First I'd like to say I'm just ranting.

I've been running this list, total record with it 8-2. I like it because it's 4 X-wings all named and there's no crazy combo or list tweeking involved.

Porkins

Garven

Biggs

Tarn

So I went 7-0 with this list all good games, then I run into this list during the 3rd round of our Imdaar Alpha event:

Howlrunner swarm tactics

Black Sqdn. swarm tactics x2

Academy Pilot

Alpha Sqdn x2

No contest, I got chewed up really fast. 4 ships shooting at PS 8 with focus and 1 reroll Both tried to jocky for position but still ended up being a joust. Even thought I took out an Alpha first round I lost Biggs. From there I just got out shot at every turn.

I thought I learned my mistake. Normally I don't shoot at HowlRunner. Instead I take range 1 shots, but Howlrunner with swarm tactics should have been prime target no matter what.

So I won my fourth round and go to top 4. Same opponent for first elim round. In the beginning I try to make him follow me into the asteroids to break the formation. Left my tail x-wing Porkins at range 3, he gets picked off. I K-turn, got the swarm away from Howlrunner, all my shots are evaded at range 3, and I loose Biggs. Next round I one shot Howlrunner, but lost my 3rd x-wing can't remember which one. After that I conceded.

After loosing twice I asked him what he would have done if he were me and he didn't have anything to say.

He won the event with Imperials beating the the guy he lost to in round four. That guy went 5-1 in the tournament with this list:

Wedge Swarm Tactics

Tarn Mison R2-D6 Swarm Tactics

Rookie Pilot x2

I take it you disapprove of the PS chaining effect with Swarm tactics. I have to agree, it is brutal, and cheap (in more ways than one). It takes focus fire to a new level. Having lots of ships firing first is better than having less ships firing first.

It is something everyone is going to have to play around in the future. Must be time for Roark to start showing up in more lists. 4 ships shooting at 12, hmm.

TheBlueMax: how did he depoy the TIE:s?

Howlrunner swarm tactics

Black Sqdn. swarm tactics x2

Academy Pilot

Alpha Sqdn x2

There was quite a bit of chaining with swarm tactics at the weekend, the favourite one I saw though was roark, 2x greens and a prototype chaining alpha strike missiles. Don't think it worked that well though, which is a shame as would be nice for A's to be more competitive

I have a somewhat similar list but it has howl with PTL and a saber with PTL. It's is brutally efficient. I am 8-1 running it against rebel opponents. Howlrunner with interceptors is nearly always three hits if you have a focus. Throwing in int's makes it much more dangerous to waste bad shots on Howlrunner so it puts your opponent in a desperate spot of having 3 priority targets instead of one.

Swarm Tactics is good, but it's expensive. The key here would be to try to kill Howlrunner ASAP, but also to break up the swarm at all costs. Kite them through asteroids, block them with Tarn, anything you can do to separate even one or two ships. He spent an extra six points for three more of his ships to shoot before most other targets. That's rough, though.

Question, you said you usually don't shoot Howlrunner first. Why? Range 1 shots are nice, I know, but try to get her into Range 1. Rarely a situation where she should not be the first priority target, particularly in a swarm situation.

Swarm Tactics is good, but it's expensive. The key here would be to try to kill Howlrunner ASAP, but also to break up the swarm at all costs. Kite them through asteroids, block them with Tarn, anything you can do to separate even one or two ships. He spent an extra six points for three more of his ships to shoot before most other targets.

I don't understand why you think it is expensive. It is significantly cheaper than the 1 point per pilot skill, per ship, that everyone else in the game has to pay.

Swarm Tactics is good, but it's expensive. The key here would be to try to kill Howlrunner ASAP, but also to break up the swarm at all costs. Kite them through asteroids, block them with Tarn, anything you can do to separate even one or two ships. He spent an extra six points for three more of his ships to shoot before most other targets.

I don't understand why you think it is expensive. It is significantly cheaper than the 1 point per pilot skill, per ship, that everyone else in the game has to pay.

