something along the lines of garven's ability for a TIEadvanced pilot would be good.

so would say Vader #2 and Vader #3 with different effects. They are still Darth Vader, so you can ever only field 1, but you get to choose from a pretty nice selection

I doubt they'll give a free boost via title. They really haven't done anything like that in the past to fix something or retro it... When boost was created, they made it a modification, and then said any ship can take one, even if it's not on the upgrade bar... Same thing with title...

They then wanted the phantom to be able to be more unpredictable, so instead of barrel rolling / boosting to decloak, they said use the 2 template to do that. Likewise with the interceptor dude that can bank barrel roll.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a title that allows something along those lines... "Action: After executing a green maneuver, you may preform a free barrel roll action using the 1 turn template. Cost 2. Title. Advanced Only."

Or even make it 1 point since the Advanced is "over priced" anyways. I wouldn't make it free though, since then it would be an auto include and reduce the strategy. I'm not saying this is what it will be, but I just don't see FFG saying "you may take a free FCS or EU for 2 points" or something like that to "fix" the Advanced... It'll be something innovative that will make it fly unlike any other ship.

I wonder how many of us House Rule the needed fixes for this awesome (looking) ship?

I've found in my games that simply giving the Advanced (but not Vader) a free FCS balances it. It's not the most creative answer, but I would be happy if FFG did this for all Non-Vader Advanced pilots.

We tried the Night Beast ability on the Advanced once.

(receive a focus token whenever executing a green manoeuvre.)

It seem not enough really but sure made the Tie-A a lot better. (not as bad?)

I wonder how many of us House Rule the needed fixes for this awesome (looking) ship?

I've found in my games that simply giving the Advanced (but not Vader) a free FCS balances it. It's not the most creative answer, but I would be happy if FFG did this for all Non-Vader Advanced pilots.

So it could be implemented in the text that it doesn't work on the "x1" due to prototype purposes.

Disputably the worst ships are the Advanced and Y-wing, so maybe Yavin Aces?

Admittedly, I love the Y-wing, but I don't think it's popular so I believe some tweaks are in store.

The Y-wing is fantastic. It may not get used that much but it certainly has it's place as a fantastic support ship.

The HWK, however, is a flying turd.

At least the hawk offers the rebels a focus passer, something that is a big advantage over the imps

I doubt they'll give a free boost via title. They really haven't done anything like that in the past to fix something or retro it... When boost was created, they made it a modification, and then said any ship can take one, even if it's not on the upgrade bar... Same thing with title...

They then wanted the phantom to be able to be more unpredictable, so instead of barrel rolling / boosting to decloak, they said use the 2 template to do that. Likewise with the interceptor dude that can bank barrel roll.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a title that allows something along those lines... "Action: After executing a green maneuver, you may preform a free barrel roll action using the 1 turn template. Cost 2. Title. Advanced Only."

Or even make it 1 point since the Advanced is "over priced" anyways. I wouldn't make it free though, since then it would be an auto include and reduce the strategy. I'm not saying this is what it will be, but I just don't see FFG saying "you may take a free FCS or EU for 2 points" or something like that to "fix" the Advanced... It'll be something innovative that will make it fly unlike any other ship.

DO WANT.

That would be the single greatest barrel roll in the game. Just move forward then, spin...

i think the very important difference between rebel and imperial is that with each ship that uses an astromech comes out, you are getting new options for all your ships that use astromechs.

imperials do not get that diversity, so their ships do not feel the love of each wave.

lets take imp aces,

what was new in the aces that only imperials could use? royal gaurd tie

how many ships in the imperial fleet did it effect? 1

transport set included new options for how many rebel ships? xwing and ywing (and soon ewing) with droids

then when wave 4 hits? all the 3 droid using rebels get another option

when wave 4 imperial hits how many upgrades will be available to imperial and not rebel? cloak

how many imperial ships can use this? the 1 it comes with.

dont get me wrong, i love that the rebel droid using ships can mix and match droids, what im saying is the imperials do not have that same versatility with imperial only upgrades.

but with all that said, other than ship upgrades or pilot skills, there really isnt anything the imp ships would have to pass from one another

how about advaned sheilding for tie advanced only upgrade, takes missile slot, but adds 2 sheilds

Could make a Tie Avenger title for it

2 points to add an attack to it sounds reasonable.

