Agree with you there JsBingley, we need more tactics cards that put progress on the quest or give willpower or something like that. I don't want to outright make spirit cards as tactics cards, but the obvious example is to make an event that makes damage on an enemy be placed in the quest as progress instead.

Completely agree Bingley. When I saw that Spirit card I thought "who needs Tactics?"

Regarding Treebeard, he might get his twigs clipped before release. I kinda hope so. He represents a significant power jump.

Can't wait to play Nor I Am A Stranger + Mutual Accord + Sword of Morthond on him...

Or Radagast, for that matter...

I dont understand.... which combo is it?

it's just a silly method to make him Outland so he can gain bonus from the other outlands. 6/8/7/9 or more if you play with partners that discard outlands and you brought them back with stand and fight + map of earnil + dwarven tomb.

You're a sick sick man... I like it. Haha

So they've announced the whole cycle before the first AP is even released. This all feels very weird. In either case, I'm excited to see Treebeard and another Rohan hero.

why is this weird?!

all 6 APs of Against the Shadow were spoiled before The Steward's Fear released...

The Morgul Vale announcement: 4/2/2013

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4047

Release of The Steward's Fear: 5/9/2013

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4132

For further reference:

Core Set: 4/20/2011

Hunt for Gollum: 7/21/2011

Length of Time between Releases: ~3 months

Khazad-Dum: 1/6/2012

The Redhorn Gate: 3/1/2012

Length of Time between Releases: ~2 months

Heirs of Numenor: 11/26/2012

The Stewards Fear: 5/9/2013

Length of Time between Releases: ~5 months

Voice of Isenguard: 2/21/2014

The Dunland Trap: 6/???/2014

Length of Time between Releases: ~4 months

Just because it has happened before doesn't mean it's good or normal. It's not surprising, sure, but it's not perfectly acceptable either. It does feel weird to know the name and theme of the last pack before we even get the first one. It's like having the name and an introduction to a chapter of a book well before you get to that chapter. Hell, even before you actually start reading the book. It is a bit annoying.

Even if Treebeard is over powered does it harm the game that much? He's only one ally, who is unique, has an initial set back but is then super versatile and powerful. I think we all need and want an OP ally and who better than Treebeard! he will definitely shine in non hasty decks aka turtle decks

Completely agree. He is unique so only one in play at a time and enters play exhausted. If they put his cost up it will be devastating. I think alot less people will use him if he costs 5....

As well as this encounter quests/cards are definitely getting harder, especially enemies with their crazy high attack and hitpoints. I think it is totally reasonable for us to have this beasty ally to help us out.

Also nightmare has taken off big time, it looks like they're going to make nightmare versions of almost every quest.... even saga boxes are getting nightmare quests!!!! (nightmare hobbit box) So again I think its reasonable that we have a big awesome ally to help us with these...

Power creep is one thing. I think it is unavoidable in a game like this. But a power explosion is another. Still, even Galadriel respected Treebeard as being the Eldest. (Older than Bombadil? Someone explain that one to me.) Anyway, I'm okay with him being powerful, but I won't be surprised if he isn't released as strong as he appears now.

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Yes i agree. We have a Nmode now so when we talking about restricted or ban some cards we must remember about Nmode. I believe if player come to point he see some cards to powerful then: Wlecome to serious level start play Nmode and see what you will say then!

I do play Nightmare mode. And I lose a lot. But if they give me a bunch of cards so that Nightmare becomes easy, what then?

Anyway, I don't think Treebeard is too overpowered, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't come as advertised.

I hear ya, and I'm really not trying to come after you or anything. He is very powerful, probably more so than any ally other than Gandalf right now. I agree with you on not ruining Nightmare mode as well, the fact that it is difficult is what makes it fun and satisfying. I think the fact that he can re-ready himself could certainly change. His action could end up being choose a non-unique ent character and ready them, that wouldn't surprise me a whole lot either I suppose.

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Completely agree with this. If he gets nerfed (even just cost of 5 instead of 4) I will be upset....

