Hypothetical:

"Hello everyone, I am posting this list. It uses a familiar mechanic to start off, but then has this interesting variation which I feel is fun and also works, and sets it apart from all of the other (insert named build here) lists we see all the time."

Replies:

"It looks good, but i think you should change (blank) to (blank) so that it is exactly the same thing that we always see forever."

Really though, I mean come on… why do I feel like I see this happen so much?

It's basically the same thing you see with Magic: The Gathering - people try something and ask for an oppinion, others suggest what is best known to work well. What else can be expected? So why would you be surprised or irritated by this?

Not really. If you post a list, expect people to try to make it better. They're not looking at it through the same prism of uniqueness and/or personal flair that the hypothetical OP is.

I'd rather receive trite advice than none at all.

Or on occasion you find someone else's variation that is truly a masterpiece. ... and you never tell anyone on the dumb internet.

Luckily, the game seems to be broad enough that at least there are a decent amount of competitive lists

I'll start off by saying that I avoid posts like that because for some strange reason I find no interest in them. They seem all the same to me, and while experience helps a little, it seems largely driven by opinion until the rubber hits the road.

To answer your question I would say that people like consistency. We are creatures of habit, and all that jazz. It's hard to live in a theoretical world where there are so many variables. It's easy to draw from tried and true results that have real world testing already under the belt.

I think the reason I don't like those posts is that a new list is exactly that - new. Nobody has flown it, or against it. Sure, you can make thought experiments all day on how this works against that, but in the end you don't know until you actually try it. Personally I prefer to make a list and just go with it. Try it out myself. Who cares what some dude thinks about it? There is no perfect squadron. There will always be a counter to it. All you're asking for when posting list advice is for a long list of things people can come up with to counter it and a discussion/argument about how likely x is over y.

I'll start off by saying that I avoid posts like that because for some strange reason I find no interest in them. They seem all the same to me, and while experience helps a little, it seems largely driven by opinion until the rubber hits the road.

To answer your question I would say that people like consistency. We are creatures of habit, and all that jazz. It's hard to live in a theoretical world where there are so many variables. It's easy to draw from tried and true results that have real world testing already under the belt.

I think the reason I don't like those posts is that a new list is exactly that - new. Nobody has flown it, or against it. Sure, you can make thought experiments all day on how this works against that, but in the end you don't know until you actually try it. Personally I prefer to make a list and just go with it. Try it out myself. Who cares what some dude thinks about it? There is no perfect squadron. There will always be a counter to it. All you're asking for when posting list advice is for a long list of things people can come up with to counter it and a discussion/argument about how likely x is over y.

I don't think that's quite true. That does end up happening a lot, and that's kind of the rock-paper-scissors nature of this game. But when people post lists, I don't think that's what they're asking for.

People might see the list, like it, and give it a few plays. I often see feedback saying they ran either the same list or one similar and offer their experience with it.

Though I think the real reason most people post lists is so they can do something with the lists they create. I create probably around 5 lists a day but play once or twice a week. That's a lot of wasted potential, maybe the internet will do something with it.

That's a very good point Sekac. We lovers of this game make so many lists because this stuff is in our blood, but we can only play so many of them.

I just get really irked when someone posts a list that is trying to be interesting or give a ship or upgrade a new shine, only to have someone come in and go "no what you should do is just gut it and throw in a couple of PtL Royal Guards" instead of looking at the list and going "hmm, ok so that is the flair this person is going for…"

Funny as when I first got into this game I didn't have any pieces. The last store championship was the following weekend.

I met someone who was willing to share his collection while mine was still shipping.

I wanted to run;

28 - Turr Phennir w/ Push the Limit
20 - Howlrunner w/ Expert Handling
24 - Saber Sqaudtron Pilot w/ Push the Limit
15 - Black Squadron Pilot w/ Draw Their Fire
12 - Academy Pilot

Granted I misunderstood Expert Handling but this list looks very familiar to the recent winning Interceptor swarm. I even wanted to fly it together figuring Howl would be the main target and Turr could break off after the initial merge.

But everyone convinced me it was a bad idea so I changed to a Biggs list.

Funny how that happens.