And then sell it with a a new model (TIE Avenger of course looks slightly different) and give out 2 TIE Avenger title cards per pack.

I would totally buy this.

The problem with the Tie Avenger is that the Defender stole its stats.

Thematically, the Tie Avenger should be the ship with 3 atk/3 def. And Defender with 4 atk/3 def.

But for gameplay, practical, and recognizability reasons they released the defender with stats of an Avenger. Thats why we wont see one.

I think turning the advanced to a support ship that is durable and can still hold its own is the better than trying to make it into a dog fighter (although simply giving it boost would help in that regard - espessially for Vader)

Copy pasta from a different Tie Adv fix thing:

Why not just make the advanced fix -2 modification and gives it a system slot?

1. Because just giving the ship a system slot doesn't help it any unless you spend even more points on it.
2. At 19 points it costs the same, adjusted for PS, as the TIE Interceptor.
3. You'll still take Vader over any other pilot, all the time.
4. Do we really want to see Advanced Sensors TIE Advanced?

1.The -2 balances out some of those extra points from the slot

2. The trade being boost and +1 attack and a better dial vs 2 shields then seems like a balanced trade off

3. How is that Different then Fel being used over basically any interceptor? (Turr is the only one even in the ballpark and Soontir is still more popular I think

4.Yes I do, if it isn't broken for a B-wing with the same action bar as a Tie Advanced why would it be bad for an Advanced to have it?

1. Yes the -2 point adjustment helps, but in this case it would simply set the default cost at 19, and you would rarely see people use the system slot.
2. The Interceptor would still be slightly better, so you wouldn't see much use of the TIE Advanced at that point, outside of Vader. My main point was that having different ships at different cost structures is A Good Thing. Especially since FFG introduced the ship at 21 points to be equivalent to the X-wing, why would you want to significantly deviate from that?
3. You are making a straw man argument: there are MANY other Interceptor pilots in use in Regionals lists. The same cannot be said for TIE Advanced; even when they were used occasionally in Store Championship lists it was almost always exclusively Vader. Vader is significantly better than any of the other TIE Advanced for the cost, whereas Fel is only slightly better for the cost.
4. It's not just an issue of "broken" and "balance", but functionality. Again, why radically change the ship from FFG's initial design if you don't need to?

The problem with reducing the cost of the advanced is that it would allow you to take 5 at 100 points. That would be game breaking.

Citation? There is zero evidence for this view. If you're worried about 5 TIE Advanced, then imagine facing 7 Z-95s and 1 A-wing...

Giving it a system slot is incredibly good but not game-breaking.

1. Advanced Sensors would be great, and would allow for dogfighting. Opens up the role for a tanky, nimble medium support fighter. Think Multi-role airplanes, used by the Navy. That's what the Imperials lack, is a middle choice. (We have the heavies like the Firespray and Defender at 30, but nothing in the middle. Interceptors aren't really tanky, they're Interceptors/Fighter-role-planes). Giving Bombers a good support class is also great for both 100pt and Epic.

2. Fire Control System gives free TL for missile roles. We now have a great viable missile boat, and Cluster Missiles becomes a huge thing.

3. Enhanced Scopes for blocking would be really good too. The Adv has the tankiness for that role. See how much this system slot uses all of the good parts of the ship and enhances it?

4. Sensor Jammer makes these things hilariously hard to hit if you have a list that takes advantage of it. Also allows you to use Opportunist on the Adv. Buffing its attack. Its perfect. People do this already. Maarek Stele would love you in Epic.

5. Having the same cost as the Interceptor makes sense. They're completely different stat wise and play-wise. High manevuerablitiy and 3 dice, vs high defense and 2 dice with good modifications. At 19pts (18 PS1) they're about what I'd want to pay. 27 for Vader is fine too. Seriously. He still has 2 attack dice and needs further upgrades. Have you seen Vader in any tournament lists?

6. It also still opens up their only useful modification, the Engine Upgrade.

--

There are 9 or so interceptor pilots. Compared to the 4 Adv pilots. All 4 are pretty much overcosted too. The generics aren't exciting like the RG or the Saber or even the Alpha. Of course there are other Int pilots that are used more.

As for functionality: FFG HAS NO CLUE WHAT THE ADV IS FOR. Its a failure. Give it a role and let it really do that job. That or open it up for modification/customization of a few roles (Multi-role).

