What is the earliest that an attack card being played can be referenced as "your attack"?

Hata reads R: After you commit 1 or more foundations, your attack gets +1dmg and +1spd.

I play a 5 diff attack, check a 2. May i R with soul of LSS, R with Hata, (check now at 4), commit foundation to pass control check, R with Hata.

Or is Hata not able to give my attack a bonus until AFTER the cc is passed?

Gotta love Hata + chinese boxing though for the +2dmg/spd

Smazzurco said:

**Stamp**

Smazzurco said:

Note that you could give the attack +1 damage for the foundation committed to pass the control check.

aslum said:

No you cannot, because the card is not physically in the card pool to use the response, and has not been played yet.

I believe the earliest point at which you can trigger these kinds of attack-related Rs is "After an attack is played" -- so Manifest Destiny = +2/+2, for example.

Are you sure Antigoth? The current rules strongly suggest that as soon as you succeed the control check (possibly by committing foundations) then you've played the card. That would mean that committing the foundation(s) needed to pass the control check and passing the control check to have successfully played the card are the same trigger. This is how it worked before for Ibuki's foundation, and I see nothing in the rules that say otherwise. If it has changed, I'd be very curious to see the where and why.

aslum said:

If you're talking about Shadow art no it did not. Commiting cards to pass the check never gave a boost. Shinobi Tradition readying (ie the response AFTER you passed the check) did and any enhances that commited foundations triggered it but not commiting to pass the check itself. Well thats how it worked at worlds anyway.

aslum said:

Ok... here's how it works.

You attempt to play

Ichi No Tachi, it's a 3 difficulty card.

You are now in 8.1 of the AGR

8.1.1 Does not affect, move to 8.1.2, there are no other card in your card pool and Hata shares death. Move to 8.1.3

Ichi is now in the transitional zone. You check a 2.

You now move to 8.1.3.4 - Foundations must be committed.

So you've committed either LSS or a foundation. Attempt to respond with Hata - there is not a successful attack in your card pool to modify.

The Hata R interrupts before you declare the card successful.

You now move to 8.1.4 are there any additional costs that are required to be payed in addition to the control check?

8.1.5, not applicable, neither 8.1.6, now we're onto 8.1.7 which initiates the attack sequence.

The attack is now successfully played, allowing responses such as The Power of the Edge

Now that the card is successfully played, if you commit foundations, :Hata: may respond to buff the attack.

Imomon said:

Please note, we encourage all players to review the advanced game rules that are now downloadable from the support tab of the UFS main page.

There are interactions that have been ruled on previously, that have overturned/reversed/clairified.

There are a number of interactions that will be ruled differently at the worlds this year as opposed to how they were ruled last year as a result of the game rules.

ok you gotta explain Evil plans then. It gives "that attack +x damage" before the CC is made.

Is the only reason it works and James doesn''t is the wording of "this attack" vs "your attack"? Does the TR state somewhere that an attack is not "your's" until the cc is passed? (or something similar)

Thanks

Smazzurco said:

Please note Evil Plans specifies "After a Control check to modify an attack...THAT attack."

While Hata states "Your attack." Normally you cannot modify an attack until the attack is successfully played.

While the AGR does not state that is not "yours" until the CC is passed, please note it also does not say you are allowed to modify an attack before it's successfully played. Evil Plans falls under 1.1 the card functions outside of the normal parameters.

If you want to use Hata's R for the sake of playing it prior to the attack is successful, by all means go ahead. However 2.13.7A kicks in. You have no valid target, the effect fails to resolve successfully.

Please note that :Hata: won't give +1/+1 after committing Evil Plans, because of the same reasons stated above.

just to clarify what antigoth said cause he didn't say it completely clear. Evil plans says "after a control check for an attack.... THAT attack..." the THAT in "that attack" is not refering to the attack in the card pool its refering back to the attack already referenced in the effect thus giving it an effective target. Hata says "your attack" and although poorly worded as it is there is no attack yet for it to reffer to.