The line of sight example given on p.12 of the rules for the base game says Jain Fairwood is not able to attack the zombie with a ranged weapon because there is no line of sight.

According to the line of sight rules, there is line of sight if a straight line can be drawn from any corner of the attacker's space to any corner of the target space. If the line passes through a corner of a blocked space, the target space is still considered to be in line of sight.

The example shows there is no line of sight by looking at two different corners of the attacker and target spaces. However, if I were to draw a line from the lower left-hand corner of the attacker space to the lower right-hand corner of the target space, the line passes through the corner of a blocked space but not through a blocked space. Therefore, I believe there is actually line of sight for Jain Fairwood in this example and a ranged attack is possible. Can anyone check my reasoning on this and see if the rulebook is in error?

Because it is passing through a blocked space, the zombie is what is blocking line of sight to that corner.

But if you draw the line I indicated, it doesn't pass through a blocked space. The line will pass through the corner of the blocked space in a similar way that is shown for Leoric of the Book.

Ah, sorry I replied too soon. I understand your reply now. Thanks for clearing that up.

Its possible for the zombie to block line of site to itself

This was pointed out when the game was released actually, and endlessly debated until an official response was made that the zombie is blocking line of sight to itself. The space with the zombie figure is a blocked space, since it contains a figure. So yes, you can't see the zombie, because the zombie is in the way of seeing the zombie. No, it doesn't make logical sense.

You get the same choices everybody else did though. Play the rules as written and don't think about it too hard, or play the 1st ed center to center rules, and still don't think about it too hard.

You get the same choices everybody else did though. Play the rules as written and don't think about it too hard, or play the 1st ed center to center rules, and still don't think about it too hard.

Exactly. The LOS rules are not necessarily defined to be realistic, but to be a simple, empirical way to determine whether figure A has LOS on space B. They're constructs of a grid board designed to simplify the process of attacking, so don't make it more complicated than it is. The only question that really needs asking is, "do you have corner to corner?" Personally, I don't mind if sometimes that means a weird situation of "you can't see me, because I'm in the way of myself" comes up, as long as it's remembered that it's really "you can't see the corner of my space , because I'm in the way."

The main thing that i do not like about the LOS rules is that it makes it almost impossible for anyone to hide out of the way anywhere.

Not being able to shoot the zombie because it blocks LOS to itself doesnt really bother me.

The main thing that i do not like about the LOS rules is that it makes it almost impossible for anyone to hide out of the way anywhere.

Not being able to shoot the zombie because it blocks LOS to itself doesnt really bother me.

When I picked up 2nd recently, we quickly switched back to the 1st ed center-center rule. Less simple to eyeball LOS lines, but better strategic options in my opinion. Give them a shot in a one-off quest, you may like them.

The problem with switching back to D1 LoS rules is that it makes ranged characters inferior to melee, like they were in D1. YOu can always come up with a reason for why a Zombie could block line of sight to itself. Maybe the zombie only has one weak spot and the rest of its body is in the way (like its head).

The problem with switching back to D1 LoS rules is that it makes ranged characters inferior to melee, like they were in D1. YOu can always come up with a reason for why a Zombie could block line of sight to itself. Maybe the zombie only has one weak spot and the rest of its body is in the way (like its head).

Either way as long as your consistent and don't switch rules mid-campaign I don't see it making a big difference.

The problem with switching back to D1 LoS rules is that it makes ranged characters inferior to melee, like they were in D1. YOu can always come up with a reason for why a Zombie could block line of sight to itself. Maybe the zombie only has one weak spot and the rest of its body is in the way (like its head).

Difference of opinions there. I still find ranged classes important, they force the OL to adjust his strategy to avoid being pincushions or blasted to dust. I just think 2nd ed took it to far with removing cover as a tactical concern.

Either way as long as your consistent and don't switch rules mid-campaign I don't see it making a big difference.

Cover is still a tactical concern if you play very carefully, but it's less so with large monsters.