If anything he should have only been able to ready OTHER ents and not himself as well, but I would kinda rather this not be changed either as it detracts heavily from how good he would be and I would not use him at all if this was the case.

I hear ya, and I'm really not trying to come after you or anything. He is very powerful, probably more so than any ally other than Gandalf right now. I agree with you on not ruining Nightmare mode as well, the fact that it is difficult is what makes it fun and satisfying. I think the fact that he can re-ready himself could certainly change. His action could end up being choose a non-unique ent character and ready them, that wouldn't surprise me a whole lot either I suppose.

Should have read this post before commenting =P

Yeah I think they either overlooked that or might change it. I really really hope not though.....

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Yes, I do play Nightmare. That is exactly my point. I love difficult scenarios. Power creep in the player card pool has a negative effect on my play experience. The encounter deck is supposed to be challenging. Treebeard's attack strength, defense, and hit points are insane for what he costs. If his cost stays at four, and it were up to me, I would put him at 3 attack strength, 1 defense, 1 willpower, and leave his hit points at 5.

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Yes, I do play Nightmare. That is exactly my point. I love difficult scenarios. Power creep in the player card pool has a negative effect on my play experience. The encounter deck is supposed to be challenging. Treebeard's attack strength, defense, and hit points are insane for what he costs. If his cost stays at four, and it were up to me, I would put him at 3 attack strength, 1 defense, 1 willpower, and leave his hit points at 5.

and still have him enter play exhausted? He would be terrible....

also only one defense for an Ent? A being made of bark and wood? Nope

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Completely agree with this. If he gets nerfed (even just cost of 5 instead of 4) I will be upset....

If anything he should have only been able to ready OTHER ents and not himself as well, but I would kinda rather this not be changed either as it detracts heavily from how good he would be and I would not use him at all if this was the case.

Good point. I noticed that he can ready himself but the readying is really, really expensive, considering that you would probably be wanting to spend his resources on paying the Ent cards. I am excited if there really are Ent cards other than allies, that would be jolly sweet.

As for powerful, I always think the iconic characters should be powerful. The only time I am calling for errata is when one specific effect is outright stronger than other (whilst doing the same thing) or when there is a stupid strong synergy. But characters like Gandalf, Treebeard or Glorfindel should be "better" than others in a way. Now for Tom Bombadil, him and Goldberry! The only great icons still not portrayed by the game...

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Completely agree with this. If he gets nerfed (even just cost of 5 instead of 4) I will be upset....

If anything he should have only been able to ready OTHER ents and not himself as well, but I would kinda rather this not be changed either as it detracts heavily from how good he would be and I would not use him at all if this was the case.

Good point. I noticed that he can ready himself but the readying is really, really expensive, considering that you would probably be wanting to spend his resources on paying the Ent cards. I am excited if there really are Ent cards other than allies, that would be jolly sweet.

As for powerful, I always think the iconic characters should be powerful. The only time I am calling for errata is when one specific effect is outright stronger than other (whilst doing the same thing) or when there is a stupid strong synergy. But characters like Gandalf, Treebeard or Glorfindel should be "better" than others in a way. Now for Tom Bombadil, him and Goldberry! The only great icons still not portrayed by the game...

I am honestly thinking of running him without other Ent allys... it is expensive and it is awesome to spend on getting ent allies out while keeping resources on your heroes and saving them for better use HOWEVER, his stats are better than the other ents.... so I'd pretty much always rather just have a second action with him

You do make a good point though. Plus getting more allies out helps against treacheries, archery and much much more

Definitely either running him on his own, or with x3 Booming Ent in the same deck.

