There are OTHER Star Trek movies NOT directed by JJ Abrams? I wasn't aware of that. I wonder if ANY of them are good? Or if some are overly boring with little to no action, with poor production values and stock special effects footage or other crappieness. I wonder if all large movie franchises have similar problems.

This ship that JJ is building is to honor Ralph McQuarrie a true Genius. It is an X-Wing or some X-Wing variation. This attention to the heart of Star Wars and his detailed research he and his crew are putting forth gives me hope that this will not be another Phantom Menace flop.

/waves hand "This isn't the Expanded Universe you're looking for"

Come on, it's not anyones fault, but their owns. People chose to spew out so much stuff without any collaberation / cooperation that you have either huge gaps .. contradictions .. or just some ridiculous stuff.

_{Either way, we all know lens flares will be part of the movie}

LENS FLARE AND CAMERA SHACK

Amusing, I recall high school and hearing the teacher ask about the youth in Asia. When other kids started talking about killing old people .. Well, to say I was confused would be an understatement.

I almost ended up giving a speech in front of the whole class on youth in Asia. Fortunately, something else in the topic list coughs my interest more.

Anyone who mourns the loss of the EU needs to read "Skippy the Droid Jedi" and realize that the EU needed to be put out of our misery. Here's a spoiler from that gem:

The red R5 with the bad motivator from A New Hope, was really a force sensitive jedi droid, who had a vision of an alternate future with him and Luke, but also saw that it would keep R2D2 from completing his mission, leading to disaster, so he blew himself up to save the universe.

This was never canon.

NONE of it was ever canon. When asked about the Star Wars books, comics, and other stories George Lucas stated, "They exist outside my sphere of interest and have no bearing on MY Star Wars."

Anyone who mourns the loss of the EU needs to read "Skippy the Droid Jedi" and realize that the EU needed to be put out of our misery. Here's a spoiler from that gem:

The red R5 with the bad motivator from A New Hope, was really a force sensitive jedi droid, who had a vision of an alternate future with him and Luke, but also saw that it would keep R2D2 from completing his mission, leading to disaster, so he blew himself up to save the universe.

This was never canon.

NONE of it was ever canon. When asked about the Star Wars books, comics, and other stories George Lucas stated, "They exist outside my sphere of interest and have no bearing on MY Star Wars."

NONE of it was ever canon.

They were still canon, just not G canon. Admittedly the very idea of degrees of canon is somewhat of a oxymoron... But that's how LFL set things up.

Which means all the waling and gnashing of teeth about what Disney did is somewhat ironic, because they really didn't do much more then rename EU into Legends... The change really didn't actually change anything. The books and other EU items never really mattered in regards of what George did with the movies. So all Disney really did, was take his stance on the EU and reword it.

George's definition of Star Wars stopped being THE DEFINITION when he passed the reigns on to the writers of the EU.

No it didn't. It was still his ball and he could take it home anytime he wanted to. Just because he let someone else play with it, didn't mean it was no longer his ball.

Anyone who mourns the loss of the EU needs to read "Skippy the Droid Jedi" and realize that the EU needed to be put out of our misery. Here's a spoiler from that gem:

The red R5 with the bad motivator from A New Hope, was really a force sensitive jedi droid, who had a vision of an alternate future with him and Luke, but also saw that it would keep R2D2 from completing his mission, leading to disaster, so he blew himself up to save the universe.

This was never canon.

NONE of it was ever canon. When asked about the Star Wars books, comics, and other stories George Lucas stated, "They exist outside my sphere of interest and have no bearing on MY Star Wars."

Which is obnoxious. George's definition of Star Wars stopped being THE DEFINITION when he passed the reigns on to the writers of the EU. The fact he held no respect for something he made quite a lot of money off of is frustrating to say the least.

He only recently passed the reigns... to Disney. Disney officially put a death to something that never was in the first place. And good for them! Up until just recently, Lucas made it no secrete that Star Wars was his story and he wasn't willing to share it. Recently that opinion changed.

Further more, I'm glad Lucas even allowed the fan fiction to be published! They were fun stories and many of them were enjoyable reads. But they were always meant to be taken as professional fan fiction. I liken it to an ancient Greek playwright creating a story based on a Trojan War hero. It isn't cannon to Greek mythology, but it's a fantastic story that allows us to enjoy the characters again.

