So this past weekend I played in my first X-Wing tournament ever. It was my first time playing outside of my group of 2-3 friends. In round 1 I was paired against a kid around 10-13 years old. Not sure exactly how old. He knew the game well enough to play, but he was a kid, ya know?

Anyhow, I was there to have fun and despite my desire to win I was giving the kid a pass on some of the formalities and just trying to be a good sport and help him out. Please note, we were following the game rules completely, I was just helping him decide on actions and things like that. It wasn't complete chaos on the board (other than my flying).

Well halfway through round 3 of our game I noticed he had upgrades assigned illegally. He had R2-D6 on Wes Janson, giving him 2 EPT (Veteran Instincts and Draw Their Fire, both 1 pt cards). Except R2-D6 says right on it that you cannot equip him if you already have an EPT slot.

So I called the TO over, which was just a store employee/owner. He didn't seem that versed in the game rules. So he called over one of the players, a guy that walked us through some of the tournament rules before we started.

I want to stop here and say I have no ill will towards the store or any of the players. I had a great night and wish I lived closer to them so I could play there more often. I definitely plan on going back when I have an opportunity. I was completely fine allowing them to handle the situation. I'm just wondering if it was handled properly.

The TO and rules savy player, trying to be fair, say I can choose which EPT he can keep, and he loses the droid and other EPT. Then through the rest of the tournament, each opponent chooses one of those EPT for him to use. I said OK and went with it.

How should this have been handled? I guess there is nothing in the tournament rules, so in the end its up to the TO. I'm guessing in the strictest sense, a DQ could have been in order.

Just curious how anyone has seen this handled in X-Wing.

In the end, mostly due to my terrible flying, I ended up losing the round. But I went 1-3 on the night, so I don't think a win would have made much of a difference.

Well, in a hypercompetative serious-business stop-having-fun-guys environment, your opponent would be forced to forfeit all of their matches.

Fortunately, we here fly casual.

The TO came up with a fair and lenient solution, in my opinion.
Alternatively, he could have voided the match, and let the person discard the droid and EPT in favor of an initiative bid.

It's a good idea for TOs to run all the builds through Voidstate or another squad builder before the tournament to catch things like that.

It's a good idea for TOs to run all the builds through Voidstate or another squad builder before the tournament to catch things like that.

I think the situation was handle pretty well.

At least they didn't kick the kid out. Which could have happened depending on the type of players there.

The best thing to suggest is always look through your opponents cards. If something is off hopefully you catch it before the have starts.

I had a similar situation come up at a store championship earlier this year.

It was a younger player like your story, who had put TWO stealth devices on an interceptor with royal guard title, and it wasn't caught until halfway through his game as well (I wasn't playing against him). I can't remember if he just took one off for the rest of the day, or was allowed to swap it for another upgrade of equal or lesser value, or maybe put the extra stealth on a different ship.

Surely in the first round each player checks his opponent's squad list prior to set up? Then each signs off the list and confirms correctness to the TO. TO should also spot check some proportion of all the lists as oversight. Any errors discovered later lead to elimination of both the player and the one who verified his list...

Well that can be a little harsh

If it was a regional, or world match, maybe,

Most of these tournamentsare for fun anyway. Being that strict on someone, especially if they are new, and their first time may really turn them off.

The community,and people you play with also makes a difference and can be what makes the game fun or not

And to kick the person who verified the new players list as well?

Since when is it others responsibility to hold other players hands?

What happened to the saying fly casual?

I'm sorry but what you suggest would really turn off players. New and old.

Anyway, to the Op concern, I think your TO did things to his best knowledge.

I'm sure the kid probably learned as well

I think what that TO did was a much better solution for that kid's long-term enjoyment of the game as opposed to slamming the rulebook down on him and tossing him out of the tournament. I really doubt a 10-13 year old kid was trying to game the system; an honest mistake, caught early, shouldn't get the kid thrown to the lions.

That sounds like the best fix for that match. Were it me as the TO, after the match finished I'd likely have the kid swap the Astromech for a equal value one and then put the EPT on some other legal ship if he has one.

Yes the TO could of kicked the kid out of the event, he didn't have a legal list, but I'm glad the kid got to keep playing.