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Yes, I do play Nightmare. That is exactly my point. I love difficult scenarios. Power creep in the player card pool has a negative effect on my play experience. The encounter deck is supposed to be challenging. Treebeard's attack strength, defense, and hit points are insane for what he costs. If his cost stays at four, and it were up to me, I would put him at 3 attack strength, 1 defense, 1 willpower, and leave his hit points at 5.

and still have him enter play exhausted? He would be terrible....

also only one defense for an Ent? A being made of bark and wood? Nope

I think that having high hit points makes sense, since an Ent is, as you mention, strong. But, they are also relatively slow and do not do much in the way of fancy defensive moves. I would say that they have a good ability to withstand damage (i.e., hit points), but not necessarily "defend" against damage.

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Completely agree with this. If he gets nerfed (even just cost of 5 instead of 4) I will be upset....

If anything he should have only been able to ready OTHER ents and not himself as well, but I would kinda rather this not be changed either as it detracts heavily from how good he would be and I would not use him at all if this was the case.

Good point. I noticed that he can ready himself but the readying is really, really expensive, considering that you would probably be wanting to spend his resources on paying the Ent cards. I am excited if there really are Ent cards other than allies, that would be jolly sweet.

As for powerful, I always think the iconic characters should be powerful. The only time I am calling for errata is when one specific effect is outright stronger than other (whilst doing the same thing) or when there is a stupid strong synergy. But characters like Gandalf, Treebeard or Glorfindel should be "better" than others in a way. Now for Tom Bombadil, him and Goldberry! The only great icons still not portrayed by the game...

I am honestly thinking of running him without other Ent allys... it is expensive and it is awesome to spend on getting ent allies out while keeping resources on your heroes and saving them for better use HOWEVER, his stats are better than the other ents.... so I'd pretty much always rather just have a second action with him

You do make a good point though. Plus getting more allies out helps against treacheries, archery and much much more

Definitely either running him on his own, or with x3 Booming Ent in the same deck.

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but do you guys who are saying "nerf him" play Nightmare and stuff? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from with saying he's overpowered to the point he needs to be changed. I personally hope he doesn't. He's powerful, but so are Dain and Outlands. If there comes a time when quests from like Heirs of Numenor get Nightmare versions, it'd be nice to actually have some powerful allies to call upon that don't get mauled immediately. I agree that he's on a new level as far as allies go, but he's Treebeard.. why wouldn't he be? =)

Yes, I do play Nightmare. That is exactly my point. I love difficult scenarios. Power creep in the player card pool has a negative effect on my play experience. The encounter deck is supposed to be challenging. Treebeard's attack strength, defense, and hit points are insane for what he costs. If his cost stays at four, and it were up to me, I would put him at 3 attack strength, 1 defense, 1 willpower, and leave his hit points at 5.

and still have him enter play exhausted? He would be terrible....

also only one defense for an Ent? A being made of bark and wood? Nope

I think that having high hit points makes sense, since an Ent is, as you mention, strong. But, they are also relatively slow and do not do much in the way of fancy defensive moves. I would say that they have a good ability to withstand damage (i.e., hit points), but not necessarily "defend" against damage.

yeah fair enough, good point.

They should make him cost 5. He's better than Gandalf even right now.

I disagree (even if he cost 5 he'd still be good) but how good is Sneak Attack Treebeard... just sayin.

Yeah Gandalf is a Wizard but Treebeard is an effing Ent!! And he had 2 less willpower and one less defense so he should definitely cost 4.

Really? 3 actions every two turns and just as good at attacking as Gandalf and almost as good at defending and he stays on the table forever?

I think he should be 5, but 4 isn't completely crazy I guess.

For the record, I don't want him to get nerfed. I just want him to cost 5. It's more balanced.

Right now he is an auto-include in every deck. Not very interesting.

So they've announced the whole cycle before the first AP is even released. This all feels very weird. In either case, I'm excited to see Treebeard and another Rohan hero.

why is this weird?!

all 6 APs of Against the Shadow were spoiled before The Steward's Fear released...

