Hi all, I've got a couple of (probably newbie) doubts.

a) I sometimes read "profession" in the corebook, is this specialization? career? Is there any part of the book that explains that?

b) Choosing free skills. Are you forced to get the two ranks for free from the specialization attached to your career (the one you get for free) or if you purchase more than one during character creation, can you select these two from this last one? I am confused because I read the term "starting specialization" and I don't know if that refers to the one you get for free or to any other you purchase in character creation and from where you select two more ranks for free.

Thank you!

a) Profession is only used in fairly broad ways I believe. When you create a character you will choose a Career and a single Specialization within that Career.

b) At character creation you will have your Career. It lists eight skills. You will take a single free rank in four of your choosing. You'll then repeat this process for your starting Specialization*, but only picking two skills to take a free rank in. If a skill in listed as both a Career skill and a Specilization skill you could potentially take two free ranks of that skill, but you cannot train any skill above two ranks at creation.**

*You get a single starting Specialization. You can buy another if you want, but only get the two free skill ranks from your original.

**Corellian Humans can take up to three ranks of Piloting to start, but that's the only exception at the moment.

a) Profession is only used in fairly broad ways I believe. When you create a character you will choose a Career and a single Specialization within that Career.

b) At character creation you will have your Career. It lists eight skills. You will take a single free rank in four of your choosing. You'll then repeat this process for your starting Specialization*, but only picking two skills to take a free rank in. If a skill in listed as both a Career skill and a Specilization skill you could potentially take two free ranks of that skill, but you cannot train any skill above two ranks at creation.**

*You get a single starting Specialization. You can buy another if you want, but only get the two free skill ranks from your original.

**Corellian Humans can take up to three ranks of Piloting to start, but that's the only exception at the moment.

Yes, but on page 35. in Select Specializations, it reads: "If the character can choose multiple specializations at character creation (...), he must select one and only one Specialization from which to choose his two free ranks in two career skills"

When I read other examples in the book they seem to imply what you said above, but this little piece is driving me crazy. Is this errata?

It means you get 2 free ranks from the first spec you choose and only 2 ranks from that spec. Any other specs you purchase at creation you get none from. That first spec you choose costs nothing, any others you want at creation you have to buy with xp.

Yes, but on page 35. in Select Specializations, it reads: "If the character can choose multiple specializations at character creation (...), he must select one and only one Specialization from which to choose his two free ranks in two career skills"

When I read other examples in the book they seem to imply what you said above, but this little piece is driving me crazy. Is this errata?

I'll agree that is a little vague, because it implies you could select an out-of-career specialization from which to take your two free skill ranks...but after over a year of being on these boards, I think you're the first to find this The reason is probably that *hardly anyone* takes another spec at chargen, because the starting XP is best spent on characteristics. Characteristics drive the ability of a host of skills, and you can't boost them for a long time after, whereas you can usually buy another spec within a game session or two.

However, if a player wanted to buy an out-of-career spec at chargen and take their two free ranks from that, I wouldn't stop them, it certainly isn't game-breaking.

Yes, but on page 35. in Select Specializations, it reads: "If the character can choose multiple specializations at character creation (...), he must select one and only one Specialization from which to choose his two free ranks in two career skills"

When I read other examples in the book they seem to imply what you said above, but this little piece is driving me crazy. Is this errata?

I'll agree that is a little vague, because it implies you could select an out-of-career specialization from which to take your two free skill ranks...but after over a year of being on these boards, I think you're the first to find this The reason is probably that *hardly anyone* takes another spec at chargen, because the starting XP is best spent on characteristics. Characteristics drive the ability of a host of skills, and you can't boost them for a long time after, whereas you can usually buy another spec within a game session or two.

However, if a player wanted to buy an out-of-career spec at chargen and take their two free ranks from that, I wouldn't stop them, it certainly isn't game-breaking.

I haven't thought of the costs, but now looking again at them you are right, it's better investing in characteristics rather than in another spec. Hehe, I have this problem of reading all my corebooks word by word, that's why it takes me so long to feel prepared to start a game. More a curse than a bless, I admit it. Thank you!

Profession is the "Career" and "Specialization" is the talent trees.

The starting skills of a career allows you to pick 4 out of that list to give 1 rank in.But you gain all the career skills listed.

The specialization talent trees add additional skills.These additional skills, you gain as well,but are only allowed to pick two to gain 1 rank in.

Example: A smuggler (career) has the following skills.coordination,deception,knowledge-underworld,perception,piloting- space,skulduggery,streetwise and vigilance. Four of these skills you pick to gain 1 rank in.

