I've been doing some math and I actually think with high PS pilots, Predator might actually be more powerful than Opportunist. Specifically because there is no added stress component, which either limits your future maneuvering or limits future uses of Opportunist until it is shed.

When running on a PS8 or 9 pilot, you will get 2 dice rerolls on all attacks. Combine that with the ability to take focus and significantly reduce the chances of rolling a miss on your dice.

I loved running Wedge + PTL + R2. I would Focus and Target Lock, to maximize his output. This cost me 4 points and whenever I used it I Wedge would be stressed (which also implied that I had to be able to use actions in the action phase.) Predator accomplishes almost the same thing, but at a point less and without the stress consequences (so no need for the R2 unit.)

So in the end the choice is:

Opportunist: Higher damage range

Predator: Higher probability of doing damage.

Course if you manage to TL + Focus + opportunist its much better than Predator, but thats relying on a multiship action combo.

Whisper + VI + ACD is a soft-counter as well (as long as you have initiative)

Of course, if Wes can shoot at her, you probably took a wrong turn somewhere and very well could go boom with only 2 AG decloaked.

I'm not sure I understand part of your post, Predator triggers the extra reroll if their skill is 2 or lower, not based on difference between them.

I still like that It provides a free boost to damage, and more so against swarms. It also doesn't stress you, as mentioned, and it remains useful on every shot. Well, unless you ace the shot anyway, and that's a good problem to have.

I've been doing some math and I actually think with high PS pilots, Predator might actually be more powerful than Opportunist. Specifically because there is no added stress component, which either limits your future maneuvering or limits future uses of Opportunist until it is shed.

When running on a PS8 or 9 pilot, you will get 2 dice rerolls on all attacks. Combine that with the ability to take focus and significantly reduce the chances of rolling a miss on your dice.

I loved running Wedge + PTL + R2. I would Focus and Target Lock, to maximize his output. This cost me 4 points and whenever I used it I Wedge would be stressed (which also implied that I had to be able to use actions in the action phase.) Predator accomplishes almost the same thing, but at a point less and without the stress consequences (so no need for the R2 unit.)

So in the end the choice is:

Opportunist: Higher damage range

Predator: Higher probability of doing damage.

Course if you manage to TL + Focus + opportunist its much better than Predator, but thats relying on a multiship action combo.

Rerun the math rerolling one dice as Predator depends on the targets pilot skill not the attacker.

I've been doing some math and I actually think with high PS pilots, Predator might actually be more powerful than Opportunist. Specifically because there is no added stress component, which either limits your future maneuvering or limits future uses of Opportunist until it is shed.

When running on a PS8 or 9 pilot, you will get 2 dice rerolls on all attacks. Combine that with the ability to take focus and significantly reduce the chances of rolling a miss on your dice.

I loved running Wedge + PTL + R2. I would Focus and Target Lock, to maximize his output. This cost me 4 points and whenever I used it I Wedge would be stressed (which also implied that I had to be able to use actions in the action phase.) Predator accomplishes almost the same thing, but at a point less and without the stress consequences (so no need for the R2 unit.)

So in the end the choice is:

Opportunist: Higher damage range

Predator: Higher probability of doing damage.

Course if you manage to TL + Focus + opportunist its much better than Predator, but thats relying on a multiship action combo.

Rerun the math rerolling one dice as Predator depends on the targets pilot skill not the attacker.

Which seems silly to me. I wish it (along with flight instructor) depended upon a PS delta... Why does a Green A Wing get two rerolls against a Blue B wing, but Wedge doesn't get two against a green? Seems a bit silly to me.

I think the predator upgrade is already good no need to push it further. After all we all know what a diffrence Howlrunner makes to her swarm.

Tried out Wes + VI + R2-D2

Wedge + Op + R2

Luke + Op + R2

it pleasantly chewed up some B wings but got eaten by a TIE swarm, wondering if R2-D2 is a good choice on Wes and wondering about Porkins instead of Luke or the pilot that ditches stress when he target locks using the droid that gives EPS which means going from PS8 to 5 but frees up enough points to put fletchet torps on 2 of the x-wings

Ok so I spent some time in Excel when I should have been working crunching numbers.

