I'm new to FFG games...invested heavily in DOW ( prior to FFG taking over) Battlelore, MM44 and such and was wanting to expand into games that my 2 teenage boys (13-11) would like. They have lost interest in the basic battlefield scenerios however still like playing games with me every so often. The 13 yr old likes to play the most, but likes the multi player games like Pirates Cove and Shadows over Camelot,Ticket to Ride, which his younger brother just doesn't get into, unless he is really bored......

I have been doing alot of reading on BGG about Talisman and Runebound and can't really decide which game will take us into Descent which is my ultimate goal...hopefully, if they stay interested.

I'm leaning more towards Runebound because of all the expansions that are available to keep it fresh, however most of what I read leans towards Talisman....

Since they are both FFG games I understand they are top quality like DOW, however I don't want to invest in another expensive game just to have it shelved because it doesn't really satisfy a couple of teenagers interest. And to reiterate I would personally like Descent but to hand over another 70-80 dollars is a really hard decision.

Any advice....both postive/negative would be most helpful and most appreciated.

Looking forward to a response.

Regards,

Tsu

I would also go with Runebound if your end goal is Descent. Mainly because the two games share the same background world and the same heroes. The fact that your kids can play the same character in each might help them make the transition, plus you get a backup set of figs in case of any accidents. Runebound does have a lot of expansions, but they really aren't necessary. You can buy them slowly over time, so when your kids get bored of one, you can move on to another.

How do your kids feel about PvP? By which I mean direct player against player interaction in a board game? If they like poking one another now and then, Talisman probably provides more opportunity for that. If they don't, Runebound allows them to do their own thing more often than not.

The question of too many expansions isn't really much of a factor, IMHO. Talisman doesn't have as many expansions yet, but it will soon enough. Older editions of Talisman have been expansion happy and FFG is known for making lots of expansions so I really don't see them holding back on that count.

Both games are equally entertaining and have similar (though not identical) play styles. Talisman feels more like a traditional board game, I think, if that makes a difference to you. And, as I mentioned, it generally provides more opportunities for players to attack one another, which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending.

Steve-O,

Thanks for the response, I truly appreciate the feedback.

"Steve-O" - How do your kids feel about PvP? By which I mean direct player against player interaction in a board game? If they like poking one another now and then, Talisman probably provides more opportunity for that. If they don't, Runebound allows them to do their own thing more often than not.

The PvP can be an issue....well honestly, most of the time it's an issue....they are so close in age that they tend to get into a scrap or two over just about anything trivial, so maybe a game that doesn't pin one against the other is probably the best choice........we play a simple card game called treasures and traps that is solely PvP, by the end of the end of the game I've broken up several fights and a couple of attempted murders. Why they enjoy it so much is beyond me.....

I didn't mentioned it prior, but the true goal (besides my interest in getting into Descent) is to get them off of the online PC shooter games to come and sit with their old man to allow me some time before they are gone chasing girls......so truthfully this is more for me. Getting sentimental, sorry........

Another concern is replayability and my wife will second that motion, many times I've had to rescue one of my games off of the garage sale table because she's complained that I've spent "all that money for such an expensive game that you guys don't play anymore", she should be able to sell it........ so replayability is very important.

Taking to much space to say that its still a tough decision, but your feedback is certainly appreciated and helps immensely, thank you!

Regards,

Tsu

Tsu,

Having both Talisman and Runebound, and having an eight-year-old son, I can honestly say that they offer two different experiences of practically the same fantasy genre. I'm right there with Steve-O in that Talisman feels more like a board game. You're limited in your movement around a "Monopolyesque" board, but the card play and the simplicity make for an entertaining evening. Talisman is still one of the most accessible, user-friendly fantasy board games, and has been for several decades.

However, Runebound gets a slightly quicker nod from me because of the self-contained fantasy RPG campaign element, or to put it simply, the map board. It feels more like the experience (exploration of a continent, leveling up, and gaining advantages/disadvantages from encounters that you take with you to the endgame) I remember from the campaign RPG adventures from my youth, but with a much shorter playing time. Having also played a ton of dungeon-bashing board games such as Hero Quest and Warhammer Quest, I can also say that Descent/Runebound is the way to go for a visual gaming experience ripe with both replay ability and depth.