Fair point, but adding two points per ship to a ship that doesn't benefit from it itself can stack up. Do I think it's fairly priced, yes, but especially if you chain, it gets pricey. Good cards are often expensive, even if they are worth it. But, once you lose your high-PS, there is 2 points, 4 points, 6 points, etc down the drain. Easiest way to see how its expensive is to compare a 7-TIE swarm with Howlrunner to 5 Black Squadron Pilots and Howlrunner, all with Swarm Tactics. Compare the benefit of Swarm Tactics vs the benefit of an extra TIE. This is an extreme case, but the penalty/benefit scales up/down accordingly and respectively. It's cheap if you use one or two, its expensive if you use several. In this case and the case with the original list, once Howlrunner dies, a number of other ships lose their advantage and cost 2 points extra. So, it can GET expensive, with diminishing return for each time you buy it. And in either case, focusing Howlrunner (whom should be your primary target in any swarm situation), will rob the advantage, rendering several upgrade cards useless, as well as robbing the extreme hit average increase from her pilot ability.

A now howlrunner can decoy a BSP and then chain, to save a point!

Nvm - answered my own question.

A now howlrunner can decoy a BSP and then chain, to save a point!

Decoy is the same Price. What do you mean?

I could be wrong, but I think he's complaining more about how potent tie swarms in general, not just the fact that several had swarm tactics. And I have to agree, they are still the best squad in the game when flown at least reasonably well. I think the swarm tactics on the tie swarm doesn't make a huge difference, they are deadly either way. Even in games where I've used the same tactic, I've struggled just to kill one lowly academy.

But the TIE Swarm with Swarm Tactics lost to the Rebel build with Swarm Tactics.

Sure you're not just imposing your own opinions on someone else's post?

I can't tell you how glad I am nobody at my venue ran Swarms. I was the closest with 3 ties, a bounty hunter, and a Shuttle, but I can't call that a swarm with a straight face.

That said. The list was fantastic. Enough Hull to take one hell of a beating. Enough firepower to wipe out most low agility lists. And I didn't have to face the 4 squint list, but with the amount of Hull I was sporting and my Shuttle dodging shots like it was an Interceptor and flying like an X-Wing I probably could have taken it.

Not sure what the point of the original post is. At our Imdaar we had 26 players and 3 Swarms of various varieties show up (and yes, swarm tactics was at least one of them) 2 Made the Top 8 but none made top 4. The list of the day was Chewie + Opportunist [+Han Solo crew] variants.

Swarms are good but very beatable if you know how to attack them. Skilled players with them will win more than they lose, but Mistake #1 is trying to joust with them, especially without some sort of plan to disrupt their formation.

There are literally fifty posts/articles about handling swarms that can help you learn how to handle them.

As for the deployment question, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he deployed 3x2 like:

Alpha Academy Alpha

Black Howlrunner Black

Not sure what the point of the original post is. At our Imdaar we had 26 players and 3 Swarms of various varieties show up (and yes, swarm tactics was at least one of them) 2 Made the Top 8 but none made top 4. The list of the day was Chewie + Opportunist [+Han Solo crew] variants.

Swarms are good but very beatable if you know how to attack them. Skilled players with them will win more than they lose, but Mistake #1 is trying to joust with them, especially without some sort of plan to disrupt their formation.

There are literally fifty posts/articles about handling swarms that can help you learn how to handle them.

As for the deployment question, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he deployed 3x2 like:

Alpha Academy Alpha

Black Howlrunner Black

That's how I would have done it. Although a pair of ships armed with Assault Missiles and the card that allows the use of focus instead of a TL could rip the guts out of a TIE swarm.

Personally, I had looked at chaining Roark --> Blue Squadron, then Wedge --> Blue Squadron

PS 12/9/9/4 for shooting

deleted

Not sure what the point of the original post is. At our Imdaar we had 26 players and 3 Swarms of various varieties show up (and yes, swarm tactics was at least one of them) 2 Made the Top 8 but none made top 4. The list of the day was Chewie + Opportunist [+Han Solo crew] variants.

Swarms are good but very beatable if you know how to attack them. Skilled players with them will win more than they lose, but Mistake #1 is trying to joust with them, especially without some sort of plan to disrupt their formation.

There are literally fifty posts/articles about handling swarms that can help you learn how to handle them.

As for the deployment question, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he deployed 3x2 like:

Alpha Academy Alpha

Black Howlrunner Black

This is how he deployed.

Like I said the point of the post was to rant. I'll add that this guy is really good. The only person in our group that I haven't beaten, plus he has won the last 2 leagues we have had.