I only looked at average grosse damage (i.e. hits + crits before evades are taken into account.) I did not look into multiple action generation. I also didnt calculate Predator + TL because you cant reroll rerolls.

Average damage at RB2 and 3 with an X-Wing.

Norm: 1.5

Norm+Focus: 2.25

Norm+TL: 2.25

Opportunist: 2

Opp+Focus: 3

Opp+TL: 3

Pred(1): 2

Pred(1)+Focus: 2.625

Pred(2): 2.25

Pred(2)+Focus: 2.81

Average damage at RB1 with an X-Wing

Norm: 2

Norm+Focus: 3

Norm+TL: 3

Opportunist: 2.5

Opp+Focus: 3.75

Opp+TL: 3.75

Pred(1): 2.5

Pred(1)+Focus: 3.5

Pred(2): 3

Pred(2)+Focus: 3.5

From what I generated (and my math might be completely wrong I admit it), Opportunist is slightly more effective when the attacker has a Focus or TL.

There is a lot more information to take into account.

1) after rolling these hits, the defender can evade. Targets hit with opportunist will not have defensive tokens, so might be less likely to defend.

2) after using Opportunist, the attacker now holds a stress token, which dictates his movement and/or ability to use an action.

Some food for thought.

Biggs + R2F2...Wes is pretty much nullified against him. Just make sure you clear Wes from the board before they clear Biggs.

I've been having fun with wes+swarm/squad leader

Ibby+hlc+opportunist

Biggs+R2F2

APT x2 - just to be sure

Biggs + R2F2...Wes is pretty much nullified against him. Just make sure you clear Wes from the board before they clear Biggs.

Here is how the average game will play out against that load out of Biggs Vs my 3X's build

Wes will likely deal 1.21 damage

Wedge will likely deal 2.25

Luke will likely deal 1.9

Those are averages for an average damage out put of 5.36 = dead Biggs first attack. That is not even taken into account Crit Hits. More Red dice will always beat more green! Peroid!

Biggs + R2F2...Wes is pretty much nullified against him. Just make sure you clear Wes from the board before they clear Biggs.

Here is how the average game will play out against that load out of Biggs Vs my 3X's build

Wes will likely deal 1.21 damage

Wedge will likely deal 2.25

Luke will likely deal 1.9

Those are averages for an average damage out put of 5.36 = dead Biggs first attack. That is not even taken into account Crit Hits. More Red dice will always beat more green! Peroid!

And Biggs never ever gets the shot off in that scenario.

Biggs + R2F2...Wes is pretty much nullified against him. Just make sure you clear Wes from the board before they clear Biggs.

Here is how the average game will play out against that load out of Biggs Vs my 3X's build

Wes will likely deal 1.21 damage

Wedge will likely deal 2.25

Luke will likely deal 1.9

Those are averages for an average damage out put of 5.36 = dead Biggs first attack. That is not even taken into account Crit Hits. More Red dice will always beat more green! Peroid!

Well ****, i guess i aught to build more than a 28 point list then.

So let's look at the rest of the build, I would assume you are a 4 Rebel build likely 2 B's and 2X's. All 4 ships with 3 attack dice. We have seen the average of the Wes build killing Biggs before he gets to attack. What does the remainder of the shade deal in return. I'm going to run the numbers as if your ships have Focus and your target has no tokens, as they would have been used in the death of Biggs.

1st B-Wing will average 1.53

2nd B-Wing will Average 1.53

And the other X will average 1.53

That comes to an average of 4.59, whomever you focus on lives more often than not.

Next round the 3 X's will kill another ship and the 2 you have left will kill one. You will now be even at 2 ships Vs 2 ships and depending on who you focus on facing Wedge and Luke, or Luke and Wes, or Wedge and Wes. Any of those two will be a big problem for your run of the mill pilot skill 4 ships. Luke has R2-D2 and a natural evasiveness in him. Wes is still stripping tokens reducing you return fire effectiveness. Wedge, well he just deals more damage than what you have left. Out of 15 games I've played this squad Vs 4 rebel ships I've only lost once. I'm not so much picking on your Biggs idea, but more telling you it won't work. The only thing that I struggle against is a Tie Swarm. So to answer the Question in the thread to beat Wes and other pilots using Opportunist, fly a Tie Swarm.

osoroshii what droids do you put on your list? I put R2s on my Wedge and Luke to offset the stress from opportunist leaving so ended up with R2-D2 on Wes, you put him on Luke instead?

osoroshii what droids do you put on your list? I put R2s on my Wedge and Luke to offset the stress from opportunist leaving so ended up with R2-D2 on Wes, you put him on Luke instead?