Now taking the scoundrel (specialization) has these following skills.charm,cool,deception,and ranged light.

Two of these skills gain 1 rank in.

Now since both the career and the specialization have deception,it is allowed that a total of 2 ranks can be placed on this skill.( If you took 1 rank in deception for smuggler and put 1 rank in deception for scoundrel. ) No skill can ever go above 2 ranks at character creation.

Yes, but on page 35. in Select Specializations, it reads: "If the character can choose multiple specializations at character creation (...), he must select one and only one Specialization from which to choose his two free ranks in two career skills"

When I read other examples in the book they seem to imply what you said above, but this little piece is driving me crazy. Is this errata?

I'll agree that is a little vague, because it implies you could select an out-of-career specialization from which to take your two free skill ranks...but after over a year of being on these boards, I think you're the first to find this The reason is probably that *hardly anyone* takes another spec at chargen, because the starting XP is best spent on characteristics. Characteristics drive the ability of a host of skills, and you can't boost them for a long time after, whereas you can usually buy another spec within a game session or two.

However, if a player wanted to buy an out-of-career spec at chargen and take their two free ranks from that, I wouldn't stop them, it certainly isn't game-breaking.

it isn't game-breaking, but it is game-changing. why not just pick the career of the specialization that you want? what's the point in saying that you're a Hired Gun Assassin (just as an example) except to cheat on the free ranks allowed during creation? Just pick a career that covers the skills you are most comfortable playing and then the specialization that focuses on those skills? career skills have a significant effect on how you spend xp during and after chargen. maybe just use AoR careers as they shift the specializations over a bit here and there for that, or wait for Force and Destiny Beta at GenCon. i don't think that as a new player you'll be able to judge whether you enjoy this version of a SW rpg if from the start you house rules the first step.

Yes, but on page 35. in Select Specializations, it reads: "If the character can choose multiple specializations at character creation (...), he must select one and only one Specialization from which to choose his two free ranks in two career skills"

When I read other examples in the book they seem to imply what you said above, but this little piece is driving me crazy. Is this errata?

I'll agree that is a little vague, because it implies you could select an out-of-career specialization from which to take your two free skill ranks...but after over a year of being on these boards, I think you're the first to find this The reason is probably that *hardly anyone* takes another spec at chargen, because the starting XP is best spent on characteristics. Characteristics drive the ability of a host of skills, and you can't boost them for a long time after, whereas you can usually buy another spec within a game session or two.

However, if a player wanted to buy an out-of-career spec at chargen and take their two free ranks from that, I wouldn't stop them, it certainly isn't game-breaking.

it isn't game-breaking, but it is game-changing. why not just pick the career of the specialization that you want? what's the point in saying that you're a Hired Gun Assassin (just as an example) except to cheat on the free ranks allowed during creation? Just pick a career that covers the skills you are most comfortable playing and then the specialization that focuses on those skills? career skills have a significant effect on how you spend xp during and after chargen. maybe just use AoR careers as they shift the specializations over a bit here and there for that, or wait for Force and Destiny Beta at GenCon. i don't think that as a new player you'll be able to judge whether you enjoy this version of a SW rpg if from the start you house rules the first step.

There are going to be times where a certain Career sounds right but none of the Specializations for it are as appropriate as one of the out-of-career Specializations. Some examples we've considered included: Explorer (Scholar) when Archeologist didn't seem quite right and Hired Gun (Pilot) for a merc fighter pilot (Ace wasn't an option at the time).

it isn't game-breaking, but it is game-changing. why not just pick the career of the specialization that you want?

It's not game changing either...it's the equivalent of 10XP. And it could easily be the case that the character concept requires the class skills from a base career, but also the class skills from a non-career specialization. If the player is going to spend precious XP on a second spec at chargen to fulfill a character concept, I'm not going to quibble over where they pick their free slots.

Nothing says that the PC must actually be the career and specialization that you choose. If you have a character concept and choose a set that's skills and talents best fit what you can achieve, go for it and say what your character does when you flesh out the desccription.

For example, when the book first came out, I wanted a Rodian big game live trapper, so I made up a Bounty Hunter-Survivalist. He wasn't an actual bounty hunter or a member of the guild. Another example, nothing says your female Smuggler-Scoundrel cannot be a bounty hunter from House Renliss that uses guile and seduction to get close to her target.

Changing the rules to suit a player's idea for what they want and not caring cos it's the difference of 10XP? They have a mechanic for that: just add obligation. Otherwise you may as well just stat your ideal character and ignore chargen. I want to play with a maxed out character myself, but know that if I just did that it wouldn't feel as fun as having actually leveled them up over time. I know that I pushed it to an extreme, but I feel the same way about the extreme as I do the small give away, they're doing the same thing.