The Morgul Vale announcement: 4/2/2013

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4047

Release of The Steward's Fear: 5/9/2013

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4132

For further reference:

Core Set: 4/20/2011

Hunt for Gollum: 7/21/2011

Length of Time between Releases: ~3 months

Khazad-Dum: 1/6/2012

The Redhorn Gate: 3/1/2012

Length of Time between Releases: ~2 months

Heirs of Numenor: 11/26/2012

The Stewards Fear: 5/9/2013

Length of Time between Releases: ~5 months

Voice of Isenguard: 2/21/2014

The Dunland Trap: 6/???/2014

Length of Time between Releases: ~4 months

Just because it has happened before doesn't mean it's good or normal. It's not surprising, sure, but it's not perfectly acceptable either. It does feel weird to know the name and theme of the last pack before we even get the first one. It's like having the name and an introduction to a chapter of a book well before you get to that chapter. Hell, even before you actually start reading the book. It is a bit annoying.

Actually, it *is* normal.

The Hunt for Gollum release: 7/21/2011

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2490

Return to Mirkwood Announcement: 7/14/2011

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2471

The Redhorn Gate Release: 3/1/2012

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3114

Shadow and Flame Announcement: 3/5/2012

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3120

So, for the Dwarrowdelf cycle, the announcement was only a couple days after the "general release" article for The Redhorn Gate - barely squeaking by.

The point I'm trying to make is *not* that this is good (or bad - I'm indifferent) but rather, the common complaint seems to be that we know the last pack (well) before we have the first pack. I'm simply showing objective information that this has been the case for 3 of the 4 cycles, and almost the case in the 4th (Dwarrowdelf).

On the one hand, folks are complaining that there isn't enough news. On the other, they complain when we get news - and then they complain that we are getting news of a final pack before receiving the first pack as if that is a new trend - it's objectively not.

The thing about Treebeard (and all the Ents really) is that you are giving up an resources for something that will only help you on the following turn. Whether this is a good idea in general depends on the added cost effectveness of the ally, and the general consensus seems to be that these cards are worth it. However, many quests tend to be hardest early on, so you're giving up ressources when you need them the most. First turn treebeard is certainly possible with some ressource generation, but that means facing the setup cards plus first quest phase with only your heroes. So Ents would tend to work best with low threat decks or in quests with a slow start. Merry, Pippin (Lore), Sam also seems to be a natural match for Ents, with sphere matches for all Ents, ressource generation, low starting threat, and in-built readying for Sam if you want to pull an enemy on turn 1.

They should make him cost 5. He's better than Gandalf even right now.

I disagree (even if he cost 5 he'd still be good) but how good is Sneak Attack Treebeard... just sayin.

Yeah Gandalf is a Wizard but Treebeard is an effing Ent!! And he had 2 less willpower and one less defense so he should definitely cost 4.

Really? 3 actions every two turns and just as good at attacking as Gandalf and almost as good at defending and he stays on the table forever?

I think he should be 5, but 4 isn't completely crazy I guess.

For the record, I don't want him to get nerfed. I just want him to cost 5. It's more balanced.

Right now he is an auto-include in every deck. Not very interesting.

Making him cost 5 might actually balance him out a little more. It limits the number of cards that can help you get him on the field turn 1, and if you play him turn 2 the earliest he can get into the action is turn 3. That's ent speed to me, lol.

Of course I haven't tried them yet, so I am only guessing, but I think the "enters play exhausted" is a rough deal in general.

As always I'm only referring to solo playl:

Of course I haven't tried them yet, so I am only guessing, but I think the "enters play exhausted" is a rough deal in general.

Yep, it's like I said: TB is fantastic when you're up for the long run. He's not that good when you face threats immediatly at the beginning of the game (like in Morgul Vale).

And is he an auto include? I'd say only if you play an Ent deck. Otherwise there are alternatives like both Gandalfs, Saruman, Beorn (ally) etc.

However, I like the card as it offers another new strategic approach. Like Saruman did. Both these new power allies seem fuel different strategies. Saruman can help you immediatly, has the better stats as that ent and he is cheaper. Also, his special ability can be extremely useful. But then he is gone too soon and he leaves you with a nasty legacy. Saruman stands for short termed improvisation, while TB plays the long term encounter deck control tune.