Of course, I do have both of the games in question, so I guess I promote owning both. My son likes both, as well, and he also loves Memoir '44.

ss

SS,

Thanks for the additional information, the light entertainment aspect of Talisman is tempting, but I think a game that will require a little more thought meets more to there desire.

The MM44 and Battlelore series I so heavily invested in didn't satisfy their adventurous minds, the mere fact that they needed an ongoing back story for each scenerio to ignite their curiosity just wasn't there. BattleLore still holds interest only for the lore play that is offered, otherwise I think it would probably go the way of MM44.

I believe Runebound will fill this nitch, as long as it will continue to offer a story filled with adventure and curiosity.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, its most appreciated.

Regards,

Tsu

From everything you've been saying, it sounds like Runebound is definitely the one you want. PvP is possible, but you have to go out of your way to do it most of the time, so the general air of cooperation is good. It has about a million little card expansions which are cheap and add to replayability in a big way, and it shares fluff with Descent to give you a foot in the door there.

I can understand your desire to spend time with your kids and get them away from the computer once in a while. I've always been an avid computer gamer and it sometimes amazes me that my parents managed to edge in so much "character building" as my mom used to say. I'm thankful they did, though. I look at people whose parents didn't care so much about interacting with them and were happy to let the computer or TV do the babysitting and I wonder how these people manage to stay afloat in society now. Seriously. Have no fear of criticism, your intentions are noble. =)

Steve-O

Thanks again for the response:

You are right in that we have decided to go with Runebound and I would like to add one expansion as well.

Per your comment: ( Steve-O) " It has about a million little card expansions which are cheap and add to replayability in a big way, and it shares fluff with Descent to give you a foot in the door there".

Which expansion would you most recommend? If they are the card expansions then a couple would be the plan, if its a big box then obviously just one.

(Steve-O) I can understand your desire to spend time with your kids and get them away from the computer once in a while. I've always been an avid computer gamer and it sometimes amazes me that my parents managed to edge in so much "character building" as my mom used to say. I'm thankful they did, though. I look at people whose parents didn't care so much about interacting with them and were happy to let the computer or TV do the babysitting and I wonder how these people manage to stay afloat in society now. Seriously. Have no fear of criticism, your intentions are noble. =) Mr.Steve-O, thank you very much for your kind words, I appreciate it that others recognize how important this is to me.

I look forward to your reply.

Best Regards,

Tsu

Hi Tsunami,

I play with my 7, 10 & 12 year old boys each of those games : Talisman, Runebound & Descent. They love them all, but the current favorite is Descent, so why not get straight into it ? It definitely isn't too complicated for younger kids, as my 7 year old has a very good understanding of the rules (and he doesn't even read english...).

We bought Runebound after playing Talisman a lot, and it does offer a bit more interesting and challenging game at the moment. May be just that it's new to us.

But my message is : You cannot wrong with any of those, and at least I spend a lot of great time with my sons with all of them. We have almost always one of those games going on.

Kalle,

Thanks for responding.....the hold up on Descent is two-fold.....cost and play time.......I can foot the cost, but sliding past my wife aka-- sentry guard of expenses--is one minor road block...the other is the amount of time it takes to play.....visiting our local gaming store and asking about the game, there response is...."its a really good game, it just takes to long to set up and play through....no one really wants to spend the time".

So the question....is it truly a long game 3+ hours min....or is it the gaming group whining.....

Thanks again for replying.

Regards,

Tsu

Hi,

Yes, Descent is a long game. I've played it with friends, and then it has taken about 8-10 hours to play on one session, with dinner and coffee breaks and some general chat. With the kids it takes something like one or two weekends and some weekdays, with game sessions of about one-two hours every once in a while. So if You cannot leave the game to some safe place in between playing sessions, then it may be hard to play it with kids. There are some shorter introductory scenarios in the FFG web site, that should be able to finish in two hours once You master the rules. But the really interesting scenarios are long. Plus it takes a while to arrange the game, equip the heros etc. But if You fancy role playing games and want a really immersing game, this is the best there is that I know. I have all the expansions, and have also played the really long campaign version, so I'm sold...

