Sisters of Battle in the Spinward Front

By venkelos, in Only War

So, here's one of those potentially pointless-seeming questions I can be good for, from time to time, but here we go. I am rather fond of the Sisters of Battle; their codex, or what passes for it (part of a special list for other groups --> a codex with other stuff lumped into it --> a split up thing in two issues of the WD mag --> on online ebook that numerous people seemed to dislike; did I miss any?) isn't always amazing, but the group I am rather fond of. Now, let me state right here, this is NOT a thread where I am asking "How do you make the SoB in OW rules, so i can use them as a regiment-variant?" First, I'm NOT so keen on that idea, and second, many others have already posted on such things, back in the day. Granted, Shield of Humanity might have been a good place for them to show up, and some of their gear, at least a bit, is referenced in that book, finally, but that's not what i want.

What I am asking for, however, is some info on possible ways to use them in support roles, as NPCs, or another fixture of the environment the Guardsmen might appear in. I have looked through codexes for over a decade, and read numerous, occasionally ham-fisted excuses for why Army A MIGHT battle Army B, when Army A is mostly constructed to only fight Army C(haos Daemons) well, but here I'm trying to figure, are there many things that might attract a decent quantity/assortment of Adepta Sororitas forces to the Spinward Front. They don't necessarily fight the same things as the IG, or in the same ways, but, much like not-so-cheesy Space Marines, I would like to be able to have them figure into stuff, even if only in passing. I've often complained that the IG could benefit from more overspecialized, over-equipped forces, and they don't use them, but the Sisters fill some of those roles.

With primarily Orks, DEldar, and evil Secessionists filling the enemy ranks, what might some Adepta Sororitas be doing there, in force, that IG might get to help, support, clean up after, or maybe even be bailed out by them? How has anyone who has used them in their setting done so? Or, are they simply not in the SF, for the most part? Do their myriad rogue psyker/traitors to the Creed-hunting operations keep them busy elsewhere?

Again, I don't really want them as player options, nor to overshadow the venerable Guard, but I do kind of lile the iconic way that they might appear, and possibly strengthen the resolve of the troops. Are they inspiring because of their Faith, their devotion to him, or do the soldiers in question just like a powerful woman in heavy uniform? No matter, but they could be a very moving, inspiring addition to the scene.

Thanks for any ideas, and have a good one, please.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about the sisters of battle, but here goes nothing:

You could always use sisters Hospitaller. They can lend their assistance to the Imperial Guard, especially if one of the squad members were to end up critically wounded. They might also be interested in the increasing numbers of chaos warbands, or 'the order' might actually be a renegade order of the sisters of battle. In addition you do get the occasional sister who goes on a form of penal pilgrimage who could reasonably appear in some of the warzones of the Spinward Front.

That's just some ideas of the top of my head. Hope that helps.

Edited by Drath

Since spinward front is mostly about seccessionist Severan Dominate, and Brides of the Emperor are usually associated with Ecclesiarchy and Ordo Hereticus i can easily imagine a few ways to introduce them.

Consider the following:

- Innocence proves nothing. When the major said we're going to redeploy somewhere for combined ops with sisters of battle you, having not seen a woman for 2 years now, believed it to be a good thing. But you got yourself an archbishop with unhealthy fire in his eyes for operation commander, zealots who value your life only slightly more than that of an enemy for brothers-in-arms and mass murder of barely armed civilian population of a city with flamethrowers for mission objectives. This is not the war you are used to and there is more and more evidence that whole operation is either a huge mistake or deliberate set up made by some heretic trying to make his bloody sacrifice and frame you

- Not a step back. Welcome to the warzone where imperial troops are not in a good shape - seccessionists are on the offensive, and to keep the frontline stable you have to abandon some territories. Problem is, the sacred shrine protected by small force of Sororitas is either going to be abandoned or surrounded and cut off by advancing enemy troops. Will you follow your orders from high command or stay with the sisters and give your fate in the hands of the Emperor? The commissar and regimental commander both hinted that they will not punish anyone for martyrdom in the name of the Creed - you will simply be listed as KIA as you stay behind for your last stand.