Well that can be a little harsh

If it was a regional, or world match, maybe,

Most of these tournamentsare for fun anyway. Being that strict on someone, especially if they are new, and their first time may really turn them off.

The community,and people you play with also makes a difference and can be what makes the game fun or not

And to kick the person who verified the new players list as well?

Since when is it others responsibility to hold other players hands?

What happened to the saying fly casual?

I'm sorry but what you suggest would really turn off players. New and old.

Anyway, to the Op concern, I think your TO did things to his best knowledge.

I'm sure the kid probably learned as well

Krynn007 - I am saying you check before set up and get to modify if there is a problem. If two people miss the error then sure eliminate both. They can always ask for help on the verification.

Surely in the first round each player checks his opponent's squad list prior to set up? Then each signs off the list and confirms correctness to the TO. TO should also spot check some proportion of all the lists as oversight. Any errors discovered later lead to elimination of both the player and the one who verified his list...

I tried, but the kid wasn't very good at explaining things. It was an Assault on Imdaar Alpha event, but I was there to have fun. Rather than delay the game further, I decided to let us get started and ask the kid about his squad a little at a time in the opening rounds. Wes Janson was unfortunately the last one I asked about.

It's a good idea for TOs to run all the builds through Voidstate or another squad builder before the tournament to catch things like that.

Well the thing is, the voidstate builder currently allows adding R2D6 to any pilot with an Astromech slot, giving pilots that already have an EPT a second one. Even had they put all 19 builds in there, it would not have been caught.

I think it was a good fix. I'd generally try and fix it to the minimal disruption possible. If someone doubled up the Stealth, just move it to a different ship. With the droid and double EPT, move them if you can. If there are no valid ways to move it, just pull the upgrades and they play down the points. Most cases, the impact should be minor.

That would be for after the current game - I think when you realize it you just disable the illegal upgrades for that game. That should avoid "Well, Turr looks like he's in trouble over here so I'll move that second Stealth over to him" concerns.

I think most players check their opponent's lists at the start of the game, but especially as we get more complicated interactions, especially new ones, it's going to be easy to miss things. How many people have we had suggest dual Stealth? And the "Not on a pilot who already has an EPT" restriction was one I hadn't internalized yet, it would be an easy miss. Same goes for TOs. When we get lists I usually look through the list for obvious errors, but I don't think any of us has every card cost, every upgrade cost, every upgrade slot, and every special restriction memorized. It is possible to miss something. And "Put them all in Voidstate" sounds great, until you've got like 40 players, AND you're now requiring TOs to have computers and web access. It's just not realistic.

The issues are minor and usually easy to fix; treat them as such, and they'll stay that way.

Yeah due to stories like this, I'll be asking for lists at the start of games.

But if there is an issue like the OP's one, I'd probably just suggest an upgrade swap/drop anyway and just carry on.

Well that can be a little harsh

If it was a regional, or world match, maybe,

Most of these tournamentsare for fun anyway. Being that strict on someone, especially if they are new, and their first time may really turn them off.

The community,and people you play with also makes a difference and can be what makes the game fun or not

And to kick the person who verified the new players list as well?

Since when is it others responsibility to hold other players hands?

What happened to the saying fly casual?

I'm sorry but what you suggest would really turn off players. New and old.

Anyway, to the Op concern, I think your TO did things to his best knowledge.

I'm sure the kid probably learned as well

Krynn007 - I am saying you check before set up and get to modify if there is a problem. If two people miss the error then sure eliminate both. They can always ask for help on the verification.

If I drive 2-3 hours for a tournament, I'm not going there to hold someone hand to make sure they set up their squads right, tally up their points, only to get the boot if I over look someone's set up.

If that was the case, I'd want to get reimburse for my travelin expenses. Gas bridge,

This happened in the Ohio regional. My 4th round opponent was running 2 shuttles, both with EU and APL... About 3/4 of the way through the game (when he boosted so I ran into him and had to roll) it dawned on me that it was illegal. I called the TO over, and we went through all the FAQs and rules. Nowhere does it say what to do about an illegal list, so the TO ruled that he had to forfeit this round, and he had to choose one of the upgrades to keep for rounds 5+6.