This is the image that is currently running through my mind:

- Star Wars fans wait in the cinema, arms crossed with skeptical expressions.

- The movie starts with a short synopsis of the last 6 movies.

- One scene in the synopsis is the Emperor disolving the council, a wall of stormtroopers opening fire on the politicians, one of them being Jar Jar.

- Star Wars fans uncross their arms and think: "Ok JJ, we're willing to listen now."

A bit dramatic, but you get the picture

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase. They never have. George's refusal to understand that was a large part of why the Prequals weren't received well. Go listen to some writers with some humility talk about their work in relation to their fanbases. It's a world of difference.

Yes, George could have shut down the EU. But all it would have done is showed how little he understands about the responsibility he put on himself when he kept control of something with that much cultural clout. And the backlash from his failures is all around...(And I enjoyed most of the prequals, a few scenes aside.)

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase.

As long as George is the one making the movies, he's completely free to ignore anything anyone else wrote in the Star Wars universe. So yes, the story does very much belong to him.

Now that Disney owns the IP they're completely free to do with it what ever they wish. Which includes establishing a new canon, which most if not all of the EU isn't part of.

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase.

As long as George is the one making the movies, he's completely free to ignore anything anyone else wrote in the Star Wars universe. So yes, the story does very much belong to him.Now that Disney owns the IP they're completely free to do with it what ever they wish. Which includes establishing a new canon, which most if not all of the EU isn't part of.

Legally and technically yes. But doing so without paying attention to the fanbase and cultural meaning of the film will result in further failures. This is about how to make stories work, about the responsibilities of being in charge of a cultural icon. If George had wanted he could have made the prequals an X-rated violence and sexsplosion. He didn't. He never considered it. But he could have and doing so would have been an incredible betrayal of what Star Wars has come to mean. The same holds for how any writer treats their work. If they're telling only their story they aren't showing respect to their fans. It's a writer thing I suppose. Write to your audience. Not for them, not for yourself, but to them. It makes a huge difference and the fact so far J.J. Abrams seems to be doing that has me very happy.

Legally and technically yes. But doing so without paying attention to the fanbase and cultural meaning of the film will result in further failures.

No, failure of a story has nothing to do with paying attention to what the fanbase has already done. Either you have a good story to tell, or you don't. What fanfic people have written has no bearing on how good or bad a different story is.

He didn't. He never considered it.

Because that's not the story he wished to tell, and it's also not a story that people would of made him a stupid amount of money.

But he could have and doing so would have been an incredible betrayal of what Star Wars has come to mean.

All George owes the fan base is a good story. He doesn't owe us the story we think he should tell, but rather the story he wishes to tell.

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase. They never have. George's refusal to understand that was a large part of why the Prequals weren't received well. Go listen to some writers with some humility talk about their work in relation to their fanbases. It's a world of difference.

Yes, George could have shut down the EU. But all it would have done is showed how little he understands about the responsibility he put on himself when he kept control of something with that much cultural clout. And the backlash from his failures is all around...(And I enjoyed most of the prequals, a few scenes aside.)

BS! Intellectual Properties belong to the creator/owner until one of two things happens: The legal creator/owner sells the IP rights or the copy right laws run out.

This idea that because a bunch of people like something it should belong to everyone is nonsense. Star Wars is a business, and it now belongs to Disney. As fans we have ZERO ownership of it. If we don't like what Disney does with Star Wars, we can stop buying the product.

As a writer and a musician I see my friends and co-workers cheated out of their rightful profits daily because hoards of people proclaim it isn't hurting anybody to download music or scans of books. Fans get this odd idea that someone else's property is now some how partially theirs because they REALLY like it. As an artist I am always faltered when others find a deep connection with my work. That being said... it's still my work.

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase. They never have. George's refusal to understand that was a large part of why the Prequals weren't received well. Go listen to some writers with some humility talk about their work in relation to their fanbases. It's a world of difference.

Yes, George could have shut down the EU. But all it would have done is showed how little he understands about the responsibility he put on himself when he kept control of something with that much cultural clout. And the backlash from his failures is all around...(And I enjoyed most of the prequals, a few scenes aside.)