I tried this list today and put R2-D2 on Luke, thinking he'd be a great late game ship after Wedge and/or Wes became inevitably focused down. Didn't even need it though, they just melted their opponents.

Wes + Veteran Instincts

Wedge + Opportunist + R2 Astromech

Luke + Opportunist + R2-D2

There is a little more to it than just the list, there are certain tactics I use to force the combat the way I want.

osoroshii what droids do you put on your list? I put R2s on my Wedge and Luke to offset the stress from opportunist leaving so ended up with R2-D2 on Wes, you put him on Luke instead?

I tried this list today and put R2-D2 on Luke, thinking he'd be a great late game ship after Wedge and/or Wes became inevitably focused down. Didn't even need it though, they just melted their opponents.

Thank you for at least putting it on the table. Now you can warn people at how much damage this Squad does. Compare to the example I gave above.

I think one way to fight this is to avoid Wes and focus down his buddies if at all possible: Wes isn't the best for Endgame scenarios as he buffs his allies.

osoroshii what droids do you put on your list? I put R2s on my Wedge and Luke to offset the stress from opportunist leaving so ended up with R2-D2 on Wes, you put him on Luke instead?

I tried this list today and put R2-D2 on Luke, thinking he'd be a great late game ship after Wedge and/or Wes became inevitably focused down. Didn't even need it though, they just melted their opponents.

Thank you for at least putting it on the table. Now you can warn people at how much damage this Squad does. Compare to the example I gave above.

I actually ran exactly that list. I had originally planned to run this list:

Wes + VI

Wedge + Opportunist & R2

Biggs + RS-D2 & Shield Upgrade

Now though, I'm a firm believer in formation flying and high skill attacks. It's very different than the Squints I usually fly, but I'm a little bit in love. Need to give it a few more runs though to see if it continues to work as well as this first time. Swarms intimidate me, as do things like 3 BHs or named YT-1300's.

osoroshii what droids do you put on your list? I put R2s on my Wedge and Luke to offset the stress from opportunist leaving so ended up with R2-D2 on Wes, you put him on Luke instead?

I tried this list today and put R2-D2 on Luke, thinking he'd be a great late game ship after Wedge and/or Wes became inevitably focused down. Didn't even need it though, they just melted their opponents.

Thank you for at least putting it on the table. Now you can warn people at how much damage this Squad does. Compare to the example I gave above.

I actually ran exactly that list. I had originally planned to run this list:

Wes + VI

Wedge + Opportunist & R2

Biggs + RS-D2 & Shield Upgrade

Now though, I'm a firm believer in formation flying and high skill attacks. It's very different than the Squints I usually fly, but I'm a little bit in love. Need to give it a few more runs though to see if it continues to work as well as this first time. Swarms intimidate me, as do things like 3 BHs or named YT-1300's.

Swarms, yes be nervous! In fact if your local meta is heavy swarm avoid this list. Named YT's and Bounty hunters, the squad will cut them down fast almost to easy.

Well guys we got a little off track, I was looking at more ideas around builds that counter wes, or tactics. I know focus fire is the key solution but what do you do about the token removal?

Also someone mentioned that a soft counter is whipser with VI and ACD, this doesn't work as wes is ps10 and whisper ps9.

Wes alone without Opportunist behind him, marksmanship, R2F2, Barrel roll, Boost or any other action he can not steal. If he has Opportunist behind him Fly a swarm. It really is that cut and dry.

Swarms are Wes's bane, agreed.

I also think Defenders could do a number on him. They have the stats to do without tokens for a round or two and their dial should allow them to get behind him. Ideally, their dial should let them engage the XXX squad on their own terms and keep it out of formation. There's not much opportunist can do with Defenders chewing up the X-Wing's backside.