Re-rolling Re-rolls

By Hrathen, in X-Wing Rules Questions

It is a pretty standard game rule that you cannot re-roll a dice that you have already re-rolled. But I have been looking for that in these rules and I can not find it. I am looking for the exact wording becasue I am curious defensive re-rolls (from R7) interact with offensive re-rolls from something like TL or Howelrunner.

I see a couple of possibilities-

1- there is no rule about re-rolling re-rolls

2- Dice that have been re-rolled cannot be re-rolled again. So a ships with an R7 droid forces tah attacker to re-roll his/her hits, those dice cannot be re-rolled by the attacker

3- Dice that have been re-rolled cannot be re-rolled by the same player. So if the defender forces an attacker to re-roll attack dice, the attacker can still do his/her re-rolls.

Again I am interested in the exact wording from FFG

Rulebook page 12. Left column, last paragraph:

important: When a die is changed or rerolled, ignore its original result and apply only the new result. This new result may be modified by other effects; however, a die that has already been rerolled cannot be rerolled again during this attack.

As dvor states you can'r re-roll dice more than once. However neither 2. or 3. is true.

If you read the R7 Astromech card, it stated it triggers once per round when defending. I interpreted this as :You defend when you roll your defense dice, which is after the attacker has the opportunity to re-roll his attack dice. So R7 will only be able to force a re-roll of a die that wasn't already re-rolled.

But then I actually came to another conclusion. When the attacker resolves the Modify Attack Dice step, R7 once per round allows you to force your opponent to re-roll one attack dice. This way re-rolling attack dice only takes place in this step. So your opponent gets to pick the dice he can re-roll with an ability or a TL token. And then you get to force an additional die to be re-rolled as well. Then the attacker throws the dice to be re-rolled, and is then free to further modify dice results with focus tokens or abilities.

Curious to hear if people agree.

The moment you declare a target for an attack, that target becomes the defender and so is defending.

The structure for an attack states that defender modifies attack dice befor the attacker. So it's very clear that R7 kicks in befor the attacker has a chanse to reroll anything.

What Smuggler said.

"While defending" applies to the entire attack. Dark Curse is a good example here. So that means that the R7 can activate any time you're a defender.

Abilities which modify attack dice (including rerolling them) are used in Step 3.

Defender abilities which modify attack dice go first.

The R7 is a distinct ability which will resolve fully (forcing you to reroll the dice I want you to) before the attacker can take any action (spending focus, target lock, Han in his various incarnations)

Dice which have been rerolled cannot be rerolled again.

Dice which have been rerolled CAN be modified - if my R7 hands you a bunch of eyeballs and you've got a focus token, I may memory wipe him when we get home but you get to keep all those juicy hits.

There's no restriction on WHO is doing the rerolling, so if I (as the defender) force you to reroll an attack die, you can't then reroll it later. We've actually had this as a well-established interaction for a while thanks to Elusiveness, but nobody ever thinks about it because nobody ever uses Elusiveness :)

Kind of worn out right now, so forgive me, little confused.

So you attack me.

You have a target lock let's say.

You roll hit hit focus.

Now before you modify, I modify first.

Get you to reroll your two hits. Now you get blank focus,

Now with your target lock you can't re roll those 2 dice, but you could still reroll the other

Correct?

Kind of worn out right now, so forgive me, little confused.

So you attack me.

You have a target lock let's say.

You roll hit hit focus.

Now before you modify, I modify first.

Get you to reroll your two hits. Now you get blank focus,

Now with your target lock you can't re roll those 2 dice, but you could still reroll the other

Correct?

Looks good to me.

I...completely did not know any of this. Very glad I found this topic. This changes everything...

Now put the droid on tarn Mison and you can do this every turn you are attacked.

Each dice can only be rerolled once and there is a specific procedure to follow in how dice are modified.

Basically defender modifies red dice first, attacker modifies green dice first.