BS! Intellectual Properties belong to the creator/owner until one of two things happens: The legal creator/owner sells the IP rights or the copy right laws run out.

This idea that because a bunch of people like something it should belong to everyone is nonsense. Star Wars is a business, and it now belongs to Disney. As fans we have ZERO ownership of it. If we don't like what Disney does with Star Wars, we can stop buying the product.

As a writer and a musician I see my friends and co-workers cheated out of their rightful profits daily because hoards of people proclaim it isn't hurting anybody to download music or scans of books. Fans get this odd idea that someone else's property is now some how partially theirs because they REALLY like it. As an artist I am always faltered when others find a deep connection with my work. That being said... it's still my work.

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase. They never have. George's refusal to understand that was a large part of why the Prequals weren't received well. Go listen to some writers with some humility talk about their work in relation to their fanbases. It's a world of difference.

Yes, George could have shut down the EU. But all it would have done is showed how little he understands about the responsibility he put on himself when he kept control of something with that much cultural clout. And the backlash from his failures is all around...(And I enjoyed most of the prequals, a few scenes aside.)

BS! Intellectual Properties belong to the creator/owner until one of two things happens: The legal creator/owner sells the IP rights or the copy right laws run out.

This idea that because a bunch of people like something it should belong to everyone is nonsense. Star Wars is a business, and it now belongs to Disney. As fans we have ZERO ownership of it. If we don't like what Disney does with Star Wars, we can stop buying the product.

As a writer and a musician I see my friends and co-workers cheated out of their rightful profits daily because hoards of people proclaim it isn't hurting anybody to download music or scans of books. Fans get this odd idea that someone else's property is now some how partially theirs because they REALLY like it. As an artist I am always faltered when others find a deep connection with my work. That being said... it's still my work.

I'm not talking about intellectual property or piracy. I'm talking about the responsibility held by people with cultural sway, and about the interactions between writers and fanbases. George didn't respect that. It cost him a great deal of credibility. It nearly destroyed Star Wars. The prequals certainly aren't the cultural icons the original films are.

As an artist, I have ZERO responsibility to my fan's whims and wishes. If I paint a painting and the world things it symbolizes hope for all human kind, it doesn't make it so. I painted that painting because of my wish to express a creative thought. It is defined ONLY by me. Do I let people have their own opinions about my work? Most of the time. But true meaning is defined by the artist and artist only. This is something fans are just going to have to accept. Maybe that means you stop buying the product, as I said before, but it is SOUL SUCKING for an artist to give up their creative meaning to their work.

Honestly, it is like going up to a parent and demanding they give up their child because others find importance in the baby.

Stories don't belong to their creators, not after they have a fanbase. They never have. George's refusal to understand that was a large part of why the Prequals weren't received well. Go listen to some writers with some humility talk about their work in relation to their fanbases. It's a world of difference.

Yes, George could have shut down the EU. But all it would have done is showed how little he understands about the responsibility he put on himself when he kept control of something with that much cultural clout. And the backlash from his failures is all around...(And I enjoyed most of the prequals, a few scenes aside.)

BS! Intellectual Properties belong to the creator/owner until one of two things happens: The legal creator/owner sells the IP rights or the copy right laws run out.

This idea that because a bunch of people like something it should belong to everyone is nonsense. Star Wars is a business, and it now belongs to Disney. As fans we have ZERO ownership of it. If we don't like what Disney does with Star Wars, we can stop buying the product.

As a writer and a musician I see my friends and co-workers cheated out of their rightful profits daily because hoards of people proclaim it isn't hurting anybody to download music or scans of books. Fans get this odd idea that someone else's property is now some how partially theirs because they REALLY like it. As an artist I am always faltered when others find a deep connection with my work. That being said... it's still my work.

I'm not talking about intellectual property or piracy. I'm talking about the responsibility held by people with cultural sway, and about the interactions between writers and fanbases. George didn't respect that. It cost him a great deal of credibility. It nearly destroyed Star Wars. The prequals certainly aren't the cultural icons the original films are.

