Out of curiousity I was wondering if these 3 all interacted like everyone says they do...

So you play lynx tail...use lynx tail's e to drop the damage by 4 and raise the speed by 4. That part I get cause there actually is a reduction in the attack's damage. However, Ive heard some people saying that they play Cage Arena's e next and it some how counts as reducing it by 7 again. Thats the part I am curious about.

Cage Arena says E Commit 1 foundation: This attack get's minus X damage (minumum 1). X equals this attack's speed. Any player may play this ability.

Would this actually work after you use Lynx's enhance? I am more inclined to say no because its already below the minimum, and can't reduce past that. My second question is while it would have reduced 7, even though it does nothing would it still count to Hilde's own E?

Just curious...didn't know if I was missing something. Thanks

The "min 1" comes into play after the fact. The x value is still 7.

If Mininimum referenced the value of X, then playing it on a 1dmg attack would result in reducing it by 1 and making it zero dmg.

But every other bit of damage reduction that has that minimum refers to the minimum it can be reduced to. Example would be A Giant of a Man where the minimum was not the minimum it would reduce, but the minimum the attack could be reduced to. That being said it has no text saying that the effect is any different than any other one with the same restriction.

The thing is, the damage wasn't reduced, so it should not count.

It goes from 0 to 0, thus nothing really happened. There was no reduction.

Either damage pump the attack first (so that damage is positive and the min 1 won't affect it) or use cage arena before you use Lynx Taiil's own enhance giving it -3 damage (4-4min1). Lynx Tail doesn't have a minimum so can reduce itself to negative damage if the damage is already at or below 1.

aslum said:

but then you can only cage for 3 as opposed to 7

First turn dropping amy's + cage + healer/tkdz is easily 2nd turn kill, and quite possible without the healer/twdz.

Attack with lynx, -4 w/ lynx, -7 w/ cage, -4 w/ amy's (avg), -1 hilde, return to printed with healer, E with hilde making it 39spd 36dmg for lethal. Even if they rejection, you just cobra blow and its back up to lethal.

Cage arena makes the 2nd turn kill easy as opposed to doable. Dropping cage + a single foundation can turn to a turn 2 kill without too many problems...

Cage Arena can't work like this. I have noticed that there are cards that use the "(minimum x)" notation differently. Sometimes it is used to replace the verbose phrase "to a minimum of x" and sometimes it is used to replace "the minimum value of the variable is x." From what I know of Cage Arena is that it is the first of these cases the ability cannot reduce damage below 1. As was stated before, if there is no reduction from cage arena the there is no way that Hilde should get that bonus from it.

i could see it going either way. /em waits for a stamp...

If Cage Arena hits the minimum, it won't actually cause a reduction that Hilde can see or interact with. If the attack's damge goes from 1 to 1 or 0 to 0, no reduction took place.

This is a good ruling, but one that nonetheless goes against a lot of what happened at a recent regional and against a lot of what players understood to be the case.

Do only 'to a minimum of 1' effects negatively interact with Hilde and her enchance? i.e. could the attack be at damage zero or 1 for that matter, and amy's assistance 'reduce' it to a negative number becuase there is no minimum referenced, following that Hilde's responds with the reduction below zero?

I think the asnwer is yes and that Cage and all of the other reduce to minimum's are the ones that don't work with Hilde if the damage is already near or at the minimum.

- dut

Cage Arena and others that have the (minimum 1) or "to a minimum of 1", will reduce to one, but will not reduce after that point. If the attack is at 2 damage and 7 speed and you activate Cage Arena, you will get a reduction of 1. If the damage is 1 or less you will get no reduction.

Amy's Assistance on the other hand has no minimum. If the attack is at 2 damage and you reveal a 5 with Amy's, the attack will move to -3 damage. If your attack is at 0 damage and you reveal a 5, the attack will go to -5

They key part is the "(minimum 1)" notation. It needs to be explicitly stated somewhere that (minimum 1) is "to a minimum of 1" or we need to go back to put the slightly more wordy phrase on the cards.

dutpotd said:

ok how it works is for example.

base start point: 4 mid 4 damage

you enhance with cage arena,

attack becomes 4 mid 1 damage, reduction of 3 (out of a potential reduction of 4 because cage arena's ability reduces to a minimum of 1 damage)

you then enhance with amy's assistance, your opponent reveals a 5

attack is now 4 mid {negative} 3 damage (total damage reduction of 8)

if you enhance with Hilde the attack gets +16 speed and +16 damage.

HOWEVER lets just switch how you played your enahances

base start point: 4 mid 4

you enhance with amy's assistance your opponent reveals a 5

attack becomes 4 mid {negative} 1 damage (reduction of 5)

you then enhance with cage arena,

attack stays a 4 mid {negative} 1 because cage arena's ability states to a minimum of 1, and so it cannot reduce an attack below 1 damage, if the attack is 1 damage or less, cage arena gives a reduction of 0.

so if you now enhance with Hilde the attack gets +10 speed and +10 damage.

kiit said:

***Stamp***