- Your innermost apocalypse. When severan dominate declared its independence witch-hunt and overall control over psykers ceased to exist as rebels had no resources for that and foolishly believed this to be unimportant. Now, as you make planetfall on one of the Severan-controlled worlds you see that actually severans are desperately fighting back new, real masters of this world - rogue psykers and witches, whose collective unbound powers tear reality apart, cause random phenomena, expose more and more people to raw warp energies waking their own latent psychic abilities and - worst of all - become vessels for sanity-shattering nightmares made manifest. The situation is dire, the fighting is beyond anything even the Spinward Front veterans bore witness to, dark rumors, corruption and madness begin to spread even among your fellow comrades. And like a little ray of light amidst insanity and darkness, Sisters of Battle deploy in this Emperor-forsaken theater of operations to be a guiding light for confused, a healing hand for injured and a merciless scourge for the tainted.

The Spinward Front is an odd place for a Sister as the Severan Dominate is anti-Imperium and not anti-Emperor. I can actually see the Sisters as some sort of damper faction between the Imperium and the Dominate, actively trying to save the misguided secessionists and bring them some sort of salvation through faith, while also protecting their vulnerable souls from the predations of Chaos. They can even actively sabotage both Imperial and Dominate battle plans, taking control over troops from both sides to fight a common enemy (like Orks or Dark Eldar).

There are probably lots of Famulus and Hospitaler Sisters furthering this agenda, and the Militant Sisters can be their proxies on the battlefield.

Since spinward front is mostly about seccessionist Severan Dominate, and Brides of the Emperor are usually associated with Ecclesiarchy and Ordo Hereticus i can easily imagine a few ways to introduce them.

Consider the following:

- Innocence proves nothing. When the major said we're going to redeploy somewhere for combined ops with sisters of battle you, having not seen a woman for 2 years now, believed it to be a good thing. But you got yourself an archbishop with unhealthy fire in his eyes for operation commander, zealots who value your life only slightly more than that of an enemy for brothers-in-arms and mass murder of barely armed civilian population of a city with flamethrowers for mission objectives. This is not the war you are used to and there is more and more evidence that whole operation is either a huge mistake or deliberate set up made by some heretic trying to make his bloody sacrifice and frame you

- Not a step back. Welcome to the warzone where imperial troops are not in a good shape - seccessionists are on the offensive, and to keep the frontline stable you have to abandon some territories. Problem is, the sacred shrine protected by small force of Sororitas is either going to be abandoned or surrounded and cut off by advancing enemy troops. Will you follow your orders from high command or stay with the sisters and give your fate in the hands of the Emperor? The commissar and regimental commander both hinted that they will not punish anyone for martyrdom in the name of the Creed - you will simply be listed as KIA as you stay behind for your last stand.

- Your innermost apocalypse. When severan dominate declared its independence witch-hunt and overall control over psykers ceased to exist as rebels had no resources for that and foolishly believed this to be unimportant. Now, as you make planetfall on one of the Severan-controlled worlds you see that actually severans are desperately fighting back new, real masters of this world - rogue psykers and witches, whose collective unbound powers tear reality apart, cause random phenomena, expose more and more people to raw warp energies waking their own latent psychic abilities and - worst of all - become vessels for sanity-shattering nightmares made manifest. The situation is dire, the fighting is beyond anything even the Spinward Front veterans bore witness to, dark rumors, corruption and madness begin to spread even among your fellow comrades. And like a little ray of light amidst insanity and darkness, Sisters of Battle deploy in this Emperor-forsaken theater of operations to be a guiding light for confused, a healing hand for injured and a merciless scourge for the tainted.

Some of these sound good, but part of my plight here would be if i want the Sororitas to appear "good", and on the same side as the players. Having them show up to roast a city that MIGHT not need it, and possibly forcing the players to assist, or have to fight back...

The other two, I like a bit more. Not sure if, if you survived, you could return to your regiment, and not be in disobedience of orders, but maybe. Perhaps a wandering Inquisitor could save the bacon, or some such. For the last one, where psykers now rule, that I rather like.

The Spinward Front is an odd place for a Sister as the Severan Dominate is anti-Imperium and not anti-Emperor. I can actually see the Sisters as some sort of damper faction between the Imperium and the Dominate, actively trying to save the misguided secessionists and bring them some sort of salvation through faith, while also protecting their vulnerable souls from the predations of Chaos. They can even actively sabotage both Imperial and Dominate battle plans, taking control over troops from both sides to fight a common enemy (like Orks or Dark Eldar).

There are probably lots of Famulus and Hospitaler Sisters furthering this agenda, and the Militant Sisters can be their proxies on the battlefield.