As an artist, I have ZERO responsibility to my fan's whims and wishes. If I paint a painting and the world things it symbolizes hope for all human kind, it doesn't make it so. I painted that painting because of my wish to express a creative thought. It is defined ONLY by me. Do I let people have their own opinions about my work? Most of the time. But true meaning is defined by the artist and artist only. This is something fans are just going to have to accept. Maybe that means you stop buying the product, as I said before, but it is SOUL SUCKING for an artist to give up their creative meaning to their work.

Honestly, it is like going up to a parent and demanding they give up their child because others find importance in the baby.

The prequals certainly aren't the cultural icons the original films are.

That has nothing to do with George's "responsibility" to the fanbase, as if there is such a thing. The only thing an artist owes the fans is their best effort, and what ever creative item they wish to create, be it a story, or music or art.

The only say the fan base has on what a artist does, is their choice to support the artist by buying the album, seeing the movie, buying the book, or what ever other method there is.

Legally and technically yes. But doing so without paying attention to the fanbase and cultural meaning of the film will result in further failures.

No, failure of a story has nothing to do with paying attention to what the fanbase has already done. Either you have a good story to tell, or you don't. What fanfic people have written has no bearing on how good or bad a different story is.

He didn't. He never considered it.

Because that's not the story he wished to tell, and it's also not a story that people would of made him a stupid amount of money.

But he could have and doing so would have been an incredible betrayal of what Star Wars has come to mean.

All George owes the fan base is a good story. He doesn't owe us the story we think he should tell, but rather the story he wishes to tell.

Where did I mention fanfic? Nowhere. I agree with your points. They're most of what I'm saying. But George owed more than a good story. He owed something that took into account what he and his company made people believe about his universe. If the EU were fanfic it wouldn't matter. If it weren't treated as Canon by people who represented him it wouldn't matter. But he licensed that work, paid for that work, and then says it doesn't matter despite hundreds of thousands of people reading them and enjoying them and being led to believe they mattered is wrong. I get that with the change in ownership things needed to change, but George clearly didn't respect his fans.

This "mentality" is shared by almost all artists. Become one, hang out with them. You'll learn this. You'll be the same way because you put your very soul into your work. It isn't an expression of you... IT IS YOU.

If you scan interviews of artists you'll notice they often duck questions about meaning. They do this because they know that others have found meaning in their work, and they don't wish to destroy that. But they will, and have, when fans begin to use their art in ways they do not like.

Good luck trying to get an official and "real" answer about what almost any Pearl Jam, REM, or Led Zeppelin (or any band's) song is about.

But George owed more than a good story. He owed something that took into account what he and his company made people believe about his universe.

No he doesn't, because he made it quite clear from the start that what other people wrote didn't have any impact on the movies he was going to make.

You have it completely backwards. The writers of the EU owed it to the fans to tell stories that fit into Star Wars, but only George had the right to decide what is or isn't Star Wars.

If it weren't treated as Canon by people who represented him it wouldn't matter.

No it wasn't, it never was. They made it clear from the start that the EU stories were never really canon, not as far as the movies were concerned. So George was from the very start free to ignore them as he wished.

Just like the writers of Eps 7 are free to ignore everything in the EU to tell the story they wish. This nebulous concept of 'fan respect' simply doesn't factor into it. They don't owe the fans anything really. They will however try to make a story and movie that the fans want to see... Not out of respect but out of desire to tell a story and make a crap load of money in the process.

But he licensed that work, paid for that work

He never paid for that work, he made a crap load of money off it, other people paid him, not the other way around.

but George clearly didn't respect his fans.

And yet, Disney and JJ are doing exactly the same thing George did, by saying that what happened in the EU just doesn't matter a bit in terms of what they'll do from now on.

This "mentality" is shared by almost all artists. Become one, hang out with them. You'll learn this. You'll be the same way because you put your very soul into your work. It isn't an expression of you... IT IS YOU.

If you scan interviews of artists you'll notice they often duck questions about meaning. They do this because they know that others have found meaning in their work, and they don't wish to destroy that. But they will, and have, when fans begin to use their art in ways they do not like.

Good luck trying to get an official and "real" answer about what almost any Pearl Jam, REM, or Led Zeppelin (or any band's) song is about.

Legally and technically yes. But doing so without paying attention to the fanbase and cultural meaning of the film will result in further failures.

Pretty much every filmmaker in the world wishes they could create such failures.