Sorry, but I know that first roll dice the attack player with all the effect like distance, asteroids, pilot ability, etc., then the attack player must declare if want use TL or Concentration or other attack ability, ad so on to the end to determinate the final result of attack. Now the defender can use all ability of reroll or change the result of attack. In case of reroll of an attack dice the only possibility is use of concentration if he does not use before and have one in advance. TL can not used because you can reroll the dice already rolled from defense ability. Now that attack result is final the defense roll his dice with effect of distance, asteroids, and so on. at the result of first roll Apply concentration, evade and other ability so I have the final defense result.

Now is possible to check if attack is good or not.

Do you think there are some mistakes in this?

I stand corrected. I actually never noticed the part where the defender abilities goes before the attackers.

Sorry, but I know that first roll dice the attack player with all the effect like distance, asteroids, pilot ability, etc., then the attack player must declare if want use TL or Concentration or other attack ability, ad so on to the end to determinate the final result of attack. Now the defender can use all ability of reroll or change the result of attack. In case of reroll of an attack dice the only possibility is use of concentration if he does not use before and have one in advance. TL can not used because you can reroll the dice already rolled from defense ability. Now that attack result is final the defense roll his dice with effect of distance, asteroids, and so on. at the result of first roll Apply concentration, evade and other ability so I have the final defense result.

Now is possible to check if attack is good or not.

Do you think there are some mistakes in this?

Some small errors, the defender uses thier reroll ability/modification BEFORE the attacker does (including spending TL/Focus), and vice-versa for defence.

Last sentence under "3. Modify Attack Dice" on pg 11

If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify attack dice, the defender resolves all of his abilities before the attacker.

(emphasis is thiers)

and on the next page under "5. Modify Defence Dice"

If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify defence dice, the attacker resolves all of his abilities before the defender.

(emphasis is thiers)

So the process is:

1. Declare Target

2. Roll Attack Dice

3.Modify Attack Dice -> defenders modify/re-roll BEFORE attackers

4. Roll Defence Dice -> Not your question, but this is the bit that I find lots of new players get wrong, they roll their green dice before #3.

5. Modify Defence Dice -> attackers modify/re-roll BEFORE defenders

6. Compare Results

7. Deal Damage

This order becomes important on occasion. For instance, during a recent tournament I was at a player was attacking a shuttle with sensor jammer with a TIE fighter. TIE rolled (crit) (blank). Howlrunner allowed a reroll of the blank for a (hit). At that point, it was too late for sensor jammer to do anything as it didn't have a (hit) to modify during its window.

Now put the droid on tarn Mison and you can do this every turn you are attacked.

Besides the fact that the droid says once per turn...

What Smuggler said.

"While defending" applies to the entire attack. Dark Curse is a good example here. So that means that the R7 can activate any time you're a defender.

Abilities which modify attack dice (including rerolling them) are used in Step 3.

Defender abilities which modify attack dice go first.

The R7 is a distinct ability which will resolve fully (forcing you to reroll the dice I want you to) before the attacker can take any action (spending focus, target lock, Han in his various incarnations)

Dice which have been rerolled cannot be rerolled again.

Dice which have been rerolled CAN be modified - if my R7 hands you a bunch of eyeballs and you've got a focus token, I may memory wipe him when we get home but you get to keep all those juicy hits.

There's no restriction on WHO is doing the rerolling, so if I (as the defender) force you to reroll an attack die, you can't then reroll it later. We've actually had this as a well-established interaction for a while thanks to Elusiveness, but nobody ever thinks about it because nobody ever uses Elusiveness :)

I played Tarn Mison with R7 today against a friend. And as i thought to know how all this works, i seem to have misinformed him unintentionally, as i was wrong about it. But i don't think that it would have changed anything really considering the outcome.

I might just make people reroll focus results whenever they have a focus token since the attacker gets to modify them if not.

But i have looked it up and as you write it here it is exactly correct.

1.Attacker rolls dice.

2.Defender points out dice to be rerolled through R7.

3.Attacker rerolls said dice.

4a.Attacker may modify dice here

4b.Attacker may reroll any dice that have not been rerolled already.

4c.Attacker may modify dice here

Then defense dice are rolled, rerolled, modified... After which results are compared and damage inflicted.