The TO didn't retroactively change his record (he was 2-1 going into the 4th round iirc) because his opponents had the same opportunity to call foul on him as I did, and they didn't, plus it'd be way too complicated to fix, and would end up messing with people's SoS and everything.

It puts the TO in a tough position because everyone is there to have fun, but at the same time, no one wants to feel cheated. I can't speak for the person who built the illegal list, but myself and the guys I knew there all agreed with how the TO approached it. He could have been more strict and thrown the guy out and retroactively given his opponents wins, but that wouldn't be as much fun for the dude that made the mistake with his list.

We are people and people tend to make mistakes.

I like how the T.O. handled this problem in this case.

My last tournament a fellow player pointed out to me that I had a 1 point Veteran upgrade on Roark. I didn't noticed that veteran upgrades were not in the upgrade bar I threw it on as a 1 point filler to make my list 99 Points. So I thanked him and asked my opponent if he wanted a free win. He said no as well he was winning anyways (I got whipped both my rounds) So I discarded the upgrade and when he destroyed the HWK (and the rest of my squadron) I included it in the point total so my opponent got the full 99 points destroyed even if it really was only 98 (Hey it is not his fault I messed up on my list).

Since he wasn't deliberately cheating, and it was a small tourney, I don't see a problem. You guys handled it well, and if it satisfied both players, I don't see the big deal. In a large tourney, or with big prizes at stake, yeah...that's another story, and I'd probably have him forfeit the match from an illegal list build. I'd be more than happy to compromise as you did, though

Just to touch on the idea of putting squads through a squad builder to validate, Voidstate actually has a few flaws (Wedge + R2-D6 = two EPT slots according to the website right now), so relying on that to filter isn't without its issues either.

Just to touch on the idea of putting squads through a squad builder to validate, Voidstate actually has a few flaws (Wedge + R2-D6 = two EPT slots according to the website right now), so relying on that to filter isn't without its issues either.

It could even be why the error was made in the first place.

Using machines/programs to put together things can be a great help BUT you really need to know how to do it without that assistance so you can recognize when something isn't right.

besides, it would take forever for a TO to collect lists from everyone and enter them ALL into a squad builder to verify, assuming he/she even had access to one at the venue.

besides, it would take forever for a TO to collect lists from everyone and enter them ALL into a squad builder to verify, assuming he/she even had access to one at the venue.

Well the TO did collect lists from everyone. We were notified ahead of time, so most people brought them with. He did have access to a computer, but I don't know if it had internet access. We had 19 people in the event.

I think in general the TO should look over the lists, but they won't always catch everything. The players should also look over their opponent's squad before each round. I explained why I had forgone that. One thing I didn't add was the tables were 5' across, so it was hard to see each specific card across the table from me.

I think it's good for the TO to look over peoples list, also you should look over the other guys list before the game starts. But as is pointed out, we're humans and we may miss something.

I figure in the case of an illegal list you have effectively 2 situations.

1) The flaw isn't really that big of a deal, you may not even notice it, which means it will have little to no effect on the outcome of the game, like VI on Roark.

2) the flaw is pretty big and will have an effect on the game. Odds are you'll notice it right away when it comes into effect even if you missed it when looking at the list. Such as EU and APL on a Shuttle.

If it's case 1, then you have a whole lot of "no harm no foul" IMO. Case 2 on the other hand, I think having the person forfeit the current match is more then fair.

Ya, is a tough call.

I mean if it made a significant difference and the person with the illegal list was 2-0 or something, I think by default, instead of kicking them, change their wins to losses. The players who lost, change them to maybe match wins, and carry on.

It's a real tough call

The best we can do is be more careful. If the person seems new take a little extra time and go over their list.

Regardless, mistakes happen

I mean if it made a significant difference and the person with the illegal list was 2-0 or something...

Only thing is, how did the person go 2-0 with no one noticing it? I mean I suppose they could played two newbies who wouldn't of known any better, so wouldn't of noticed something wrong with the list. But then again, if that's true the person would of likely won anyway.

I guess that IMO, if you don't notice something being wrong, then I'm not sure how much of an effect it really has on the outcome.