--

Lastly, facing 5 Tie Adv isn't going to be game-breaking. It will be potent, but thats about it. 5 pts left over. 10 attack dice only. 25 hull at 3 agility. It'll be interesting.

Rethinking it: I'd just do -1 and add system slot. Honestly, everyone cries about Vader being competitive and i don't see it at all. He's still overcosted at 28 points (-1).

5 Tempests with 25 hull and 3 agi and 10 dice for 100pt isnt too bad.

at -2 you get 5 extra points for an assault missile and that might be a little too radical but still plausible. Someone try this against a swarm!

Note how much versatility in roles the Adv gets from having systems. This makes more diversity for the game.

This would also work:

"Add a title that gives the boost action for 0-1 pts. And possibly an Advanced only modification that adds the systems slot.

Then, shift the Tie Advanced into a support ship, by giving new pilots good supportive abilities and adding a strong supportive EPT that plays into Vaders Wheelhouse."

-Deadwolf

Boosts its crappy 2 dice by letting it likely get into R1 more often. It has the agility and hull to avoid being taken out too fast too!

actually, given how FFG has released the TIE Defender and Ewing, both ships which are severely overcosted by most player's estimates + my own table time with them, I really am skeptical that the TIE advanced would be receiving any sort of help.

Imperial War Machine Pack:

{insert my long list of things in from multiple other threads here. Highlights include X2-7 unique titles and new pilots for most Imperial Ship types}.

I'm sure that if your search-fu is strong, you can find the details.

actually, given how FFG has released the TIE Defender and Ewing, both ships which are severely overcosted by most player's estimates + my own table time with them, I really am skeptical that the TIE advanced would be receiving any sort of help.

I think the rebel aces pack and chaardin refit in particular is proof that FFG is willing to buff ships that are under represented.

Sorry, i still say leave it alone. First off, it was an experimental ship (as per my local Star Wars nerd), and second, the Empire has enough toys, hell, we got wave four ahips.

Maybe add a few new pilots to add some spice, such as maybe a pilot that does better under stress...such as gets free action after stress maneuver.

Just my rhoughts.

Sorry, i still say leave it alone. First off, it was an experimental ship (as per my local Star Wars nerd), and second, the Empire has enough toys, hell, we got wave four ahips.

Maybe add a few new pilots to add some spice, such as maybe a pilot that does better under stress...such as gets free action after stress maneuver.

Just my rhoughts.

Leaving it alone means it will be used very sparingly.

(I used it *once*, as Vader and deemed it shite considering the points spent)

It also certainly does not help sales. I have at the very least 3 of every imperial ship.

Except one. Can you guess which one it is?

I'd prefer it to be worth it's cost/ worthwhile fielding (spacing?)

My 2 cts. Peace and fly casual.

Sorry, i still say leave it alone. First off, it was an experimental ship (as per my local Star Wars nerd), and second, the Empire has enough toys, hell, we got wave four ahips.

Maybe add a few new pilots to add some spice, such as maybe a pilot that does better under stress...such as gets free action after stress maneuver.

Just my rhoughts.

Leaving it alone means it will be used very sparingly.

(I used it *once*, as Vader and deemed it shite considering the points spent)

It also certainly does not help sales. I have at the very least 3 of every imperial ship.

Except one. Can you guess which one it is?

I'd prefer it to be worth it's cost/ worthwhile fielding (spacing?)

My 2 cts. Peace and fly casual.

I agree with you...but we now see modifications for the a-wing and now possibly a wholesale rewrite of the Tie-A. Eventually FFG may have to rewrite other ships.

The tie -a was an experiment leading to other designs and may have to go into retirement.

For those familiar with the expanded universe, not me, i am sure the tie-a played little role, but i could me wrong....

However, your point is well made.

Peace bro

I've taken the Advanced into games more than a few times, and not just with Vader. I've used the standard squadron pilots a few times. Sure it's overpriced, but it looks cool, and I've found it tends to survive better than some other ships. I actually quite like the ship.

