The standard Mythos phase has 4 steps:

1. Open Gate and Spawn Monster(s)

2. Place Clue Token(s)

3. Move Monsters

4. Activate Mythos Ability

Kingsport adds two steps (no official names in the rules):

a. Move rifts

b. Advance rift progress and open rift if full

Obviously, rifts will open after they move (first sentence under "Open Rifts", p. 8), but do they move before or after monsters move? If before, the monsters they generate may also move; if after, the new monsters won't move.

Also, do they move before or after the Mythos' ability is activated? If before, generated monsters may be removed by the ability.

The rift moves, and only after it moves a monster is spawned in its new location, so the monster won't move this turn. All of this occur in the "move monsters phase" so the mythos' special ability would occur last.

kroen said:

That's how I play it. In addition (by the same logic) the Dunwich Horror won't move immediately after it awakens, even if there is a crescent movement.

So when a rift enters a vortex and then spits out a monster which then immediately awakens the Dunwich Horror? Don't worry—you're safe.

Yeah and remember that rifts don't move the same phase they're opened.

I think rifts and monsters all move at the same time (though the new monster spawned comes after the movement as kroen said), but if there's ever a conflict about what order they move, it's up to the First Player to decide, as it is a timing conflict.

Tibs said:

Rifts can't move into vortexes... if a rift moves to a vortex it stays where it is and a monster is spawned on the area near the vortex, where the rift is. I'm prerty sure it doesn't spit the monster to the vortex...

kroen said:

Somebody too busy making up pointless debates to read through actual, useful threads, like the Kevin's answers thread?

"[KH] 3. What happens if a Rift appears in Kingsport and moves into a Vortice? I would say it simply remains there, spitting out a monster that instantly passes through the vortice every time it is supposed to move, but again, the rulebook doesn't say. (06/13/08)
If a rift moves into a vortex, it just sits there, as you surmised. Note that a rift will still add a doom token / spit out monsters if it cannot move. The drawing of the proper dimensional symbol on a mythos card is the trigger for that, NOT the actual movement."

lol? nothing in that answer implies the vortex spits the monster directly into the vortex.

kroen said:

So where exactly do you then spit the monster to??? Rules say monster is placed at rifts location. Question asked if it will still spit a monster, nothing in KW's answer says it doesn't.

As I said, it will spit the monster to the rift's location... which is street adjacent to the vortex... you know, the street where the rift is... yes, the question says it spits the monsters to the vortex, but there's nothing in the answer to support it.... you have shown no conclusive evidence so please don't call my threads "pointless". Thanx.

kroen said:

If the rifts location is the street, why isn't it IN THE STREET then, but in the vortex? Also, read Tibs' post from earlier.

Rifts may move into vortexes. Once a rift has moved into a vortex, or if one was already in a vortex and its symbol came up that would have made it move, it spawns a monster. The monster is in the vortex and is immediately eaten, raising the terror level and adding a DH token.

Dem's da rules sir.

What? I thought rifts can't move into vortexes... nvm what I said then.

I still don't like my threads being called pointless.

I just got done downloading and reading the rules for Black Goat. In particular, the Corruption effects -- which trigger due to dimension symbols -- specifically happen after monster movement in step 3 of the Mythos phase. So it makes sense that rift operations -- which also trigger off dimension symbols -- also take place at that time.

This makes the Mythos phase sequence:

1. Open Gate and Spawn Monsters

2. Place Clue Tokens

3a. Move Monsters

3b. Move Rifts and Spawn Monsters

3c. Advance Rift Progress and Open Rifts

3d. Apply Corruption Effects

4. Activate Mythos Ability

If there's no Corruption/Rift interactions, step 3d can happen any time after step 3a. Otherwise, there's another sequence issue as both rift operations and corruption effects both happen sometime after moving monsters.

As Tibs pointed out, if the Dunwich Horror appears due to a rift spitting a monster into a vortex, its unique movement ability does not trigger. But this raises the question: Does it trigger if it appeared due to a monster moving into a vortex during step 3a if there's a moon symbol? I'd say yes because its then a monster on the board during the movement phase whose symbol appears on the Mythos card. Although you can move the monsters in any order (timing rules), you still have to move all the monsters (or trigger their unique movement).

I'm pretty sure the Dunwich Horror doesn't move on the turn it enters play, even if a moon symbol caused a monster to a enter a vortex.

kroen said:

He didn't say all your threads were pointless, just the Great Debates!

I didn't say "all" either.

Oops, pardon my Freudian slip...

Macronx said:

I don't think that's right. In other words, I don't think something should be able to move if it was created by something else moving. That implies a rigid "before/after" effect, suggesting that movement isn't something that just happens once—that doesn't seem right.

In addition, I don't activate the vortex ability until everything has moved. This would put "feed vortexes" somewhere after 3a, but may distinctly fall between two of your phases.

One last thing—if a Corruption Card's effect is to draw more Corruption cards, I don't immediately activate the new Corruption cards' effects, even if their symbol is up. Sam reasoning as everything else I've mentioned.

To me, Corruption cards, the Dunwich Horror, and rift-borne monsters suffer an immediate "summoning sickness." Newly opened rifts already officially have this sickness.

Macronx said:

Actually, step 3c would be moved to be a step 5. Closed rifts are operated after the Mythos card is resolved, open rifts are operated during the Mythos phase. From the KH rulebook: Each time a mythos card is resolved, check to see if the monster movement pattern on it matches any of the patters next to a closed rift.

So, the current debate focuses on when the open rifts move and spawn monsters. Currently, we play the same way you do: Moving open rifts and spawning monsters AFTER monster movement. The rulebook does say that the rift moves when the same symbol of monsters move. But since we do not move rift-spawned monsters the same turn, we wait until all of the current monsters have moved before spawning another.

Gamemaster said:

I don't think the rule clearly indicates "after", though it doesn't clearly indicate its concurrent with checking movement either. I play it that it occurs when movement is resolved because its the harsher interpretation. Reason: Once or after a Mythos card is resolved, the phase and turn is over.

Page 12: TURN END

Once the first player has resolved all steps of the
Mythos Phase, the first player marker is passed to the
left. The turn is now over and a new one begins with the
Upkeep Phase. Play continues in this way until the end
of the game.

Here's the entire rule. Note that after the Mythos effect is resolved, the Mythos card is discarded.

Finally, the first player looks at the special text on the
mythos card, examining the trait listed at the top of the
card. The various traits indicate different types of
mythos cards, and they are resolved in different ways as
described below.

Headline: The first player immediately resolves the
special text of a Headline mythos card. He then discards
the mythos card face down to the bottom of the
mythos deck.

Environment: The special text of an Environment
mythos card remains in play for several turns, possibly
even until the end of the game. The first player places
the card face up next to the game board, discarding any
previous Environment mythos card face down to the
bottom of the mythos deck. This means that only one
Environment mythos card can be in play at a time.
Rumor: The special text of a Rumor mythos card
remains in effect until either the Pass or Fail condition
on the card is met, at which point the card is resolved
and is discarded face down to the bottom of the mythos
deck.

Only one Rumor can be in play at once. If there is
already a Rumor mythos card in play, ignore the special
text of the newly drawn Rumor and discard it face down
to the bottom of the mythos deck after resolving its
other effects for the turn (such as gate opening and monster
movement).

Other Effects: Additionally, the mythos card may call
for one or more “activity” or “closed” markers to be
placed on specific locations. Simply place the respective
markers on the locations indicated by the card. If the
card leaves play, remove the markers from the locations
as well.