I posted last week about my X wing frustrations. Thanks again for the help everyone! I have an XXYB build. But if my play tests on Friday don`t work I may use this list. How does it look? I should note I have only one copy of squad leader.
Howlrunner
Hull upgrade
21
Jonus
Squad leader
Proton bomb
29
Scimitar squadron
Cluster missiles
Proton bomb
25
Scimitar bomber
Cluster missles
Proton bomb
25
Total 100
Thats a lot of ordnance. I'll let someone who knows more do an analysis of that. I've also never used the Proton Bombs, so no info there.
Squad Leader is actually unique. Funny enough. There's a little dot on the side of its name on the card.
The howlrunner/jonus/cluster missiles combo could make for a pretty nasty alpha strike, especially against B or Y wings or a YT. The only problem I would see is having to get in range 1-2.
I love Proton Bombs. The best thing ever is catching an A-wing with one and having it get a Direct Hit
I'm not generally a fan of Cluster Missiles, but next to Jonus they hurt.
Proton Bombs are the best 5 point piece of ordnance in the game.
What I'm wondering is if Howlrunner is worth it in a list with only 3 other ships.
I feel that having both Howlrunner and Jonus together in the squad dilutes the squad's power. Catering to one or the other might make the squad more effective. If you go Howlrunner, specialize in more cheap bomber bodies with cheap bombs. If you go with Jonus, replace howlrunner with another missile carrying bomber, for more nastiness.
Proton bombs are nice, but they are premium. Seismics are going to be more effective per point. So if you need any more points, downgrade protons down to seismics. Maybe keep one proton for jonus because of his higher PS.
You could downgrade the proton bombs to seismics, and drop the hull upgrade on howl, and have enough for an academy.
For a pure bomber build, try this:
100 points
Jonus (22)
3x Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Proton Torpedoes + Seismic Charges (3x26 = 78)
Howelrunner's ability does not work on secondary weapons, so she isn't going to stack with Jonus, that being said you will be shooting your primary weapons sometimes.
I'm not a huge fan of bombs on low PS ships but it is pretty theoretical for me.
I love Jonus with Squad Leader, he uses his high PS to give good TL to his fellow Bombers. (It can be hard to get a TL on the ship you want to missile with a low PS)
I like the list I am considering running something very similar.
My thought with Howl was to give the rerolls to everyone after the ordinance fires. But i like the advice with the concussions, protons and the math to get the academy pilot.
How about:
Academy TIE
12
Howlrunner
18
Jonus
Squad leader
Seis
26
Scimitar squadron
Conc. missiles
Seis
22
Scimitar bomber
Conc. missles
Seis
22
Total 100
I saw this and think it might work,
Howl Runner (18)
Captain Jonus (22)
Scim with Cluster Missile (20)
Scim with Cluster Missile (20)
Scim with Cluster Missile (20)
The point is after the missile attack you still have a lot of damage reroll which can be done.
At first I wanted to run,
Jonus
2- Scim with Flecth torp and Cluster
1- shuttle with HLC
But in the end the extra ship is much better, and your basically rerolling everything.
Last thought
5- Scims
1- Howlrunner
might be crazy also seeing your basically increasing hp by 12 but losing one atk over standard swarm, it might also be an option. I think it might well against a standard 7 tie swarm.
How about:
Academy TIE
12
Howlrunner
18
Jonus
Squad leader
Seis
26
Scimitar squadron
Conc. missiles
Seis
22
Scimitar bomber
Conc. missles
Seis
22
Total 100
This. I was going to suggest something similar, dropping the seismic off Jonus in favor of Howlrunner having Swarm Tactics and using clusters instead of concussions since you have Jonus around - not as good as Concussion on more agile ships, but brutal on a YT, B-Wing, Y-Wing, or Shuttle. I have run pure bomber squads enough to not leave home without Howlrunner so you can still be effective after the alpha strike (at least based on my experiences, YMMV).
Jonus
Concussion Missiles
Scimitar
Proton Torpedoes
Howlrunner
Squad Leader
Ryhmer
Swarm Tactics
Advanced Proton Torpedoes
After an amazing missile strike it turn into a swarm with howlrunner.
I've flown a lot of bomber lists, and I must vouch for using Concussion Missles with Jonus.by your side over Cluster Missles.