I'll say this for the Advanced. It's an amazing ship when you want to show somebody the game and make them feel awesome. Play a 50 point game. Give them a decent rebel list,(Once Rebel Aces Hits Etahn with Advanced Sensors and an A-Wing) Run Vader and a Tie Fighter. Let them feel awesome as they beat Vader despite every fancy Shenanigan he can possibly pull.)

the price for output seems to be the issue here. all pilot skills and mannuever dial aside, you can get 2 tie fighters for the price of an advance., you double your attack and 1 more hit point

yes it survives longer, it has 5 hit points and 3 defense dice, so you stop more hits with your dice so the 5 hit points allow you to last longer. but lasting longer doesnt matter if you cant produce damage while you are out there

if we are going to compare ships, lets compare these 2:

cheapest tie a = 21

cheapest bwing = 22

which ship would you take right out of the gate? bwing? of course you would.

why? because its a tank that hits hard

yes you have 1 defence die, but you have 8 hit points and 3 attack, so while you are getting blasted, you are inflicting alot of damage in return. and those ships that need to get to range 1 to put a hurting on (tie a) is going to take a pounding regaurdless of defense dice against 4 attack dice. it takes alot of fire power to remove the bwing from the table and requires focus fir, that you cannot get with the points cost of the tie a.

and for those of you who say the tie a is more manueverable than the bwing, examine that for a second.

how great is a 2 k-turn, its awesome. less distance between you and the target you just flew by. yes you dont get to target lock (unless you took the 2 point fire control system then this is even better) but you are most likely at range 2 not 3 so your 3 attack dice has a better chance to do damage again.

i dont think it fair to compare the tie a to any rebel ship with a droid, as they are by far the most versatile ships in the game when it comes to building options.

ORS or tie a? take the turret with the same damage output and 10 hit points for just 6 more points. the turret itself is worth half those points, and then the crew options that you have.

ok, ive compared enough rebel ships to tie a, lets try similar imp ships.

its arguably better than a lone tie fighter, but you can buy almost 2 tie's for i tie a.

interceptor or tie a? interceptor, more speed and mannueverability and more damage output. only down side is its a glass hammer. but a 21 point interceptor has a pilot upgrade slot that improves its effectiveness greatly

the firespray bomber and lambda are just too different to compare effectivly, imo.

would i use vader? hell yes. would i use any other tie a? hell no.

not even marek? nope, not enough damage output to make his ability worth wild. maybe you use it once every game or 2.

i love this game, i love the way the old ships are still rellavent after each release, FFG has done a great job with this game, except where this ship comes into consideration. they have put out tutorials giving us examples of how to run some ships. if we are all wrong and this ship does not need to have anything done for it, please let us know what we are doing wrong with it.

yeah, im calling you out FFG. please tell us how we can more effectively use this ship so that we will go out and buy more. and that of the 5 i bought hastily,( hey it was a new ship, vader flew it, i got sucked in...............ok, its a sickness) the other 4 can have the dust brushed off of them.

I'm certain it will receive some help. Just not to the degree the "proven" ideas. As nice as the Chardaan Refit is, I really don't think FFG will add something like that to the Advanced. Keep in mind, the Chardaan Refit was sort of necessary for the A-wing, thanks to the Z-95. The A-wings role as the cheap missile carrier was about to be wholesale replaced. And at 17 pts, it was going to have a tough time fighting the Z-95 as filler. So, make it cheaper, so you get more value for the point upgrade for your filler ship. The ship with a role similar to the Advanced is the Bomber. I think there is enough design space, that they can create a new role for the Advanced without the cost decrease.

actually, given how FFG has released the TIE Defender and Ewing, both ships which are severely overcosted by most player's estimates + my own table time with them, I really am skeptical that the TIE advanced would be receiving any sort of help.

I think we need more time with wave 4. People still think the shuttle and Hwk are terrible, though I think they're among the best ships in the game.

Sorry, i still say leave it alone. First off, it was an experimental ship (as per my local Star Wars nerd), and second, the Empire has enough toys, hell, we got wave four ahips.

Do the E-wing and Z-95 not exist?

Sorry, i still say leave it alone. First off, it was an experimental ship (as per my local Star Wars nerd), and second, the Empire has enough toys, hell, we got wave four ahips.

Maybe add a few new pilots to add some spice, such as maybe a pilot that does better under stress...such as gets free action after stress maneuver.

Just my rhoughts.

No, I think we do need some updates. More pilots would help get the ship to the table sort-of, but there is no help for the generics then, and this is not an effective tool for a list. Upgrades to help the TIE Advanced across the board would help these become viable ships for many different kinds of lists, and bring them out of the dust-ridden shadows and on to the table with new and exciting combos.