I get what you're saying. Sometimes when I ask for advice to improve a list I built as a variation of common popular lists I get replies that tell me to revert to the latter. I don't blame ppl for it but its just not the advice I'm looking for when my intention is to have something different from what is already popular. Up till now I have never flown the Death Star Trench Trios, Vanilla Tie Swarms, Han Shoots First, Triple Firesparys or Rebel Convoy lists although I know they've been proven to be effective. Building original lists is just a personal preference of mine.

You can choose not to read those topics. If discussing possible list ideas with the community isn't fun for you, than don't read those posts. I beg you to remember that there is widely varying skill level and experience on these forums as new members get interested all the time. They should be afforded the opportunity to catch up on the meta just like you were at one point and time. Anyway, not to hate on it too much, just didn't think you were considering the fact that some players haven't ever heard of Biggs walks the Daggs before because they're new!

I get what you're saying. Sometimes when I ask for advice to improve a list I built as a variation of common popular lists I get replies that tell me to revert to the latter. I don't blame ppl for it but its just not the advice I'm looking for when my intention is to have something different from what is already popular. Up till now I have never flown the Death Star Trench Trios, Vanilla Tie Swarms, Han Shoots First, Triple Firesparys or Rebel Convoy lists although I know they've been proven to be effective. Building original lists is just a personal preference of mine.

YES! THIS! EXACTLY!

just didn't think you were considering the fact that some players haven't ever heard of Biggs walks the Daggs before

I have never heard of it being called that...

just didn't think you were considering the fact that some players haven't ever heard of Biggs walks the Daggs before

I have never heard of it being called that...

Neither have I, but it makes a whole lot more sense that way. I never understood Biggs walks the Dogs. It doesn't really tell you what's in the list.

just didn't think you were considering the fact that some players haven't ever heard of Biggs walks the Daggs before

I have never heard of it being called that...

Neither have I, but it makes a whole lot more sense that way. I never understood Biggs walks the Dogs. It doesn't really tell you what's in the list.

Me too. I never knew what that name meant until now.

Oh... I've heard both variations... Actually maybe not, I just thought that's what Paul was going for since they'll be ahead of Biggs.

...

Really though, I mean come on… why do I feel like I see this happen so much?

Because not every one plays to have fun.

...

Really though, I mean come on… why do I feel like I see this happen so much?

Because not every one plays to have fun.

Ahhh… right, right. I keep forgetting that.

With the Imdaar tourney that just happened, I'm incredibly annoyed at the giant spam of lists being proposed. I get it, it's fine to ask for advice. But seriously, that's been half the threads posted lately. I miss repaint threads.

I think...

...that we need more subforums. A Scenario Design, List Feedback and Repaints forum.

I agree that it's kind of a jerk move to tell someone that asked how to make a list built around a specific theme or strategy "Dont use the theme or strategy you specifically said you want to use" to be not only unhelpful, but flat out disrespectful. I mean, I haven't seen it happen but I wouldn't be surprised if someone posted an action economy list featuring Lando and garven and had people tell them to drop Garven to a rookie and swap Lando for Han.

I try to offer minimal advice, and keep the squad close to the author's original idea as much as possible to avoid the situation being discussed.

I do feel the same way about this topic, and almost made a topic on my own a few times in the past but never did. What bothers me most though, is if someone has a squad decided, and just want to decide one final upgrade or something and doesn't want any other changes, and people still give them all these new squad ideas anyways instead of just answering their question.

Ok, really. So you take a build (likely one you've seen do well) make a variation of it, and then ask to improve it? Then you are upset if someone reverts you back to the original build, that was doing well?

I think the point is that people are looking for feedback on the list they posted. They're not looking for a netdeck.

Yeah, I agree with the OP; sometimes it can be annoying. For the most part I have had good fortune with my list threads, except for the Imdaar list thread where I specifically stated I wanted to run a MODIFIED Baron's focus list (with Krassis and an RG instead of the BH + Fel) and was told: "drop Krassis to a BH and upgrade the RG to Fel." O_o

Yeah, I agree with the OP; sometimes it can be annoying. For the most part I have had good fortune with my list threads, except for the Imdaar list thread where I specifically stated I wanted to run a MODIFIED Baron's focus list (with Krassis and an RG instead of the BH + Fel) and was told: "drop Krassis to a BH and upgrade the RG to Fel." O_o

Yeah sometimes advice comes from left field and totally guts the original idea, but it's nothing to be annoyed by. Just disregard advice that doesn't suit your style. No harm, no foul.