The math/thinking/probability goes like this:
Let's say you're going to use Cluster Missles on an Agility 1 target, which is optimal. Let's say you also got a free focus action from Jonus. Here is how your attack would look (I just rolled some dice on Vassal for randomness)
First roll: [Hit][Hit][Hit]
Defender first roll: [Evade]
Second roll: [Focus][blank][Hit]
Reroll Blank with Jonus' ability: [Focus]
Spend focus for total of 3 hits
Defender second roll: [Evade]
I managed to roll really well the first time, but it won't always go like that. Also, the defender dodged 1/3 of your hits. Let's assume he took an evade token. Let's also assume you didn't take a free focus action from Jonus. So on the reroll with Jonus, you'd reroll the Blank and Focus. On Vassal I got yet another Focus. You would have very minimal returns if the defender rolls evades and you do not roll hits/focus. ALSO, if you took a focus, and rolled 3 focus' on the first attempt, you now have no other focus to modify your second attack. Now you're in Range 1-2 and ready to take a beating from your defender.
Let's look at what Concussion missiles do:
First roll: [blank][Focus][HIt][Hit]
Change [blank] to [Hit] and spend [Focus] for [Hit]
4 hits
Defender roll: [blank]
Here, you got 4 hits, were able to use the focus Jonus gave you....had an amazing potential for 4 hits, which you got. Defender rolled a Blank, which was random, but still...you got more hits than with Cluster Missiles.
Concussion Missles on a Bomber, in my mind, will always be superior. You get four dice...two of the dice will be potential rerolls with Jonus, and you get to change one blank to a hit. If you take a focus along with your TL from Jonus' SL ability, you'll almost always get 4 hits.
If you don't believe me, sit on Vassal for 15 minutes and roll dice. Roll what dice your defender would roll. You'll see the dice modifications you get with Concussion Missiles are way better.
My two cents.
Okay first, in your example,you didn't get more hit with Concussion than with cluster, you got the same, and that's by making the defender success both defense roll against the cluster but miss the one against the concussion. Also, when you have access to 2 reroll, I would pick Proton Torpedoes over concussion missile since the odds are the same but you have better chances to get a crit in and it minimize the need of a focus token.
Also, consider the range of both weapons and the ship they are on. With a PS2 ship, you will probably move first. Against a good opponent, you will move into range 3, get your target lock, and then your opponent will fly into range 1 so you can't use your missiles/torpedoes. It doesn't mean he will do it, but you have much more chances to be able to unload your ordnance with a range 1-2 weapon than a 2-3 one.
A matter of taste of course. For my part, I had better experience, only when combined with Jonus, with Cluster missiles.
I posted last week about my X wing frustrations. Thanks again for the help everyone! I have an XXYB build. But if my play tests on Friday don`t work I may use this list. How does it look? I should note I have only one copy of squad leader.
Howlrunner
Hull upgrade
21
Jonus
Squad leader
Proton bomb
29
Scimitar squadron
Cluster missiles
Proton bomb
25
Scimitar bomber
Cluster missles
Proton bomb
25
Total 100
proton bombs can be devastating but versus high PS enemies they r hard to use effectively.
i actually like howlrunner in this type of squad as u have a mid-game boost to your offense once ur ordinance is used up, although keeping her alive that long will be hard going.
id recommend downgrading the proton bombs on the weaker bombers to seismic charges and spend the 6 points u now have on additional defense for Howlunner and/or a Homing Missile on one of ur bombers.
if u can find the points to upgrade ur scimitars to Gammas, u will have a much more effective alpha strike and ur sesimics wil also be able to hit PS1-4 ships more easily. ALthough finding points for all of this is going to be hard.
here are a few squads to think about...
SQUAD#1 (100pts)
Howlrunner
Push the Limit
Hull upgrade
24
Jonus
Squad leader
Seismic Charges
26
Gamma squadron
Cluster missiles
Seismic Charges
25
Gamma bomber
Cluster missles
Seismic Charges
25
SQUAD#2 (99pts)
Howlrunner
Determination
19
Jonus
Squad leader
Seismic Charges
26
Gamma squadron
Cluster missiles
Flachette Torpedoes
Seismic Charges
27
Gamma bomber
Cluster missles
Seismic Charges
27
I have been running 3 bombers and a Tie Advance
Jonus
- Squad Leader
-Seismic Charge
26 pts
Scimitar Squadron
- Flechette Torp
-Cluster Missiles
-Seismic Charge
24 pts
Scimitar Squadron
-Flechette Torp
-Cluster Missiles
-Seismic Charge
24 pts
Tempest Squadron
-Cluster Missiles
25 pts
99 points
Lots of Hull and shields to eat through. Ordinance to maximize Jonus's ability. Fun to fly. I have really enjoyed it. If I had one additional bomber I may have swapped out Tempest for a fourth bomber but the Tempest's extra agility is nice to have late game sometimes.
Lol, nah, cheers though
Good point, thanks for sharing. cheers