I usually have a wargame (Tide of Iron, Warhammer fantasy or 40k) going on in garage plus a board game going on in our living room. We seldom finish Runebound or Talisman on one sitting either. My wife isn't interested in games at all, but fortunately to us she lets us have a game going on in the living room, which cannot be taken for granted... Still, it's good to have different kinds of board games (even if we are mostly interested in the fantasy genre), while we really like Descent, after a Descent playing session it's much more fun to play Talisman or Runebound than another session of Descent.

Kalle

(Kalle): With the kids it takes something like one or two weekends and some weekdays, with game sessions of about one-two hours every once in a while.

We could do that, however both my boys are alot like me....once its started, we have a hard time coming away until we see it through......still,......a fun idea....is the continuation of Descent easily picked up where we left off?

And to your note that even Runebound takes a few hours....... I'm guessing Runebound isn't something we start an hour or two before they go to bed?

Thanks for taking so much time to answer my questions, decision's for me are usually easily made...why I'm on the fence with this decision is even frustrating to me........

Best regards,

Tsu

Tsunami said:

For big box expansions, the one I hear the most good reviews about is Sands of Al-Kalim. That's also the only big box expansion I currently own myself. Frozen Wastes is relatively new but it seems to meeting with good initial reactions. I don't really know much about the others. I hear Midnight radically changes the game (they all make some big switch ups, but that one goes all out.)

For the little expansions, once again I have only scratched the surface, but I would reccomend starting with one or two of the "Items and Allies" expansions. Add new gear and allies and so on. There are also "Challenge Card" expansion which add new events and monsters to fight and "Adventure Variant" expansions which you probably want to hold off on until you're looking to change up the gameplay a little. Lastly there are "Class deck" expansions, which give you the ability to modify your hero's abilities to some extent. Personally I don't like the looks of those for two reasons: 1) they are primarily aimed at increasing PvP in the game (which IMHO I don't want, but others may feel differently) and 2) in order to use them, EACH PLAYER needs to have one of these Class Decks. Which means, for the people I usually play with, I'd have to pick up 4 or 5 of them before I could use them at all.

In response to Descent's play time, it's true that it takes a long time. Me and my friends can usually finish a dungeon (of the basic game) in about 4 hours, but we've also mastered the art of moving quickly. The heroes don't stop to admire the scenery and there's relatively little idle chat when we play. Our first few games defnintely got called on time long before a victory was determined. With the Road to Legend expansion, an advanced campaign was introduced which made the game much longer (!) but also more fun for our group. The big advantage of that one is the ability to "save your game" as RtL is definitely not intended to be finished in only one sitting.

All,

Just wanted to post a quick thank you for all the info everyone provided for Decisions.....Decisions.

I think it was clear after a few responses that Runebound won out on the final purchasing decision.

To date we have played 4 games......although we ran out of time on all of them,the game has been a hit. Even the neighborhood friend of my 12 yr old left the house saying how much fun he had.....

My 14 yr old actually requested to play it the other day, and was insisting that we stay up to finish, however after the 4th hour it was pretty well decided that we wouldn't be able to finish it until the next day. To me that was money well spent......

We have painted 6 of the characters and plan on completing them in the next few days......

Once again, thanks to Steve-O, Kalle and Silent Shadow for their advice, guidance and thoughts.

Now on to Descent.......eventually.......hopefully....

Regards,

Tsu

Just wanted to put my two cents in... Recently picked up Frozen Wastes and my friends and I really enjoyed it, I give a big two thumbs up. Of course, since I live in Alaska, the theme was a winner from the start. They also have an alternate leveling up formula that seems to work really well in the Rulebook. Basically, you pay 1 xp for the first advance, 2 for the second, three for the third and so on. You equalize with the amount of exp for a 4/lvl game at 7 advances, but it makes it less frustrating leveling at the beginning and more difficult towards the end, preventing the one player who has a string of good luck from getting to the high stuff early on and shooting way ahead of everybody else to dominate the game.

the best expansions for runebound are definitelyth e class decks. but they need a bit of runebound experience and are no good deal in the beginning. big boxes midnight is better then the basic game, but, again, it needs game experience.

so i would go for island of dread after the basic game, just to notice that runebound has 5 maps to playwith.