I can see some of that, but the Imperium IS the Emperor, and it is His instrument, so I am not sure that they would readily draw a difference between anti-Imperium and anti-Emperor, as He forged the Imperium, and said it was right.

The Adepta Sororitas, whilst not a particularly large organisation, are involved in almost any level of Imperial organisation. Sisters Hospitaller and Dialogous can provide valuable support for an Imperial Guard Battlegroup by setting up a field hospital or using their linguistic skills to act as translators between regiments with very different accents, respectively. Sisters of the Orders Pronatus might be tasked with securing an important relic or piece of technology, whilst lone Sisters Sabine act as deep cover infiltrators preparing newly discovered human worlds for the arrival of an Imperial liberation fleet.
As the topic of this thread is about the Sisters Militant, however, I'll try to throw in a few thoughts on that subject. Keep in mind the following is merely my interpretation of the setting, as shaped by GW's original material rather than FFG's fluff.
The Orders Militant are divided into six Major Orders and an undefined number of Minor ones. The latter are small convents, usually a mere hundred Sisters strong, whose activities are limited to a specific location, and often a specific purpose for which this unit originally split off from the Major Order it originated in. These bases are scattered throughout the Imperium, which also makes them an ideal force for many Inquisitors seeking support from a small but reliable band of shock troops to exterminate a freshly unveiled threat before it grows bigger. Their daily duties, however, are focused on relatively unspectacular tasks such as patrolling pilgrim routes, guarding important holy sites, conducting purity sweeps, or accompanying Ecclesiarchy officials through potentially hostile territory.
The Major Orders, on the other hand, are based primarily at the two Primary Convents on Terra and Ophelia VII. With each Order numbering thousands of Battle Sisters and possessing their own means of transportation, they are capable of acting as a fully sized force in their own right, and regularly go to war within the Imperium and beyond, fighting heretics, traitors and aliens alone or alongside the Frateris Militia, the Space Marines and, of course, the Imperial Guard when participating in a War of Faith or an Imperial Crusade.
"Heretics take many forms. Most are lost humans, whose weak minds have been corrupted by the manifold temptations of a dark and sinister galaxy. None are immune - planetary governors, Imperial Guard Commanders and even whole Space Marine Chapters have been declared heretic and been exterminated as such by the Sisters of Battle. Yet there is no stricture within the Ecclesiarchy that heresy is a purely human crime. Aliens can also be sanctioned as heretics - that the creed against which they transgress is not their own is of no account. Nevermore so is this true than of the alien who chances his army against the Emperor's Will by inciting rebellion, subverting the will of Imperial subjects, or invading by force. Genesis matters naught - all heretics are damned, and all must be purged with fire, lest their apostasy gather a following."
- White Dwarf #382
During such operations, the Sisters of Battle tend to form a highly disciplined core of well armed and armoured warriors around which other fighters may rally; a bastion of calm determination in the midst of the chaos of the battlefield. To soldiers faithful to the Imperial Creed, their focus and passion serves as inspiration, and indeed many Sisters Superior may take it upon themselves to raise morale by addressing nearby troops with citations from holy scripture or improvised oration.
The downside of their presence is that, depending on the personality of an Order's officers, the Sisters Militant may hold their fellow Imperial warriors to expectations that quite simply transcend a humble Guardsman's spirituality. Isolated from the outside world and living a life of penitence and devotion, some Sisters may find it difficult to not hold other human beings to the same high standard of conduct that dominates a Sororitas convent. The Sisters of Battle lack the interaction of their brethren in the Orders Hospitaller and Dialogous, and so it is up to the squad leaders' personal experience as to whether any such "reality clash" issues of a joint operation can be foreseen, and how to best avoid them.
I am no expert on the Spinward Front, but I have read about the Severan Dominate, and this sounds like a good opportunity for a GM interested in inter-force dynamics to insert a Sororitas presence. The worlds of the Dominate all owe a tithe to the Ecclesiarchy, and as far as I know this is no longer being paid, which might trigger anything from a simple visit of a Ministorum Envoy with a Sororitas bodyguard in an attempt to "remind" the wayward Governor of his duties to the Immortal Emperor, to a full-scale strike force spearheading a War of Faith to cast down the traitor and re-establish Imperial control. After all, loyalty and devotion to one's betters are part of the Imperial Creed, so breaking with the High Lords (one of which is the Ecclesiarch himself) does constitute an act of heresy.
It is also worth pointing out that by Imperial decree, all regiments and capital ships are required to include at least one Ecclesiarchal Confessor to provide spiritual guidance for the troops. In some cases, a Confessor's influence on the commanding officer may extend so far that an entire regiment may temporarily go "rogue" by seconding itself to a force of Battle Sisters in order to fight in a War of Faith, circumventing the fleet ban by boarding vessels provided by the Ecclesiarchy - either the fast if undergunned corvettes of the Major Orders Militant, or the vast cruisers of indebted/penitent Rogue Traders.
As you can see, there are a whole lot of options to insert a Sororitas presence into an Imperial Guard campaign, the type of encounter ranging from anything between fanatical enemies to allied thugs to brothers (or rather, sisters) in arms. They may meet once on the battlefield, or they may spend an entire campaign side by side. It all depends on which way you want to spin this. I can only hope the above provides some food for thought that eventually leads to full ideas and a fun game. :)

