This is my first game with RtL, and I'm the OL. I realized now (almost done with copper) that I have made a few mistakes in my xp purchases but my real issue right now is the Lieutenants.

I thought lieutenants were supposed to be a powerful force, but I now realize they are really really pathetic. I've purchased two lieutenants and lost them both. I've managed to siege one city (of course the only city that doesn't give me extra experience), only because of timing early in the game.

The first time the heroes encountered one of my lieutenants, he died before I was able to even activate my monsters. I realize that I may have set up the monsters a little bad, I had them all crushed in the corner, guarding my lieutenant. The heroes were able to punch through the walls in one turn (running and using the hook). The second turn fatigue and battle actions by two characters finished him off. Even if I had placed him near the exit, i wouldn't have been able to run away.

The second lieutenant actually got a fight out. I placed monsters a little more spread out so the heroes would be slighly delayed. The lieutenant got one battle action off. He had 24 health left and I decided I could take a hit. He died with 1.5 heroes (one battle and one half of a battle).

Am I missing something with these encounters? I have a third lieutenant now, and I'm afraid to make him leave the keep. The heroes are now sprinting around the map two locations at a time, through water and secret paths. I fear if I leave the keep, i'll be constantly jumped, and since the heroes have TWO FULL TURNS before I can even think about running out of the encounter.

Anyone else feel this issue? Are the monsters in encounters stunned like normal Descent rules (heroes open door, monsters are stunned for one OL turn, aka two hero turns)?

Please help!

Kikketer said:

First off, monsters are never stunned unless hit with a stun weapon or a flute of repose, perhaps. When the heroes open a door, they are still in the middle of their turn. Once that turn ends, it's the OL's turn and he can activate any monsters that survive. Generally, a smart hero group will open the door with their first hero and get some hits in on your monsters before they can activate, but there're no stun tokens on your monsters.

In a lt. encounter (or any other encounter), unless you draw box canyon, the heroes go first. Even on ambushes heroes go first (other than gata, I don't think Lts. can ambush), it's just that 3 of them are sleeping.

As to your stronger question...yes. Lieutenants are largely all bark and no bite. The only times they have an advantage are early in their respective campaign level. If your heroes still have shop equipment, they may have trouble with copper lts. Copper equipment may have trouble with silver, and so on. Even then, you have to be pretty smart about it or you will still lose. My experience has been that Eliza doesn't have much going for her...especially if you don't have beasts upgraded.

Since the heroes are going first, you want to keep things in trees for shadowcloak as far away as possible so they hopefully cannot kill your minions in the first turn. Do whatever you can to slow them down. You want to gain threat for extra dice/movement/reinforcements. You should start your lieutenant near an exit because you always want to have the option of running. Preferably he is also behind (if not in) a tree. If you don't have any treachery yet, you're really gonna have a hard time. You really want to save lt. battles for when you have a lot of treachery and therefore options. 2 trap treachery means 2 dark charms, assuming you have AoD. Crushing blow is handy because you can put it right in your hand. You can also get one regular danger (again, assuming AoD) and a rage (you can run and rage and get two attacks AND twice your speed). Monster treachery is way better than reinforcing, because you can put a couple of spawn cards in your hand and play them for close to the cost of reinforcing one normal monster.

Since you don't get Lts. back, don't risk them for a few conquest. You will need them later. They can flee, so...flee. Put them by the exit, block them with your other monsters, and get the heck out if you are outgunned.

Oh my. Thank you so much for the response.

We have been playing this game incorrectly since the second dungeon (we have all expansions and have been playing weekly for about a year). My monsters actually stand a chance!!! All this time, i've been putting monsters in, knowing they will get plowed through in two turns. But now that I know they are active on my NEXT TURN, I'm a super happy camper.

I would like to backtrack about one year... anyone know a way?

Well now with this knowledge I may stand a chance, hopefully it's not too late.

Thanks again, you are my hero! (or whatever overlords call their idols)

Scrap the RtL game and start over? The way you've been doing it has been a serious disadvantage to you.

Big Remy said:

I agree. If you're only in copper and you've already lost 2 lieutenants plus you've basically given the heroes an extra round to attack your monsters...you might as well cash this one in.

One other thing I would like to make sure you are aware of: When you spawn monsters (play a spawn card and flip the eyes), they activate THAT SAME turn. The reason you have to spawn before you activate is for that very reason. So that beastman war party you put around the corner and just out of sight can come and severely injure the mage who was standing there. This is also very important...wanted to make sure you weren't spawning and then letting them sit out a turn. There's no summoning sickness or anything like in Magic.

Feanor said:

Yes, spawns we seemed to play correctly. Thus spawning was one of the biggest threats to heroes, and their line of sight was top priority. The monsters in the room where just there to distract. Actually the power card "hoards of things" was an expensive, useless card since they were all dying anyway.

My whole world is rocked

Thanks again

Just out of curiousity, any idea where you guys got the idea that monsters are "stunned" when a door is opened?

There was something in the original rules that said "don't activate until next turn" or some such thing. Our questions were somewhat confirmed when we played the second quest (the giants down the halls). We thought it was impossible to get past the giants if they started moving down the halls too early.

None of the heroes were able to do any damage to these giants, and they could potentially sit in the hallway, blocking access to the rune keys for days. A boring game I know, but was possible.

Yeah, I remember the second Quest of the main game with the 2 Giants Brothers. I was Overlord and smahed the Heroes to pieces two times in a row.

Players went back home and thought for a week about what to do. They were quite unexperienced back then, but they figured out that a Hero needed to open the door and then, during the same turn, another hero with a lot of speed and fatigue would run past the Giant to grab the Rune Key for the whole group. I don't remember if he kinda sacrificed himself to do this or if he had enough move to active the Glyph and teleport back to town.