about their doctrine in the OT. I don't remember the stories well enough to remember if they explained it away, but coming from the movies, I couldn't buy it for a minute.

As for the rest (except for the X-Wing and TIE video games - they were a quasi-religion for me for quite some time), I'm ignorant of it and don't feel the least bit sorry...

As for the EU, I read a couple of the Rogue Squadron books (I should read or at least listen to that whole series again) and liked those ones.

But even the Thrawn series was a yawn (a blue guy? Really? When the entire Imperial force was shown to be human(like) in the OT?) - the 'humanicentric' thing was a subtle point about their doctrine in the OT. I don't remember the stories well enough to remember if they explained it away, but coming from the movies, I couldn't buy it for a minute.

As for the rest (except for the X-Wing and TIE video games - they were a quasi-religion for me for quite some time), I'm ignorant of it and don't feel the least bit sorry...

OMG with the "pre quells sucks". Enough of it. Star Wars pre quells wasn't made for YOU. It was made for kids. I mean even George Lucas said himself that it was made for kids. KIDS. Most likely when you started watching Star Wars.

If you say the pre quells sucked then basically you are saying Star Wars suck. You can not, and I mean CAN NOT say the pre quells suck other wise Star Wars sucks in general. What sucks about Phantom can say about New Hope. What sucks about Jedi can be said about Revenge. All 6 movies had great parts. All 6 movies had awful parts. Some were great movies, others were ok movies, but none of them sucked. If one sucked, then they all sucked because they all follow the same pattern and movie making.

The reason why "pre quells sucks" is because you watched it through ADULT EYES. If you didn't know anything about Star Wars and watched A New Hope now, you in most cases would say the movie sucks or at least it's an OK movie. At least George Lucas did something Different. Just like how he did Phantom and the rest, HE DID SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Did it work? Depends on your view. I think it took away but at least he tried to do something different and not repeat the same thing over and over and over again.

Go watch the pre quells with an 8 year old eyes. Then you will see it's a great or at least a good Star Wars movie. I watch the pre quells and even IV, V, and VI with adult eyes and I don't find them that good. I watch them with 8 year old eyes, and they are great movies, with Empire being the best ever.

Wow. I don't know what a 'pre quell' (is that pre-bird feather writing instrument?) is, but the prequals (or pre-quals) sucked.

The Star Wars universe that George Lucas gave us in episodes IV-VI was gritty, dirty and had its own 'realistic' feel (mainly due to the practical effects). It also set up a 'pre-history' whose major arc was defined but it wasn't fleshed out.

Fast forward decades later when the merchandising royalties started to flag, he decides to finally start Episodes I-III. The fact that he went all CGI (among a thousand other flaws) shows that he never saw the Star Wars saga through fans eyes. He started it, but never really 'got it'!

Fine, you enjoy the pre-quals through an eight-year-old's eyes. Just as Uncle George intended. Keeps the marketing machine's gears turning, and all.

I, on the other hand, can watch the OT with my now 45-year old eyes and watch a wondrous epic tale, just as I did when I was 8. The pre-quals, on the other hand were crap when I was 30, they're crap now that I'm 45 and I can assure you, they would have been crap to me at 8 years old as well.

We are all free to enjoy or despise what we will. If you like the pre-quals, kudos to you (and I mean that). But on the flip side, you can't discount the opinion of a great many fans that were there from day 1 that felt the storyless, CGI/marketing fest that was the pre-quals (in our opinions) was an abomination to the world Lucas originally presented.

George Lucas' Star Wars consists of only of one story arc. The rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Nothing else ever mattered to him. All the other characters are there for that story. We may love Han or Lando or Chewie or whoever but Lucas never cared. If Lucas needed to abide by what was written in the EU then we would never have had an EU.