Brides of the Emperor

Daughters

/nitpick :P

Edited by Lynata

Daughters

As millenia pass me by, I seem to forgot their renaming after Vandire's defeat, so please forgive me. Also, check out how Blood of Martyrs chapter III is named. ;)

Some of these sound good, but part of my plight here would be if i want the Sororitas to appear "good", and on the same side as the players. Having them show up to roast a city that MIGHT not need it, and possibly forcing the players to assist, or have to fight back...

The other two, I like a bit more. Not sure if, if you survived, you could return to your regiment, and not be in disobedience of orders, but maybe. Perhaps a wandering Inquisitor could save the bacon, or some such. For the last one, where psykers now rule, that I rather like.

What is the problem? Try finding battle sisters who have reason behind faith to stop the bloodshed (proofs of heretical ritual linked to someone (maybe even Sister's own leadership?) about to take place can be helpful). Have faith in the emperor, for He provides - make one of the sisters acend to Living Sainthood right in front of your eyes. Or, if you are more of a pragmatic kind of GM, have your regimental commander screw the orders and come back to assist you after listening enemy vox-frequencies (filled with unbelief as a tiny shrine just won't surrender no matter the odds) for a while - Only War is a game of honour and camaraderie, after all.

An imperial guardsman has to be cunning and resourceful if he wishes to survive, same goes for both players and GMs.

I think the most obvious excuse for the Sisters of Battle to show up on the Spinward Front would be to retrieve Ecclesiarchal relics from war zones. The OW PCs would be part of the push into enemy territory that allows the Sisters to reach their objective location.

Also, since they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (-or has that fluff been screwed up...?), they could be sent on just about any kind of mission by an O.H. Inquisitor; say, eliminate a Cardinal loyal to the Severin Dominate who has been declared 'Excommunicate Traitoris' (-even if the declaration was more politically than spiritually motivated...). In that case, the PCs could be part of an operation to locate the 'apostate' in some possible hiding spots, and call in the SoBs when they find his (heavily defended) hide-out.

As millenia pass me by, I seem to forgot their renaming after Vandire's defeat, so please forgive me. Also, check out how Blood of Martyrs chapter III is named. ;)

No! Report to sublevel 14 for immediate arco-flagellation. :P

... not much of a fan of the BoM book, sorry. ;)

I do like your "not a step back" suggestion, by the way. And I would think they'd allow you to return to the regiment, if it has already been hinted at that they'd allow you to go martyr yourself in violation of orders. Just change the KIA to MIA. When retreating from a warzone, soldiers may occasionally get cut off from their comrades and left behind. Stuff like that happens, right? ;)

Having possibly been the one man who tipped the scales and allowed the besieged Sisters to prevail might earn you a lot of grudging respect from the Commissar, and (possibly unwanted) public praise from the regiment's Confessor.

Also, that "last stand" thingie reminds me of a cool short story I've read in Citadel Journal some time ago, though the situation was somewhat inverted.

Also, since they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (-or has that fluff been screwed up...?), they could be sent on just about any kind of mission by an O.H. Inquisitor; say, eliminate a Cardinal loyal to the Severin Dominate who has been declared 'Excommunicate Traitoris' (-even if the declaration was more politically than spiritually motivated...). In that case, the PCs could be part of an operation to locate the 'apostate' in some possible hiding spots, and call in the SoBs when they find his (heavily defended) hide-out.