And over time changing something so small at the start of the game impacts greatly how XP is spent later on due to how Career Skills are being affected by this change. It compounds the problem I would say.

Nothing says that the PC must actually be the career and specialization that you choose. If you have a character concept and choose a set that's skills and talents best fit what you can achieve, go for it and say what your character does when you flesh out the desccription.

For example, when the book first came out, I wanted a Rodian big game live trapper, so I made up a Bounty Hunter-Survivalist. He wasn't an actual bounty hunter or a member of the guild. Another example, nothing says your female Smuggler-Scoundrel cannot be a bounty hunter from House Renliss that uses guile and seduction to get close to her target.

This is what I was trying to say earlier. Just stat the RAW for character create and role-play the character you want with the skills and specialization that accomplishes that goal best. the rest is just narrative.

Changing the rules to suit a player's idea for what they want and not caring cos it's the difference of 10XP?

I misspoke: there's no 10XP difference. There is no difference at all. There is no "cheating", mechanical advantage, or anything of the sort if somebody used their two free ranks in a second spec at chargen. They're actually at a disadvantage for having bought the second spec at chargen in the first place. I really don't get what the problem is.

It's actually impossible since you follow discrete steps during character creation (page 34). First you select your Career, then you select your Specialization (which has to be in your Career) and, only after doing that, do you spend XP. So you can't spend XP to buy a "first" Specialization because you have already chosen your free one.

Good catch, should have checked that first. It still wouldn't bother me if somebody wanted to do it.

The sentence on page 35 about free ranks in specialisation, that the OP refers to:

If the character can choose multiple Specializations at character creation (whether due to some factor of character creation or because he purchases an additional Specialization with starting experience) he must select one and only one Specialization from which to choose his two free ranks in two career skills.

This means that you can spend XP to buy a second spec without having to spend all your free ranks first. Otherwise it wouldn't be made explicit like this. Therefore, I think whafrog was originally correct. Since you're allowed to buy a second (and third) spec before distributing your free ranks, you gain more career skills (through the additional spec), where you can place your two free ranks.

This is not cheating, this is not game-changing or game-breaking, it's called strategic character creation, where concept trumps economical notions regarding XP. You pay 20 XP to get free(?) ranks in some skills that you initial spec don't supply for instance. Or to strategically find a spec that has one or two career skills that overlap with the base career, that none of the career's spec has one or both of. If it's based on "sound" rational choice theory or not matters only to the player in question. It's allowed. I think I'd do that if it made sense for my character concept - and I think some of my players would've made some different decisions if they knew they could do this. I didn't before now. So thanks for pointing this out OP!

EDIT: Of course, it's up to each GM and/or group to decide whether this should be allowed - as with any rule, if it breaks with your fun or concept of how things should be, throw it out.

Since you're allowed to buy a second (and third) spec before distributing your free ranks, you gain more career skills (through the additional spec), where you can place your two free ranks.

I don't think that's the case. It says a bit earlier, "During this step of character creation, the player may choose two of the four additional career skills and gain a rank in each". So you have to pick your free ranks during this step which is before spending XP.

Well, the book then contradicts itself, which isn't a new issue, but obviously the designers wanted it to be an option. Read the quote, look it up in the book. It's a direct quote, I'm not making it up. I think it's a fair strategy. Now, whether you want to speculate on if the inclusion is an omission or not, please do, but that would be speculation and meaningless in this case. The consequences for allowing this are negligible, nil, nada, except to allow players to make their character as they want to - and have less starting XP (and/or higher obligation).

Now, of course, the step description you cite says what it says, but it doesn't explicitly state that "during this step you cannot spend XP to buy a second (or third) specialization", it only says what you're supposed to do with the free ranks, but not that you cannot have already spent XP on a second spec to gain access to more career skills. We also know from experience that the book usually specifies what is not allowed, but not always what is allowed. It's open to interpretation, intentionally if I understand the many answers I've got from the designers correctly.

Buying an additional spec at creation is perfectly doable imo, and the free rank selection I don't view as a big deal, but if it's an out of career spec I would really not see it is as terribly smart move. 30 points is a characteristic upgrade and that is pretty hard to justify passing up I think. Maybe if it is an in career spec, or someone wants to be Force sensitive from go, or they want to grab the universal recruit spec for a non combat character right off, I could maybe see it, but not for out of career. Raising characteristics is too important.

That's a fair stance. But if a player wants to do it and it's important to him or her, I'm all for it. Do it.