When firing Cluster Missiles (two separate attacks) if one attack hits and one attack misses does Munition Fail Safe kick in since the attack missed?
Munitions Fail Safe+Cluster Missiles
If I remember correctly yes, that was what most of agreed to on how it would work. There's no FAQ regarding it, so that's not official though.
No. Cluster Missiled allows you to perform 2 attacks. If either attack Hits, Munitions Failsafe can't trigger, because the trigger is 'do not discard unless the attack hits.' which is does.
What Vanor said.
And yet again, screw Cluster Missiles 
That card is a nightmare that needs to be shot and dumped into the river.
I disagree. IMO, if you don't actually discard the ordnance card, you shouldn't apply any of its effects.
Note that all ordnance has the conditional formula 'Discard to >> perform special attack'. Normally, You should discard the card before the rolling attack dice step. However, 'Munitions Failsafe' allows you to keep the card until the 'compare results step'. If the attack hits, you must discard the ordnance card now and proceed as normal. But if the attack fails, you keep the card, but not having discarded it, you couldn't apply any of its additional effects, because the "discard to" prerequisite is not met.
Following this theory, in the case of cluster missiles, you should choose to use failsafe after the first (and only the first) volley miss. In order to make a second attack, you have to use the card's text, and to do that, you should discard it first... Edit: On second tought, I think Stephen's suggestion would be closer to the rules. Since clusters specifically allows you to make 2 attacks, if either hits, you should discard the card.
Of course, this is only an alternative interpretation on how 'failsafe' works, and it is totally unofficial. But I find it more consistent with the Rules As Intended, less prone to abuses, and with less pilots stressed from torpedoes that aren't actually fired, and less cluster missiles that return to their tubes after exploding on target.
Edited by Jehan MenasisI don't understand the logic behind the people saying that you can keep the clusters if one of them misses....
"When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack, do not discard it unless the attack hits."
***Note here that the card does not say "if the attack misses, keep the card."***
If you hit with one attack and miss with the other, did you hit the defender? Yes. You may have also missed, but you also hit. Since the condition of "hitting" has been met, you discard cluster missiles.
When firing Cluster Missiles (two separate attacks) if one attack hits and one attack misses does Munition Fail Safe kick in since the attack missed?
Edited by ForgottenloreIf I remember correctly yes, that was what most of agreed to on how it would work. There's no FAQ regarding it, so that's not official though.
The issue is that there are two separate attacks. Technically according to the wording of Munitions Failsafe, if either of the attacks failed to score a hit, the requirements are satisfied and the missile is kept. It really ought to have an FaQ/Errata to confirm this though and I can definitely see the point of view of the other side of the argument.
The issue is that there are two separate attacks. Technically according to the wording of Munitions Failsafe, if either of the attacks failed to score a hit, the requirements are satisfied and the missile is kept. It really ought to have an FaQ/Errata to confirm this though and I can definitely see the point of view of the other side of the argument.
How do you figure? The card says
"...do not discard it unless the attack hits."
Does the first attack hit? If yes then discard the card, if not then keep the card per MF. Move on to the second attack. Does the second attack hit? If yes then discard the card, if not then keep the card per MF.
Personally I'm not touching it with a ten foot barge pole until FFG provides an FaQ.
I'd advise you to do the same or in the very least check with your TO prior to the start of the event.
Id say, if any damage is dealt with Cluster missile, either attack, then you have to discard it. Based on the wording of Munitions Failsafe, this is a no Brainer. If you deal damage with an Attack using Cluster Missile, discard it. The same Cluster Missile card is the source of both attacks, after all.
On another note, if you recall the ruling for Cluster Missile and Gunner, if the first attack missed, you could trigger gunner. But in doing so you would give up your second Cluster Missile shot. With Munitions Failsafe you could fire the first Cluster missile, if it misses you could Gunner instead, and even if you hit with Gunner, you still keep your Cluster Missile with the Failsafe, since the source of the attack was not Cluster Missile, it was your Primary attack with Gunner.
On another note, if you recall the ruling for Cluster Missile and Gunner, if the first attack missed, you could trigger gunner. But in doing so you would give up your second Cluster Missile shot. With Munitions Failsafe you could fire the first Cluster missile, if it misses you could Gunner instead, and even if you hit with Gunner, you still keep your Cluster Missile with the Failsafe, since the source of the attack was not Cluster Missile, it was your Primary attack with Gunner.
That is an interesting suggestion.
If the first cluster attack misses, you use gunner and keep the missile. If the first attack hits, you perform the second and discard the missile.
The round you use up the missile, the first attack does damage. That is better than a normal missile shot.
Is that a viable strategy?
Edited by dvor
That is an interesting suggestion.
If the first cluster attack misses, you use gunner and keep the missile. If the first attack hits, you perform the second and discard the missile.
The round you use up the missile, the first attack does damage. That is better than a normal missile shot.
Is that a viable strategy?
Seems like a good plan to me. You'll lose the potential for a third attack if the second missile shot misses, but I'd trade that for keeping the missile in the tube.
Cluster Missiles need to die in a fire.
That is an interesting suggestion.
If the first cluster attack misses, you use gunner and keep the missile. If the first attack hits, you perform the second and discard the missile.
The round you use up the missile, the first attack does damage. That is better than a normal missile shot.
Is that a viable strategy?
Seems like a good plan to me. You'll lose the potential for a third attack if the second missile shot misses, but I'd trade that for keeping the missile in the tube.
Cluster Missiles need to die in a fire.
How likely will we see that? Which ships can equip missile and crew? Firespray-31 and YT-1300. That's all.
The firespray might prefer HLC (7 points) or APT (6 points) instead of 5 points for failsafe clusters. And has anyone ever seen a named YT with clusters?
How likely will we see that? Which ships can equip missile and crew? Firespray-31 and YT-1300. That's all.
The firespray might prefer HLC (7 points) or APT (6 points) instead of 5 points for failsafe clusters. And has anyone ever seen a named YT with clusters?
I think I phrased that poorly - by "good plan" I meant "Good plan to make the choice to use Gunner and save the missile if you arrive in that situation", not "Good plan to build your squadron around".