The official link to the Ordo Hereticus seems to have been severed in 6th Edition - but they still police the Ecclesiarchy, so they wouldn't need an Inquisitor to go and play kill-team with a supposedly apostate Cardinal anyways. It remains an option, though ... after all, an Inquisitor can requisition anyone and anything to do their bidding in the pursuit of their duties. :)

Edited by Lynata

I am no expert on the Spinward Front, but I have read about the Severan Dominate, and this sounds like a good opportunity for a GM interested in inter-force dynamics to insert a Sororitas presence. The worlds of the Dominate all owe a tithe to the Ecclesiarchy, and as far as I know this is no longer being paid.

The Dominate worlds still have the same Ecclesiarchy presence as before the secession. They still have preachers, confessors and priests running around, spreading the faith; they still have huge cathedrals filled with masses of true believers; and the people still pray to the Emperor. It is actually heavily implied that faith in the Emperor is one of the things that keeps the Dominate afloat.

I like this approach to the matter because it both allows the GM to assign single Sisters to the Squad and introduce some "allied" Severan forces (who follow the Sister) to give more depth to the conflict. Example: the Squad attacks a Severan encampment, but halfway through the battle a SOB walks in and calls for a cease fire. The Severan forces immediately comply, being pious and recognizing the presence of a Daughter of the Emperor, and the Squad should do the same too. The she proceeds to hire both groups to a mission to eliminate a nearby secret Chaos pirate base / defend a shrine from the Dark Eldar / retrieve a holy relic from an Ork warband. Awkward moments include nighttime praying with Severan soldiers (with the Sister acting as a preacher), the Sister lecturing both sides continuously, friendships forged through faith, and a heroic last stand saved by a divine intervention.

It is actually heavily implied that faith in the Emperor is one of the things that keeps the Dominate afloat.

It is also stated that official Imperial propaganda draws Severans as heretics who have forsaken the Emperor and field pamphlets promise quick and brutal retribution to anyone who doesn't interact with them accordingly.

Having possibly been the one man who tipped the scales and allowed the besieged Sisters to prevail might earn you a lot of grudging respect from the Commissar, and (possibly unwanted) public praise from the regiment's Confessor.

Hell, I would go as far as saying this could shift Ecclesiarchy's (or at least Sisterhood's) standing to the whole regiment.

Edited by Chaplain

The Dominate worlds still have the same Ecclesiarchy presence as before the secession. They still have preachers, confessors and priests running around, spreading the faith; they still have huge cathedrals filled with masses of true believers; and the people still pray to the Emperor. It is actually heavily implied that faith in the Emperor is one of the things that keeps the Dominate afloat.

I have a feeling nothing of this would mean anything to the Ecclesiarch, though.

Apostates are apostates.

The Dominate worlds still have the same Ecclesiarchy presence as before the secession. They still have preachers, confessors and priests running around, spreading the faith; they still have huge cathedrals filled with masses of true believers; and the people still pray to the Emperor. It is actually heavily implied that faith in the Emperor is one of the things that keeps the Dominate afloat.

I have a feeling nothing of this would mean anything to the Ecclesiarch, though.

Apostates are apostates.

Of course it would. Everything within the borders of the Severan Dominate that belonged to the Ecclesiarchy still belongs to the Ecclesiarchy. The secession was strictly political/economical and not secular. And considering the bad blood between the Ecclesiarchy and the Administratum, the former probably won't go haywire on its own assets just because the later couldn't contain a power hungry politician, especially if said assets are perfectly safe and sound.

The Dominate worlds still have the same Ecclesiarchy presence as before the secession. They still have preachers, confessors and priests running around, spreading the faith; they still have huge cathedrals filled with masses of true believers; and the people still pray to the Emperor. It is actually heavily implied that faith in the Emperor is one of the things that keeps the Dominate afloat.

I have a feeling nothing of this would mean anything to the Ecclesiarch, though.

Apostates are apostates.

I was thinking this earlier up the thread, when I read "The Spinward Front is an odd place for a Sister as the Severan Dominate is anti-Imperium and not anti-Emperor."

That's a distinction wholly lost on the Imperium and the Ecclesiarchy proper. The God-Emperor is the Imperium in a very literal capacity.

Of course it would. Everything within the borders of the Severan Dominate that belonged to the Ecclesiarchy still belongs to the Ecclesiarchy. The secession was strictly political/economical and not secular. And considering the bad blood between the Ecclesiarchy and the Administratum, the former probably won't go haywire on its own assets just because the later couldn't contain a power hungry politician, especially if said assets are perfectly safe and sound.

The Ecclesiarchy of M41 is far from a solely secular entity. It is intertwined with other Imperial Adepta on several levels - the Scholae Progenium, for example, supply graduates to the Administratum, the Imperial Guard, the Arbites and more, whereas the Orders Famulous broker trade agreements and tutor the sons and daughters of Imperial nobility, and every single Imperial Guard regiment sent into the Spinward Front will be accompanied by a Ministorum Confessor going into battle with the troops.

"With members in every aspect of society , the Sisterhood can maintain a close eye on the affairs of the Imperium. The Orders Famulous report on the activities of the Noble Houses, the Orders Dialogous can inform their seniors of the deals and agreements binding the Imperium together and the Orders Hospitaller witness many things unseen outside their wards. All of this makes the Adepta Sororitas a useful political as well as social tool , and with the armed might of the Orders Militant, the Sisterhood has the protection and power it needs to operate successfully."

- 2E C:SoB

But the issue is even simpler here:

Duke Severus has declared secession from the High Lords.

-> The Ecclesiarch is a High Lord.

---> Therefore, the Severan Dominate is now in secession from the Ecclesiarchy.

There's a reason the Senatorum Imperialis is staffed with the most influential leaders of the Imperium, and it is for the various organisations to act as one against treachery such as this.

It's a clerical schism not unlike the one England experienced in 1534, when King Henry VIII renounced the Pope. I am not sure whether Duke Severus managed to convince the local Cardinal or simply purchased his loyalty with promises of power, or whether he had him killed and another take his place, or whether this issue is actually dealt with anywhere in the material published thus far - but a split between the church inside Severus' domain and the Ecclesiarchy as a whole would be the only way to prevent the High Lords from turning the citizens' faith against their lord by issuing decrees of excommunication and instructing the local clergy to incite the populace into righteous rebellion.

Edited by Lynata

I'm pretty sure that the three "heads" of the IoM (the Adeptus Terra, the Adeptus Mechanicum and the Ecclesiarchy) are separate entities that mind their own businesses. This was pretty much the lesson learnt from the Age of Apostasy.

There is actually a small hint in Enemies of the Imperium that the Ecclesiarchy is still active within the Severan Dominate:

While the general devotion to the Immortal Emperor might forestall such a crisis, some might even begin to advocate for religious freedoms that could handicap the power of the Imperial Creed to protect humanity within the region.

Their organisations are seperate. The leaders are still united in the Imperial Senate.

The Age of Apostasy actually didn't change anything about Imperial hierarchy; the setup in M41 has existed since shortly after the Horus Heresy, though the Temple of the Saviour Emperor did not become an Adeptus until early M32 (but that was still long before Vandire).

I mean, in theory , we could of course assume that the Ecclesiarch does not mind this little rebellion, giving the local clergy green light to continue their day-to-day affairs as if nothing happened, but ... why would he do this? Why would he risk the ire of the other eleven High Lords, trading the very principle of order and unity (which is part of the Imperial Creed) just for the sake of a handful of worlds that mean nothing at all to him as a person?

To me, that'd seem like a reason for the Inquisition to move in and arrest him for treason. I mean, it's similar to the Master of the Administratum randomly deciding he'd not send the Imperial Guard to squash this rebellion.

There is actually a small hint in Enemies of the Imperium that the Ecclesiarchy is still active within the Severan Dominate:

The Imperial Creed is not = the Ecclesiarchy, similar to how the Christian faith is not = the Catholic Church. Especially since religious teachings differ from planet to planet, which is coincidentally often sufficient cause for a War of Faith alone, with the Ecclesiarchy mobilising its forces to crush the supposedly heretical subfaction!

I don't doubt that the Imperial Creed is still being preached by Ministorum priests in the area; that much I've read and has been said in this thread. The question is: does the Severan Ministorum still listen to the greater Ecclesiarchy as headquartered on Terra?

Because I doubt you can gain independence from Terra without independence from its Ecclesiarch.

Edited by Lynata

In Shield of Humanity on page 97, it mentions an Order Famulous with the name of 'Order of the Valourous Heart'. A commissar is interested in acts of bravery according to a letter from Sister Gedrun. What if that Commissar was the regiments' Commissar and he later discovers Sister Gedrun has been murdered by men in the regiments' uniform? They might have to work with the Commissar and the Sisters of Battle at the same time, both to prove the regiments' innocence and in the process, discover the true murderer. Is this the first of a series of murders commited against the order, framing the Regiment?

[...] I mean, it's similar to the Master of the Administratum randomly deciding he'd not send the Imperial Guard to squash this rebellion.

[...]

I would go as far as to say that the comparison isn't just similar, it's identical . After all, the guardsmen of Sub-Sector Periphery all answered to the Administratum until the rebellion started. The Imperial Guard (and the Imperial Navy) are integrated into the worlds and region, the PDF's drawn from the various world.

And so on and so forth.

Really, I am not as well-read on the setting of Only War as I should be, I'm not sure how much of this is touched upon in the books in terms of fluff, but if it's not, it really should.

Is there an Ecclesiarchy within the Periphery under the influences of the Severan Dominate? Absolutely. Of course there is. But they obviously isn't responding to the Ecclesiarch any more, and thus, may see those that do with deep-seethed suspicion. At the same time, this is their faith , so if a Sororitas shows up, who's to say that some (or all) of them won't bend knee right then and there. How do the faithful even tell the missionaries and the priesthood apart from each other, between the Imperium and the Dominion?

The situation is near-identical with any Adepta of the Imperium. There may even be declared renegades of the Astartes that have defected to the Dominate, for all we know. But it's more of an issue for those well-integrated organizations. The Imperial Guard could very well go "It's still our soldiers." by the same logic that the Ecclesiarchy would go "It's still our faithful".

But it's not. These are monolithic organizations pitted straight against eachother, each side believes the other side a heretic. All of these organizations will overlap in much the same fashion, face the same issues of killing those that are closest to them (or refusing to, under circumstances; we are still talking about humans, and at the end of the day, the nature of the organizations gives a lot of control to individual commanders) and so on.

...does the Severan Dominate still have a functional Commissariat? I remember reading something about it, but I may be mistaken.

[...] I mean, it's similar to the Master of the Administratum randomly deciding he'd not send the Imperial Guard to squash this rebellion.

[...]

I would go as far as to say that the comparison isn't just similar, it's identical . After all, the guardsmen of Sub-Sector Periphery all answered to the Administratum until the rebellion started. The Imperial Guard (and the Imperial Navy) are integrated into the worlds and region, the PDF's drawn from the various world.

And so on and so forth.

Really, I am not as well-read on the setting of Only War as I should be, I'm not sure how much of this is touched upon in the books in terms of fluff, but if it's not, it really should.

Is there an Ecclesiarchy within the Periphery under the influences of the Severan Dominate? Absolutely. Of course there is. But they obviously isn't responding to the Ecclesiarch any more, and thus, may see those that do with deep-seethed suspicion. At the same time, this is their faith , so if a Sororitas shows up, who's to say that some (or all) of them won't bend knee right then and there. How do the faithful even tell the missionaries and the priesthood apart from each other, between the Imperium and the Dominion?

The situation is near-identical with any Adepta of the Imperium. There may even be declared renegades of the Astartes that have defected to the Dominate, for all we know. But it's more of an issue for those well-integrated organizations. The Imperial Guard could very well go "It's still our soldiers." by the same logic that the Ecclesiarchy would go "It's still our faithful".

But it's not. These are monolithic organizations pitted straight against eachother, each side believes the other side a heretic. All of these organizations will overlap in much the same fashion, face the same issues of killing those that are closest to them (or refusing to, under circumstances; we are still talking about humans, and at the end of the day, the nature of the organizations gives a lot of control to individual commanders) and so on.

...does the Severan Dominate still have a functional Commissariat? I remember reading something about it, but I may be mistaken.

The Severan Dominate has an organisation of 'Ducal Legates' who fill a similar role of morale officer but tend to hide their power over the life and death of those in their care behind an act of caring for the community they look after, because that is what they are taught in Duke Severus's version of the Schola Progenium. All the actual Commissars were executed behind the scenes because they refused to convert to the Duke's point of view.

Edited by Drath

[...] But it's not. These are monolithic organizations pitted straight against eachother, each side believes the other side a heretic. All of these organizations will overlap in much the same fashion, face the same issues of killing those that are closest to them (or refusing to, under circumstances; we are still talking about humans, and at the end of the day, the nature of the organizations gives a lot of control to individual commanders) and so on.

Yeah, exactly! It's a pretty interesting situation just because you have a "split" that forces everyone to decide where they stand. I wager it'd depend on the type of organisation as to whether its members are more likely to stay true to the Imperium or follow the dictates of the local government.
Except for the Astartes, all the major Imperial organisations are networked in some way, with a chain of command that runs all the way back to Terra. Planetside leaders are in contact with those of the subsector, then the sector, and then the segmentum. It's easy to cut off local organisations such as the PDF because they have no link to the Imperium at large, but much trickier to take care of the Imperial Adepta, because somewhere you'll have a guy who still takes orders from another guy who is loyal to Terra - which means he'll be harder to convince than someone who has already been inducted into the Severan hierarchy instead of the Terran one.
Humans are socially conditioned to follow orders (see the famous Milgram experiment , or the Hofling hospital experiment ), so realistically, what Duke Severus would have had to do would be to either convince the local "link" between the Severan branch of the Adeptus to comply with his orders, or remove this link and replace it with someone more malleable (likely bribed by promises of power).
My personal assessment would be that he had the Arbites killed, Administratum clerks arrested, and the local leaders of the Ministorum and Mechanicum either lured into his camp or "replaced" so that the others would fall in line and keep quiet (or even support the schism).
Unfortunately, these details don't seem to be discussed in the source, leaving it up to our imagination.

...does the Severan Dominate still have a functional Commissariat? I remember reading something about it, but I may be mistaken.

I'm not sure if the Commissariat would have any logistics below Segmentum Command - they're pretty much just individuals permanently attached to an Imperial Guard regiment the moment it is recruited from a PDF, and even their training piggybacks on the Ecclesiarchy's Schola program rather than requiring installations of their own...
But such details depend highly on specific sources, anyways, so I may just be talking about stuff that doesn't apply in FFG's books.
Did the books mention anything about Guard regiments that chose to side with the Severan Dominate? Were there any regiments garrisoned on its worlds, rather than the usual "recruited = goodbye forever"?
[edit] Ah, nevermind - Drath delivered the answer! :)
Edited by Lynata

Did the books mention anything about Guard regiments that chose to side with the Severan Dominate? Were there any regiments garrisoned on its worlds, rather than the usual "recruited = goodbye forever"?
[edit] Ah, nevermind - Drath delivered the answer! :)

The only mention I could find was from a quick search of 'Enemies of the Imperium', which both mentions the Duke owning multiple regiments from 'Ohmsworld' that are used primarily in the defence of that worlds filtration systems, which filtrate multiple compounds vital for producing Adamantium. It also gives rules for these playing one of these regiments, if the players want to work for the Dominate. It also mentions the 'Kokytos Frozen Wind, the honour-bound Caravasse Liegsworn and the infamous Kulth 57th 'Butchers.', but these are unexplained. Hope that answers the question.

Edited by Drath

Are those regiments specifically said to be (former) IG, or could they just be PDF?

The latter wouldn't have had any Commissars - unless Severan's government had a local mirror organisation such as Marius Hax' Chaliced Commissariat in the Calixis sector, but this would be run independently of the Imperial Adepta.

That said, since you mentioned Commissars being killed, I suppose it's likely that at least some of those regiments were garrisoned IG. The Commissars must have come from somewhere, after all. ;)

(actually, isn't Kulth a world in the Calixis sector?)

And thanks for the clarifications!

Edited by Lynata

Are those regiments specifically said to be (former) IG, or could they just be PDF?

The latter wouldn't have had any Commissars - unless Severan's government had a local mirror organisation such as Marius Hax' Chaliced Commissariat in the Calixis sector, but this would be run independently of the Imperial Adepta.

That said, since you mentioned Commissars being killed, I suppose it's likely that at least some of those regiments were garrisoned IG. The Commissars must have come from somewhere, after all. ;)

(actually, isn't Kulth a world in the Calixis sector?)

And thanks for the clarifications!

Firstly, you're very welcome. I can't be any help over the weekend but that's no problem. However, I don't know but I would guess the Kulth regiment would be former IG due to the designation, as would at least a few of the regiments from the others but that's just my guess, not actual fluff.

The Severan Dominate has an organisation of 'Ducal Legates' who fill a similar role of morale officer but tend to hide their power over the life and death of those in their care behind an act of caring for the community they look after, because that is what they are taught in Duke Severus's version of the Schola Progenium. All the actual Commissars were executed behind the scenes because they refused to convert to the Duke's point of view.

Or at least that's what I gathered from your description. Thanks.